Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: The Answer
Jenden wrote:
I highly doubt they will ever add more skill points or give combat professions crafting skills and crafting professions combat skills, its not very health for the life of the game. While giving people these things might make them happy for a little while, the majority of people will quickly become board with it, as it removes two critical aspects of the game (player interdependence and some measure of difficulty). Without these, you get players getting board very quickly, and a very high rate of turnover.
It's obviously a matter of taste. I don't want a forced dependance.
Some people will prefer to spend thier time, hunting, questing, loot gathering, etc. They will want to buy thier equipmenrt from others. Some will want to take the time from other persutes to make thier own stuff. Some, will want to totaly craft or entertain or whatever.
Im not asking for more skill points. But would like some more. Im asking for the existing DE skillpoints to be empowered with droid cert.
I think crafters and entertainers, Should have, like ~85% of thier skillpoints, express a combat balance. I believe it would be healthy for the game. It would not make combat in general easyer. It would just open combat up to more types of players.
And I don't know how you figure this will bore people
(also FWIW, I have not 'one star'ed you or anyone either. I think its slightly silly, but have 5 stared a few posts. Any meaning it might otherwise have is scribbled over by the poor of taste, or judgement)
Boeda wrote:
It's obviously a matter of taste. I don't want a forced dependance.
Some people will prefer to spend thier time, hunting, questing, loot gathering, etc. They will want to buy thier equipmenrt from others. Some will want to take the time from other persutes to make thier own stuff. Some, will want to totaly craft or entertain or whatever.
Im not asking for more skill points. But would like some more. Im asking for the existing DE skillpoints to be empowered with droid cert.
I think crafters and entertainers, Should have, like ~85% of thier skillpoints, express a combat balance. I believe it would be healthy for the game. It would not make combat in general easyer. It would just open combat up to more types of players.
And I don't know how you figure this will bore people
(also FWIW, I have not 'one star'ed you or anyone either. I think its slightly silly, but have 5 stared a few posts. Any meaning it might otherwise have is scribbled over by the poor of taste, or judgement)
Gavvot wrote:
hum, artisan is the only basic profession that has no role at all related to combat.
People don't need droid handler prof or even creature handler prof to have usefull pet. They can have faction pet. And that doesn't cost them priceless skill point, but easy to get faction point.
For the serious economic problems : you must be kidding right?
Weaponsmith can use their weapons, armorsmith their armors , tailor their clothes. That give them an economic combat related advantage. Besides, no one can be a weaponsmith/armosmith/tailor/droid engi.
What you want is the regular MMORPG crafting profession : sit there and click, but don't fight, leave that to me.
What make SWG intersting to me is the fact I can craft, and still have a use in the WAR going on.
Going to the 'do craft and shut up' path many other MMOR took will certainly make me and lots of crafters leave.
Right, but the argument that crafting professions need combat skills to participate in the war only holds up if you aren't able to be multiple professions. If all you could do was DE things might be different, but you can master up to 3 professions, the only way you'll be restricted to clicking and crafting is if you choose not to take any combat skills, don't blame it on lack of skills in the profession though.
I don't see where you were going with saying weaponsmiths can use their own weapons... they have to be certed to use them even close to effectively, and those certs are essentially your handler professions. In order to use a high level rifle, you need to be rifleman, in order to use a high level carbine, you need to be carbineer, etc. All the other professions you mentioned, yes, they can use their own product, but so can everyone else. What I was referring to is the assumption that it wouldn't cause any problems if people could essentially have their cake and eat it too.
Now, as I've said before, if you want DE to turn in to a hybrid profession thats your opinion, just remember that it will come at a cost, that cost being some of the present or future utility capabilities and potential of droids.
They are almost the only one you can sell.
To make them, you need GP module, that Master artisan only can build
So, to make any use of your DE skills, you have to be Master artisan.
Master artisan + Master DE = 149 skill points.
To not make money, not be able to fight, and not be able to make faction point.
ROI is,hum, ridiculous.
Yes, everybody can use armor, why couldn't droid build use droid to fight?
Yes weaponsmith need cert to use at full power their weapons, but without cert, thay still can use them. And do pretty good damage.
I'm not even asking everyone could use powerfull combat droid, I'm asking Droid Engineer being able to use combat droid.
Future potential eventually utilities of droids is far far far in the future, present is what matter to me.
Just look at the skill tree of DE. Big part of it is useless.
4 boxes for experiment and 'customisation' come on. Replace these 4 boxes by 4 droid handling boxes isn't hard, Dev can make it in short time, it make the prof usefull.
Basically ask for something doable in a short period of time give a small chance to have it. Ask for very fun and usefull modules like vehicule repair or translation would be great, but is not going ot happen.
I want a role for DE, it's a problem for you? Every single other prof has one. From chef to Musician. So if, possible fast to develop role is combat role, fine for me.
We'll deal with the future when future will be present.
Jenden wrote:
This would cause serious economic problems (no one buying weapons/armor/clothes/droids) since they can make their own without losing much in combat skills.
Boeda wrote:
Jenden wrote:
This would cause serious economic problems (no one buying weapons/armor/clothes/droids) since they can make their own without losing much in combat skills.
No. I dont think so. And here, there is somthing sort of like proof. Take for example, just about Every MMOLRPG to date.
Specifically, I have experience in Sierra's Realm. In Asheron's Call (1). In Dark Age of Camelot. All these have multiple charactor slots. In all these games I 'rolled up a party' Crafters, Melees, Mages, Ranged guys. A complimentary set of players to function as a team. Just as I would have in SWG. If I could do that in SWG I would be much more satisfied, Play more often. Have more people I know to play with (they would be SWG instead of EQ, AO, etc)
These games never had 'economic problems'. As I said not everyone wants a 'party'. Some are pure crafters. Others pure fighters, adventurers. More to the heart of the motivation for the 'SCS' issue., These games also had lots of people with multiple accounts. (not me)
If SWG allowed 2 or more char slots. In addition to the Jedi slot. But kept the lot limit. or maby a bit more liberal totyal lot limit per account. They woulsd still have plenty of multi account players while maintaining the kind of environment that encourages players to play.
Now thats a bit of a seperate issue. It would solve the DH thing. I could have a full fledged DE crafter as one char and a full fledged DH / combat adventurer in another. But I bring this up as an example.
My point to you is. That the allowing of combat/crafting abilities on the same char. Will not cause economic problems any more than multiple char slots. And it has been shown that MMOLRPGs can at least survive these problems. If there ever even are such, any.
Now you're arguing against the foundation of SWG. This isn't going to change, and there are quite a few people who prefer it this way. As you've stated, a lot of games do it the other way, if you want to have multiple characters and be completely self sufficient, then play one of the others, there aren't very many games where those of us who prefer some level of dependence on others to go to. Those other games did not have problems because they were set up for that, SWG was set up for character interdependence, you can't try to fit the square peg in the round hole, it just doesn't work.
Gavvot wrote:
only usefull droid you can build atm are BH seeker/probe droid.
They are almost the only one you can sell.
To make them, you need GP module, that Master artisan only can build
Speak for yourself, I've had no problems selling droids, and I don't even sell the BH droids anymore because they're not worth the time/effort required to make them. I get factory blueprints of the MA parts from some random MA that is walking around town (generally offer them 5k for 2 minutes of their time, takes me about one minute to find someone) and crank out everything I need in factories. MA is optional, it is a convenience, don't try to make it seem otherwise.
Even then, the devs are looking at the interdependencies and increasing them for the rest of the professions, so it really isn't an issue.
So, to make any use of your DE skills, you have to be Master artisan.
Master artisan + Master DE = 149 skill points.
To not make money, not be able to fight, and not be able to make faction point.
Even if you are convinced you need MA, that still leaves you with enough points to master rifleman/pistoleer/carbineer/TKA/etc...
ROI is,hum, ridiculous.
No is trying to stop it from going up, the argument is how to go about it.
Yes, everybody can use armor, why couldn't droid build use droid to fight?
Not quite sure what you mean here... but from what I got from it, yes, everyone can use armor, and yes, if they made it so everyone can use droids that would work fine, but you can't compare "everyone canuse armor"to "give combat droids to DE's only"....
Yes weaponsmith need cert to use at full power their weapons, but without cert, thay still can use them. And do pretty good damage.
And this was one of the suggestions I had for droids a while back, cert them to some form of a droid commander (or squad leader) profession and let everyone else use them (at much lower effectiveness, to balance it out with droids though you'd actually have to lower the HAM and/or armor if you didn't just take out the attack and guard commands).
I'm not even asking everyone could use powerfull combat droid, I'm asking Droid Engineer being able to use combat droid.
If you were asking for everyone to be able to use combat droids, I could understand that (though they couldn't be powerful), its the fact that you are asking for DE's to get them as a combat perk. Every combat ability you give to the profession is that many more crafting/utility abilities you have to take out/not put in.
Future potential eventually utilities of droids is far far far in the future, present is what matter to me.
And thinking only about the present is the quickest way to kill the future of the profession.
Just look at the skill tree of DE. Big part of it is useless.
4 boxes for experiment and 'customisation' come on. Replace these 4 boxes by 4 droid handling boxes isn't hard, Dev can make it in short time, it make the prof usefull.
And this is where it turns in to a simple dissagreement. I'd rather those changes go to utility, you'd rather them go to combat. More of us asked for utility rather than combat, which is why we're getting utility. We aren't going to get both, so there's no sense in shooting ourselves in the foot by taking the quick way out.
Basically ask for something doable in a short period of time give a small chance to have it. Ask for very fun and usefull modules like vehicule repair or translation would be great, but is not going ot happen.
It will happen, yes it requires patience, but I'd much rather see droids be the interesting, diverse group they are in the star wars universe than metallic creatures.
I want a role for DE, it's a problem for you? Every single other prof has one. From chef to Musician. So if, possible fast to develop role is combat role, fine for me.
I want DE to have a role as well, I'd just like it to be a unique role. We've got a CH, we really don't need another one. What we need is a profession that can really turn this in to star wars by bringing droids out to their full potential.
We'll deal with the future when future will be present.
I hate to tell you but it doesn't work that way. We are at a point of no return right now. We can go crafting, or we can go hybrid, whichever way we go there is no going back. If you'd ever like to see more utility modules, you have to get off the road to combat.
Gavvot wrote:
Jenden,
How did you start making money?
If you don't fight, it is not doable to have the money to be able to build droid.
I'm not against giving Combat droid to everyone, I'm even all for it.
But as I see there will be lots of argument to have, I'ld rather be able to use them, and that giving me the xp I need to master DE instead of pure mindless grinding, and money to maintain at least my house.
I'm also all for more utility.
But I don't see them coming soon as no one at SOE think about that before we start to yell.
In fact, what I want is : combat droid for eveyone, more droid, more utility for droid, more kind of droids, more droid everywhere, a use for droid for everyone.
As I'm a reasonable person, I don't ask that much because that will mean argue and argue and argue, and nothing done.
But something has to be done right now.
I want to also have a future for the profession, but I start at the beginning.
I've learn that talk about what we will do in 2 years is the best way to do nothing today.
I don't see why whe have to go crafting OR to go fighting.
We can do both. Not being the best fighters, doesn't mean not survive a chuba.
I actually made almost no money from fighting. I started out making money doing some delivery missions, then once I had enough money to buy hide/bone I sold bone armor (back then it was actually worth something), once I got engineering 4 I set up some harvesters and sold off some of the resources I didn't use. At novice DE I started selling mouse droids, and made about 95% of my money from that point on off of droid sales.
So it is doable if you don't fight, you can make money to build droids by selling droids, or if you have 0 credits and no resources, running a couple delivery missions. Its all dependent on your play style.
We can be both, but if we are we will be watered down versions of both. This is because as soon as one profession gets full crafting skills as well as combat skills (even if they aren't the best) something has to give. The last thing I want is for the profession to continue being the red headed stepchild of the game, and there is so much potential in the crafting portion that would be left untapped.
we won't agree I'm afraid.
How did you start making money?
If you don't fight, it is not doable to have the money to be able to build droid.
I'm not against giving Combat droid to everyone, I'm even all for it.
But as I see there will be lots of argument to have, I'ld rather be able to use them, and that giving me the xp I need to master DE instead of pure mindless grinding, and money to maintain at least my house.
I'm also all for more utility.
But I don't see them coming soon as no one at SOE think about that before we start to yell.
In fact, what I want is : combat droid for eveyone, more droid, more utility for droid, more kind of droids, more droid everywhere, a use for droid for everyone.
As I'm a reasonable person, I don't ask that much because that will mean argue and argue and argue, and nothing done.
But something has to be done right now.
I want to also have a future for the profession, but I start at the beginning.
I've learn that talk about what we will do in 2 years is the best way to do nothing today.
I don't see why whe have to go crafting OR to go fighting.
We can do both. Not being the best fighters, doesn't mean not survive a chuba.
Jenden wrote:
Honestly I don't see it as a solution, because I don't think we need combat droids. If we absolutely have to have combat droids though, the only way I can see them done is either a new profession or put into squad leader (though I don't know if the squad leader community wants that or not).
I think we do need powerfull combat droids. And I think most people do too. I think we should have a clear 'yes/no' poll on this. I guess it is not obvious.
If we must have a non DE cert for these droids. I think it should at least be a DE friendly proffession, stemming from Arts/E4 like DE.
Now I'm not all up on SL. Perhaps they do need some balancing advantages. If so, perhaps some of thier perk could have somthing to do with max number of critters/droids out, or whatever. But SL isnt the DH proffession. It would more intuitivly be a CH proffession. But its not that either. i dont think SL should be either. But as I said it could have some slight perk. If so it should be for creatures in addition to, if not instead of droids.