Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Who Wants To Play A Droid Engineer Who Can't Use All His/Her Droids?
Sodan,
I think you are missing the issue...
Very few crafters are arguing that if devs put new combat droids in the game, that DEs shoulf not be able to use them at all.
What most of the crafters are arguing is that if new combat droids are added to the game, EVERYONE, including DEs, should be able to use them based on a system of certifications. Basically they are arguing that if we get new droids, we want to be able to sell them as well as use them (in other words, no DE-only droids, because DE-only droids do not help us sell droids to others).
Some have derived various versions of this principle. I am in the crafting camp, but my idea on how combat droids should be implemented is this:
(1) All classes can use all current droids
(2) In every novice elite combat profession (pistoleer, commando, BH, teras kasi, etc.) the person gets a cert for a medium power combat droid.
(3) At novice DE, the person gets a cert for both medium andstrong combat droids (DE advantage = strong instead of medium droid)
(4) In every master combat profession, the person gets a cert for a strong combat droid.
(5) At master DE, the person gets the ability to handle 2 droids, including 2 strong combat droids (DE advantage = 2 strong droids instead of one)
Now as you can see, this is a crafter argument because all droids will be usuable by everyone (no DE-only droids). However, DE's get a definite droid use combat advantage.
So, no one is telling you that youshouldn't be able to use the new combat droids that are being placed in the game, they are merely arguing that the new droids should not be DE-only...
Daker-Naritus if you are in the crafter camp.... then pull up a seat for me- this is the first crafter camp idea that I have read that I loved....
- for the love of yoda... we are all the same profession, if we stay at each others throats we are going to never have anything done and someone back at SOE is going to be eating pop-corn and laughing very hard at us.... all the while saying I didnt have to pay price of a movie ticket to get good entertainment.
We stood together once and we got our appology... but now we are split once more and shreading any hope of having a unified profession. Yes even I fell down the dark road we all seem to be going but its time we wait to see what they actually do... but stand together, and fight together if they try to break our backs once again.
To program a droid what you have to have is the basic knowledge of how it does what it needs to do.
To be able to program a droid how to shoot something, you need to be able to know three things:
1) Basic physics. (Projectile motion and optics) To determine where to shoot.
2) Move targeting reticle to location to shoot at.
3) Pull trigger.
That's not that difficult for a computer. The things that the certifications are for is so that the intelligent being knows how to do #1 without killing themself.
Now game balance is a different matter. The weapon certs also help with game balance.
Now for Droid certs. Game balance wise it might help. But I don't see any reason for why it could be put in. Telling a MSE droid to go attack something or telling a Probot to go attack something are pretty much the same thing. And aside from that if some newbie is using the droid and fights something that's way to tough they'll probably get ginked anyway. So either way of looking at it, it doesn't make sense.
In the SWG rule engine, the ability to participate in varying degrees of combat must be earned. All fighter professions allow players to strengthen their combat participation abilities by gaining skill boxes, up to your maximum of 250 points consumed. The same choices exist for the professions that are indirectly related to combat participation (scouts, rangers, combat medics, arguably medics & doctors, etc.). These professions allow players to participate in combat to varying degrees, but in a different way than the direct fighter professions.
Then there are those professions that provide no implicit or explicit role in active combat. These are mostly your entertainers, (arguably) medics, and artisans. The progression of these professions' skill trees in no way enhance the player's ability to participate in combat. None of these professions improve your offensive or defensive skill modifiers, give you special combat attacks, or give you weapon certifications.
The droid engineer skill progression falls into the artisan profession category, obviously. In either the artisan engineering skill tree or the DE profession, there is not one skill box that improves the player's combat skill modifiers, gives special combat attacks,grants weapon certifications, or grants the handling of more powerful combat "pets". Every skill box in this profession progression enhances the player's ability to build droids.
Further, there is no foundation, at present, which allows for combat skill mods or weapon certifications to be placed into the DE profession. For example, you cannot adda "DE-only Combat Droid Certification"into the Novice DE box, because the player did nothing previously in the Engineering tree to earn a combat certification.
To explain this in a concise statement, attaining MDE involves no combat or combat-related activities to gain the needed experience points.
Every player is going to want to use combat droids, so chances are they will be CL10's, or, ironically, droids greater than CL10 would be usable only by CH's. The general profession progression certification idea (novice basic, master basic, novice elite, master elite) could work to a degree, but even then the droids could not be too much more powerful without devaluing professions explicitly related to combat.
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Do you mean by all of this that DEs should not be able to use their combat droids?
Correct,as it pertians tothe DE profession allowing unique combat droids to be used that are higher than CL10. The answer was derived.
In your original question, you qualified it with "not including skill-based droids like BH or medical droids". The reason for my post was to argue that combat droids are indeed skill-based, since all SWG combat requires the acquisition of skills to move beyond the basic combat abilities.
As someone who has played a DE since DAY 1 ... I can say without a shadow of a doubt that I would prefer DE to be pure CRAFTING ...
However currently we have the ability to use Probots, and I have no problem with that ... if they have a basic module we or anyone can useI have no problem with that. And if in fact thay add NEW droids that are even better than the Probot or special modules then YES they should require a skill in a specific combat tree to use them, just like BH droids. For instance a Flamethrower Comando Module....
I think they can strike a happy medium if they really try. But as has been displayed over and over again they ignore us till we have given up hope thenfinallythey give us a list of crap off the top of their head written hastily on a napkin from the local Starbucks that they will be doing NOT today, NOT tomorrow, NOT even next week, but two or more months from now.
They should prioritize droids in this way
1) Fix BUGS - There is a list with over 100 issues on these boards maybee they should read it...
2) Add New Droids - I have personally posted 4 or 5 right from the lucas website and there are NPC droids alread in game we can't make.
3) Add New Modules- Comando Modules, Drink Serving Modules etc etc etc .. I have posted my share of them and have seen hundreds of ideas on these boards.
As long as they are focusing on fluff over fix we are doomed ...
Sorry to use this thread as a rant but I simply cant take it anymore!!!
--Dolomite--
I was working to become a droid engineer, but after reading the posts in this thread I start to doubt. Not being able to use all robots you create sounds from a certain point of view logical (see a view posts backof the boeing exampla). But on the otherhand it is very frustrating. Now I like to know before I continue what I am able to use. Does anybody know if there is a list of droids that can be made and can be used by what type of character.
2ndSun wrote:
I was working to become a droid engineer, but after reading the posts in this thread I start to doubt. Not being able to use all robots you create sounds from a certain point of view logical (see a view posts backof the boeing exampla). But on the otherhand it is very frustrating. Now I like to know before I continue what I am able to use. Does anybody know if there is a list of droids that can be made and can be used by what type of character.
Don't give up on it yet. The main reason this thread and ones like it exist is because of a lack of concrete information from the Devs. We entertain ourselves and hope to influence the DE changes with threads like this. Everything I hear is that Droids will be very good after the changes are done. A corrospondant I know was very happy to hear I had hit MDE and has said good things are coming our way. He can't be more specific than that, but I believe him.
Drashk wrote:
Something that many people forget to point out is that not all Combat Professions are strictly combat professions.Ranger, Scout, Combat Medic, and Smugglerall have crafting abilities, yet none of them have Artisan prerequisties. Medic, Doctor, and Musican branch out into crafting as well, yet none of them have Artisan as a prereq either.
Hrmf.....that's a good point...
So let me ask this...does combat/non-combat matter (for cert. reasons)?
Specifically, what if you changed my proposal to substitute "any profession other than DE" with "combat profession?"
Put simply, the 7 basic professions (marksman, brawler, etc) would be able to use all current droids. All elite professions except DE would get a medium droid cert. at novice, and a strong droid cert. at master. DEs would get a strong droid cert at novice, and that ability to pull 2 droids at once at master.
So...the question...
Does this cause balance problems?
To me, I really don't think so. The only addition is adding combat droids to professions that aren't primarily combat professions. Giving a master tailor/master merchant ("Crafter") a droid won't hurt anything, because chances are that the crafter would die in pvp against a real combat profession, despite the presence of a helper combat droid. Chances also are that the crafter wouldn't be able to tank/kill anything major with the droid if combat droids are properly balances. I don't think this would be game-breaking at all.
Additionally, this helps DEs by further increasing the market created for new droids (to all players instead of combat players).
What do you guys think?
Ah, one other point...
I have 2 main reasons for opposing DE-only droids:
(1) It doesn't give crafter DE's anything new to sell, and most likely any DE-only droids would be the most useful and most sellable model; and
(2) To me, it makes no sense to have a DE-only droid. With droid AI, they are programmed to obey simple (and sometimes complex) commands from their master. There are no joysticks, no controllers, no handlers, and no skills necessary in any of the movies. The only skill required is present in the initial construction and programming of the droid (the DE part) after which no real skill is required (ex: it doesn't take an X-Wing Scientist to tell the droid to "attack," "follow me," or "stay."
Ok, STOP, don't reply yet, because I haven't made my point...
Here is my point: Just as DE-only droids don't make sense to me because no special training is required to tell a droid what to do, it also doesn't necessarily make sense to me that droids should be limited to only combat professions (especially to the exclusion of DEs). EVERYONE should be able to us ALL droids, because that is what droids are designed for (programmed with AI to be help anyone who buys the droid).
Now, I realize that this, if taken to the extreme, can be game unbalancing. Letting a brand new novice marksman, right out of the box, have a strong combat droid should not be an option. Unfortunately, this means certifications.
So...I encourage the following mindset (kinda rp):
Service droids (3P0, R2) in this era are VERY common. If you have the dime, and a DE has the time, you can get one. All professions can use these.
On the other hand, combat droids and much more rare. The Empire obliterated the droid armies, and DE's who can make the good combat droids from Republic era are rare. Consequently, it takes some experience and knowledge of the world before a character will be able to locate a DE who has the ability to make one of these droids, and it makes sense that a character wouldn't be able to accomplish that before they have at least enough experience to become novice elite combat/crafter/etc.
Along the same lines, there used to be HUGE numbers of battle droids, and fewer droidekas. If, for example, these 2 droids were the 2 new models added to the game, it makes sense that Droidekas would be super rare, and even harder to find. Consequently, this justifies a second tier of certifications, because only someone who had spent enough time in the world to master an elite profession would have time to find such droid.
Finally, DEs (of course all interested in the droid knowledge of old) are the gatekeepers to combat droids. They are the ones who have to figure out how to make them, they are the ones who have to find the right parts, and they are the ones who ultimately have the most access tocombat droids. Consequently, it makes sense that DE's would be able to acquire these earlier, and would acquire more of them. This justifies multiple droids and stronger droids for DEs.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
What do you guys think?
I think talking about all this is pointless.
/bow
Respectfully,
TheRealTK421 wrote:
Daker-Naritus wrote:
What do you guys think?
I think talking about all this is pointless.
/bow
Respectfully,
Ok, come on...where the "REAL" TK? You always have something to say...
