Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Sodan's Hybrid DE Proposal
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
SinjenRandall wrote:
Message Edited by SinjenRandall on 03-17-2004 06:45 AM
@ Sinjen...thanks for the edit lol
1. Currently to attain the proposed Droid Tactician (0040) a player must gain Novice Droid Engineer (39300 general crafting xp), Master Droid Tactics (assuming this will replace Master Droid Refinement - 307200 droid crafting xp) and Ranged Support IV (30550 combat xp). To gain the droid crafting xp requires grinding out over 2000 MSE droids. Are people going to be willing to do all that crafting to be able to control droids?
2. What if the Droid Tactics tree required combat droid experience? This could be gained either from crafting combat droid modules/combat droids or by using a combat droid in combat. However, this would complicate the implementation (require coding a new type of experience and updating several things to give the right experience) and would introduce problems with those that already have the third tree or are progressing up it if (when?) this change occurs.
3. A third option would be to retain droid crafting xp in climbing the Droid Tactics tree, but to also allow droid combat xp (gained by using a droid in combat) to be used. The problem with this is again implementation - it is different to the way every other skill tree works - but it solves the 'what about those who already have the tree or are in the process of attaining it?' problem.
Personally I think the second option is the most 'correct' in terms of making sense, but it also has the most problems. The first option is the easiest to implement but I think it slightly devalues the point of Droid Tactician since it REQUIRES a large amount of crafting.
What are peoples thoughts? Are these the only viable options or can we come up with something better?
EnigmaBSc
EnigmaBSc wrote:
OK. I've now finished reading through the whole of the thread. It's interesting to see how the final proposal came together from the initial very good proposal with other peoples comments. The 'what type of experience is required for droid tactician' issue has been touched on, but I think it still needs a bit of work. The issue as I see it is as follows:
1. Currently to attain the proposed Droid Tactician (0040) a player must gain Novice Droid Engineer (39300 general crafting xp), Master Droid Tactics (assuming this will replace Master Droid Refinement - 307200 droid crafting xp) and Ranged Support IV (30550 combat xp). To gain the droid crafting xp requires grinding out over 2000 MSE droids. Are people going to be willing to do all that crafting to be able to control droids?
2. What if the Droid Tactics tree required combat droid experience? This could be gained either from crafting combat droid modules/combat droids or by using a combat droid in combat. However, this would complicate the implementation (require coding a new type of experience and updating several things to give the right experience) and would introduce problems with those that already have the third tree or are progressing up it if (when?) this change occurs.
3. A third option would be to retain droid crafting xp in climbing the Droid Tactics tree, but to also allow droid combat xp (gained by using a droid in combat) to be used. The problem with this is again implementation - it is different to the way every other skill tree works - but it solves the 'what about those who already have the tree or are in the process of attaining it?' problem.
Personally I think the second option is the most 'correct' in terms of making sense, but it also has the most problems. The first option is the easiest to implement but I think it slightly devalues the point of Droid Tactician since it REQUIRES a large amount of crafting.
What are peoples thoughts? Are these the only viable options or can we come up with something better?
EnigmaBSc
1. If they are not, then they dont get the droids. Put simply, its not that hard and more importantly it exists in the game and requires almost no development...oh..AND it costs skillpoints.
2. Why complicate the issue and add more development time, just for realism's sake. It's a game afer all.
3. See 2
I'm not by any means trying to cramp your imagination here, and all new ideas are welcome as Sodan would no doubt tell you himself but we have to be aware that time costs money in Devland, so if there is a reasonable way to achive the desired effect of spending those skillpoints by way of existing game mechanics it seems more likely to me that this proposal will receive support from the Devs.
Thats just my view...which may be wrong, but I think not.
Somebody tell me something, why can the Devs not come up with a useful and meaningful purpose for droids and DEs??? This is such an easy job. Stop being obtuse and narrowminded and realize that direct combat is only a small part droids can play.
Make droids integral and required for crafting, for mining, for navigation when traveling, along with ALL aspects of combat! The possibilities are endless! Instead of stupid clothing and armor attachments, allow droids to increase various skills for different professions. For example, a droid to increase "to hit" % for Riflemen, a droid that places a small shield to protect a brawler, a droid that creates diversions to help DEs sample an animal for DNA, a droid that improves experimentation sucesses, a droid suite that when several droids are together, they add more bonuses to crafting skills, a droid that maintains a factory and increases production rates, a droid that aids in hunting and tracking for Rangers, a droid that improves surveying range or sensitivity for miners. How about general abiliites like auto-pilot when in a vehicle? or increased speed in vehicles when the droid is riding with the user??? My gosh, the ideas and possibilities are so easy and endless. WHY ARE DROIDS RELEGATED TO STUPID, USELESS TASKS LIKE AD BARKING AND HAVING R2 DROIDS INVOLVED IN COMBAT??!?
The Devs have shown no creativity or ingenuity with one of Star Wars' staples,droids and those who make them! I'm noteven a DE andI've been waiting patiently for droids to become the integral part they should'veplayed from the beginning. We are no closer to that than we were when this game came out. I have a bunch of freaking droid frames in my lab to "simulate" aworkshop environment where droids are present and helping with weapon crafting and maintaining thetools of thetrade. Why do I use up valuable storage spaces for items that donothing? Cause it's such an integral part of SW that aroom or environment without them is not truely "Star Wars"
It would be nice if the Devs actually made them useful and placed the importance Lucas intended them to have in the SW universe. 
Do we have a running tabulation on schemes here? From what I have seen it looks like the consensus is leaning toward MA holding a good deal of the requirements. I would like to reiterate why I belive this is a good idea, and how a bridge can be built to further empower a DE's options in calling and controlling droids.
1. I do feel that MA is a great requirement for any manner of droid handling. I wouldn't say it should be a key persay, but rather a great enhancement in CL capability. To cap it off in a fair manner I would think MDE/MA should be able to controll the most powerfull droid build that is possible. My reasons for this;
A. It implies a great amount of knowledge, said person is able to build from the ground up every aspect of these droids and thus should have the ability to operate and instruct these droids in a manner which could not be acheived with 0040 DE alone.
B. It is a good deal of skill points used in this situation. More in fact then CH, this could lean toward a great creature level being acheived insofar as most people can agree that a modern masterpeice of artificially intelligent, steel plated, blaster toting beast should be able to dispatch most creatures of a more fleshy manner. However, pile doctor and food buffs unto the baddest Kimongola you can imagine, we have a fight both DE's and CH's can be proud of.
Stratego wrote:Somebody tell me something, why can the Devs not come up with a useful and meaningful purpose for droids and DEs??? This is such an easy job. Stop being obtuse and narrowminded and realize that direct combat is only a small part droids can play.
Make droids integral and required for crafting, for mining, for navigation when traveling, along with ALL aspects of combat! The possibilities are endless! Instead of stupid clothing and armor attachments, allow droids to increase various skills for different professions. For example, a droid to increase "to hit" % for Riflemen, a droid that places a small shield to protect a brawler, a droid that creates diversions to help DEs sample an animal for DNA, a droid that improves experimentation sucesses, a droid suite that when several droids are together, they add more bonuses to crafting skills, a droid that maintains a factory and increases production rates, a droid that aids in hunting and tracking for Rangers, a droid that improves surveying range or sensitivity for miners. How about general abiliites like auto-pilot when in a vehicle? or increased speed in vehicles when the droid is riding with the user??? My gosh, the ideas and possibilities are so easy and endless. WHY ARE DROIDS RELEGATED TO STUPID, USELESS TASKS LIKE AD BARKING AND HAVING R2 DROIDS INVOLVED IN COMBAT??!?
The Devs have shown no creativity or ingenuity with one of Star Wars' staples,droids and those who make them! I'm noteven a DE andI've been waiting patiently for droids to become the integral part they should'veplayed from the beginning. We are no closer to that than we were when this game came out. I have a bunch of freaking droid frames in my lab to "simulate" aworkshop environment where droids are present and helping with weapon crafting and maintaining thetools of thetrade. Why do I use up valuable storage spaces for items that donothing? Cause it's such an integral part of SW that aroom or environment without them is not truely "Star Wars"
It would be nice if the Devs actually made them useful and placed the importance Lucas intended them to have in the SW universe.
I believe that the simple answer to most of your questions is because the Dev's want the droids to be unique in the game. They want them to offer something that nothing else can offer. Which basically means that increases of ability are right out, or at least that's the impression I've got from reading TH's posts and Runesabre's clarifications of some of TH's posts.
Please do the math for us on skillpoints. Also, list out the pre-reqs, etc.
Tarne_Monter wrote:
Just as a completely off the wall idea, what do people think about moving the Hybrid plan from DE to Squad Leader?
Its an interesting proposal -- espeically with the SL's "tactics" emphasis -- but it looks the skillpoints don't match up.
Tarne_Monter wrote:
I did the skill point check and it only matches the 78ish skill points if you pick up Novice Squad Leader. So it doesn't look very feasable. I just thought that Squad Leaders being able to tactically command "squads" that included droids made sense. But the overabundant cost of skill points throws it out. Oh well.
I LOVE IT!!! Perfect Sodan!!! 
This is what being a Droid engineer SHOULD BE!!!!
Please DEVS... Please listen and consider this proposal!!!!
If you like the plan, pls vote here:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=69111
Actually vote there even if you don't like the plan, heh.
TheRealTK421 wrote:
If we really had all believed that Certs were the best answer, then it would seem (per Woody's "one voice" initiative) that we should have stuck to our guns, despite the hard line the Devs took on Certs. They told us certs where difficult and time intensive to add. I don't equate that with "not possible". I equate that with "We don't care enough about you all to build the best solution, so try again".
Message Edited by Sundown6 on 03-17-2004 09:19 PM