Droid Engineer Archive

Now my response to your response :-)

I agree that any average joe should not have access to all the power items in the game. That is why I am not against the idea lootable enhancements. I like those things. They are something for fighters to loot and for crafters to use to make better things. It serves the purposes you described.

What I am against is that, as a crafter, I can not make all the guns without having to kill things. Give crafters a way to acquire schematics for all the new weapons that are within their means, as in noncombat for these noncombat characters. Have the schematics able to use normal subcomponents. However, using these normal subcomponents the weapons are inferior to what they could be. Then have enhanced subcomponents made specifically for these new weapons, like the DE-10 barrel. These looted components can have a range of stats but always better then the normal components. At the same time increase the types of enhancements that are out there. Have things that increase accuracy or lower HAM costs. There are many ideas. The same kind of idea can be applied to droids.

Doing things this ways give crafters access to new content without having to kill things or rely on someone else to give them access to new content. As it stands now, combat characters can go to the Geo caves, corvette or DWB any time they want. As a crafter, a non-combatant, if I want access to my new content I have to rely on other people. Where as the combat player may not be able to complete the dungeons alone, they can at least go there any time they want. We crafters should be able to acquire new schematics in away that is within our means and then make new weapons any time we want. We may not be able to make them the best they can be without help from the combat players, just like they can't complete the dungeons alone but can still go there.

For example, weaponsmith goes and buys the new DE-10 schematics. Its a reasonably good weapon in terms of speed and dmgbut only does energy damage. Now with the DE-10 barrel combat characters can loot the gun now does heat dmg and is AP1. Now it does a little more dmg then the existing heat dmg pistol and has AP1 which the FWG5 does not. Without loot, some players would want this weapon, but most would choose the FWG5 and the Republic Blaster. With the looted schematic the player gets a combination of the two guns into one. Everyone wins, the noncombat crafter can make new guns and the combat players can find loot to make new guns better.

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TuffGnarl wrote:

Yeah, this would be fun, this is exactly the kind of thing I want to see. Having something difficult to get, and I mean REALLY difficult to get, makes it all the more fun. I love challenge, and I'm betting that most players are wanting more of this sort of thing too. Also, if someone brought me such a schematic and components to make this Droideka droid, and I could only manufacture two, you could be absolutely certain if it was me making it for him, I'd have one of those two Droidekas for myself, and I'm hoping that every other DE would do the same.

And to this comment I would point out that a number of people who have come looking for WS to make them weapons from their schematics will not let the WS keep one of the produced items. They want the all to themselves. This turn the WS it into just a crafting monkey, assemble item and send them on their way. I can not experiment or try new things with the new schematic. He just assembles it and it is gone. Not my idea of a fun way to experience new content. But with my idea stated above the crafter could play with the schematic, find the best combination of resources and subcomponents to use so that when the combat player brings in the specialsubcomponent he knows what else to use to make the item the best it can be.

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Drashk wrote:

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TheRealTK421 wrote:

(Note to Drashk: Don't forget to bring the goat. )

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Only if yousqueeze Dough-boi in hawtpants. /shiver

Welp, my suggestion for loot items would be as follows

• Combat Protocol Droid Schematic - Same as an Adv Protocol Droid, but has Max HAM of 5k, carries a rifle for ranged attacks, and can be equiped with combat modules. Max Damage could be the following




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  CombatRating / 600 * 95 + 95 = MinimumDamage


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  CombatRating / 600 * 100 + 100 = MaximumDamage


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  Combat Surgical Droid Schematic - Same as an AdvSurgical Droid, but has Max HAM of 4.5k, carries ariflefor ranged attacks, and can be equiped with combat modules. Max Damage could be the following
  
  
  
  
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    CombatRating / 600 * 75 + 75 = MinimumDamage
  
  
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    CombatRating / 600 *80 +80 = MaximumDamage


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  Armor Plating - Loot Item that can be added to droids with more than one Armor Module Socket. Used in conjunction with an Armor Module, the Armor Plating loot boosts the Droids armor, put to a maximum of 80% resists.


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  Combat Accelerator- Loot Item that can be installed in a combat module socket. This module would double the effective Combat rating on any droid, up to a total of 600. This would allow it so that an Advanced Probot, or any other droid, could max out its Combat Rating at 600.


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  Socket Extender - Loot Item that can house 3 Droid Modules. Once placed into the Socket Extender, the Droid Modules cannot be removed. Socket Extenders can be installed into any Combat or Service Module Socket, with the exception of those within a General/Combat Module Cluster.

These are just a few ideas of possible loot items, all of which could be specific loot drops from Jawas and any Droid.

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X Machine'Zed X
Obsidian Dagger Squadron

A good debate is fun TuffGnarl.

Message Edited by Chavabegga on 07-26-2004 05:28 PM

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NitewolfX wrote:

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I realize that not every DE would have access to these new schematics, only the wealthy ones, or those with lots of friends, or multiple accounts, would have access to them. I'm not saying that I dont' want new schematics added that every DE can make us of without needing looted schematics, I'm saying that I want to see looted schematics as I've described before. I'm not against the devs introducing new droids that every Master DE can build, but I also want to see droids that everyone can't build. Droids that only the really wealthy can obtain. I want to see more Elite items, items that have a "WOW" factor to them. Like the AV-21 LandSpeeder. Not everyone can make those, not everyone can afford them, but when you see one, or have one for that matter, it makes it that much greater of an experience.

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I agree with Chavabegga on this one. I'm an average player. I don't have the guild or the money or the alt account to go about getting Elite items. As it is, I saw the +4 Droid Experimentation on sale on my server for 5 million! No way I can afford that, even IF I saved up for a whole year. So, I try to get it myself. What a joke THAT turned out to be, between the other combat-oriented PCs slaughtering everything in three hits,the spawn wait time and the buffs.

But I want it and cannot have it. Will I get it eventually? No. Why? Because I'm not a power player.So, what your saying is: Power players are the only ones that should get the items that have a "WOW" factor.It doesn't make my experience better. It just fustrates me and makes me cancel.

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So Power Players shouldn't get more than you, even though they put in more hours and more effort? What I'm saying is that we need elite items. I play a few hours a day, and I make2 or 3million a week easy, as a droid engineer no less, one of the least profitable of the crafting professions. You don't have to be a power gamer to get a Geonosian Sonic Blaster, you just have to actually WORK for something, and not have it handed to you just because you mastered a profession. If everyone can get something with a "casual" amount of effort, then nothing in the game is valuable, and you'll quit playing even sooner because you'll have everything of value that there is to get. Weaponsmiths have their DE-10 schematics, Armorsmiths have their RIS armor schematics, Tailors have their Crafting Apron schematics, and Chefs have their Mandolorian Wine. If you're saying those things are all IMPOSSIBLE to obtain by a casual player, then you're sorely mistaken.

I want these sort of things for Droid Engineers, I've heard alot of opposition to this idea, for no other reason than, basically, it not being "fair" to the casual gamer. This seems to be a nearly ridiculous argument to me, just because you're not willing/able to put forth the time and effort that other players are capable of producing, we shouldn't put in items or loot that would be a challenging reward for them to pursue? A reward that would cause other players to try a little harder, or play a little longer, in hopes of obtaining these goals.

I still stand firm that we need lootable schematics, and lootable components.

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Chavabegga wrote:

A good debate is fun TuffGnarl.

Nitewolfx essentially made my next point. While the Wow! factor is essential to what you want thats not what alot of people play the game for. They play to have fun and using these things that you want to limit to the powergamer is not fun. A large part of the players are casual players and therefore will most likely never have access to these things. They do not have the time to devote to it. Most of them are devoting time to obtaining things in real life. This is a game and there should not be an elite class of players. Just because you have the time and desire to do things over and over again should not mean you get to have stuff everyone else can not have.

So what should the reward for these powergamers be? I'm not a powergamer by any means, at least I don't consider myself one. I play for around 3 to 5 hours a day , and I can afford just about anything in the game that I want. If someone has the time and desire to do things over and over again, they SHOULD have access to stuff that not everyone else has! There are varying degrees of rewards in this game, of course not ALL lootable schematics should be difficult to obtain, but some definitely should be. Just because something is lootable doesn't mean it is hard to get.

One of the primary problems with loot is that for most things are completely random and you need a group of people to try and obtain something. You kill dozens of things and you walk away with 1 item while 10 people worked to get it. While powergamers have the time and mentality to continuing doing this until they get what they want casual gamers stillwant the item but do not have the time or desireto constantly do the same thing.

The game was not suppose to be about loot. The game was suppose to be about immersing yourself in the SW universe. Very hard to be immersed when, in order to get access to certain items, you need to do the same thing repeatedly. If you're going through the Corvette or the DWB mutliple times it should be because its fun not because you want to try and loot something so that you can be superior to everyone else.

Whether or not a crafters item is superior should determine whether or not it sells. It should not determine they have the credits and the reputation to be the guy who gets access to the new crafter content, ie new schematics. Everyone pays the same amount into the game, therefore we should all have equal access to being able to build everything. Our time and effort should determine how good our stuff is, not whether or not we can build it at all.

As you stated before, lootable items would require more time and effort to obtain, whether you get them by finding them yourself, or saving up the credits to buy them. Lootable Schematics should be superior to the average Joe's schematics, simply because they would be more difficult to obtain. Not everyone's endgame is based around getting the best droid in the game, but for those that do have such a goal, it should be very difficult to obtain, just like Mandolorian Armor, for example.

Edit: Woohoo!! Finally made Elder!!

Message Edited by Chavabegga on 07-26-2004 05:28 PM

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TuffGnarl wrote:

I'm getting too old for this.

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HAHA!! I know how you feel.

I agree that there needs to be loot and there needs to be something to mark your time and effort. However I think that those things should come in the form of better items, not specific items. With some effort thatuses the skill set of a crafter, ie no killing, no healing, but making stuff or mining etc, I thinkpeople should be able to obtain new schematics and then be able to make said new object using only subcomponents they can make themselves or that another crafter can make. Loot should be stuff to make items better. Those who put the time and effort in to find good loot can have really good stuff. Requiring crafters to find loot in order to make things is unfair to them. Some people may be willing to put effort in but do not want to put effort into slaughtering things time and time again nor do they want to be reliant on others finding stuff for them to use. Paying people for a piece of loot is acceptable, the prices people charge can be a little overboard but that is another issue. But even if the crafter makes the effort to acquire the funds, he is still reliant on someone else actually having that piece of loot.

Now, a crafter who puts the effort into a short quest that only relys on his skill set as a crafter, should be able to be rewarded with being able to make the new item. Then the crafter who puts in more effort to hunt down the good resources can make the new item and make it good. And then the crafter who also puts in the effort to acquire millions to by the good loot enhancement item or devote skills to combat is rewarded more by being able to make a really good item.

PLayers are rewarded according to their amount of effort. The more effort the better the item. As the system is now you have to put in the amount of effortfrom option 3 to receive the same reward as option 1. Either you spend millionsor be a combat guy to get new content or you do not have access to new content. With what I suggest, you put some effort in, you get the new content. You put alot of effort in you get the best of the new content.

A good comparison would be with combat players. Any combat player can make a minimal effort and go out to the Geo caves. He puts little effort into it and does not get very far or get any loot. But had access to the new content of the cave. A combat player gets a group together and goes and completes the Geo caves. They put more effort in and are rewarded with a victory and some pieces of loot. A combat player constantly goes to the Geo caves until he beats it and obtains every piece of the new loot. Various levels of effort all rewarded with various levels of reward. Just like my proposal for crafters and new schematics. The effort put in equals what you get out of it.

I would equate simply assembling a new weapon to the same level as simply seeing the geo caves. Both should require minimal effort but also yield minimal rewards. However, as it stands now, the crafter has to put in alot of effort to get that same minimal reward. He then has to put even more effort in to get the maximum reward, as in a really well created item.

My previous post was not well prepared being as I wrote after a long day with not much chance to relax yet. I think this one demonstrates my point a little better.

Also, what do you think TK thinks of us hijacking his thread? hehe

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Chavabegga wrote:

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TuffGnarl wrote:

I'm getting too old for this.

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HAHA!! I know how you feel.

I agree that there needs to be loot and there needs to be something to mark your time and effort. However I think that those things should come in the form of better items, not specific items. With some effort thatuses the skill set of a crafter, ie no killing, no healing, but making stuff or mining etc, I thinkpeople should be able to obtain new schematics and then be able to make said new object using only subcomponents they can make themselves or that another crafter can make. Loot should be stuff to make items better. Those who put the time and effort in to find good loot can have really good stuff. Requiring crafters to find loot in order to make things is unfair to them. Some people may be willing to put effort in but do not want to put effort into slaughtering things time and time again nor do they want to be reliant on others finding stuff for them to use. Paying people for a piece of loot is acceptable, the prices people charge can be a little overboard but that is another issue. But even if the crafter makes the effort to acquire the funds, he is still reliant on someone else actually having that piece of loot.

Now, a crafter who puts the effort into a short quest that only relys on his skill set as a crafter, should be able to be rewarded with being able to make the new item. Then the crafter who puts in more effort to hunt down the good resources can make the new item and make it good. And then the crafter who also puts in the effort to acquire millions to by the good loot enhancement item or devote skills to combat is rewarded more by being able to make a really good item.

PLayers are rewarded according to their amount of effort. The more effort the better the item. As the system is now you have to put in the amount of effortfrom option 3 to receive the same reward as option 1. Either you spend millionsor be a combat guy to get new content or you do not have access to new content. With what I suggest, you put some effort in, you get the new content. You put alot of effort in you get the best of the new content.

A good comparison would be with combat players. Any combat player can make a minimal effort and go out to the Geo caves. He puts little effort into it and does not get very far or get any loot. But had access to the new content of the cave. A combat player gets a group together and goes and completes the Geo caves. They put more effort in and are rewarded with a victory and some pieces of loot. A combat player constantly goes to the Geo caves until he beats it and obtains every piece of the new loot. Various levels of effort all rewarded with various levels of reward. Just like my proposal for crafters and new schematics. The effort put in equals what you get out of it.

I would equate simply assembling a new weapon to the same level as simply seeing the geo caves. Both should require minimal effort but also yield minimal rewards. However, as it stands now, the crafter has to put in alot of effort to get that same minimal reward. He then has to put even more effort in to get the maximum reward, as in a really well created item.

My previous post was not well prepared being as I wrote after a long day with not much chance to relax yet. I think this one demonstrates my point a little better.

Also, what do you think TK thinks of us hijacking his thread? hehe

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I realize that not every DE would have access to these new schematics, only the wealthy ones, or those with lots of friends, or multiple accounts, would have access to them. I'm not saying that I dont' want new schematics added that every DE can make us of without needing looted schematics, I'm saying that I want to see looted schematics as I've described before. I'm not against the devs introducing new droids that every Master DE can build, but I also want to see droids that everyone can't build. Droids that only the really wealthy can obtain. I want to see more Elite items, items that have a "WOW" factor to them. Like the AV-21 LandSpeeder. Not everyone can make those, not everyone can afford them, but when you see one, or have one for that matter, it makes it that much greater of an experience.

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I agree with Chavabegga on this one. I'm an average player. I don't have the guild or the money or the alt account to go about getting Elite items. As it is, I saw the +4 Droid Experimentation on sale on my server for 5 million! No way I can afford that, even IF I saved up for a whole year. So, I try to get it myself. What a joke THAT turned out to be, between the other combat-oriented PCs slaughtering everything in three hits,the spawn wait time and the buffs.

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TuffGnarl wrote:

Lootable Schematics: Not all of these need to be difficult to get. Some could be obtained by simple crafting quests, however, I'd also like to some that are next to impossible to get. For example, you could get a Super Battle Droid Schematic in the same room in the DWB as you make the armor. Most lootable schematics would be limited use, however, a few unlimited use schematics would be welcome as well, preferably, only the easy to get schematics would be unlimited use.

Lootable Components:These would only be required in the very difficult to obtain schematics, for example, a Super Battle Droid would need a "Combat Droid Motive System", "Strategic Droid Brain", "Combat Manipulator Arm Set", etc. However, not all lootable schematics would require lootable components, they would be optional in some cases. For example, a lootable R3 Custom Droid schematic would allow you to build an R3 droid with 9 Module sockets instead of only 6, and you could, if you so desired, use regularly crafted modules inside the droid, or you could use looted combat modules, that would give your droid an edge over a Custom R3 droid that only had 9 standard droid combat modules.

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Sounds cool.

But why do they have to be lootable? I'd rather see them done in a very difficult crafting quest. I even like the idea of the DWB,just hanging around they pull a DE into the group, "Hey! we NEED him, even though he only has a CDEF pistol."