Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Moving On To Combat Droid Certifications -- Who Gets To Use Combat Droids?
A droid handler class does make sense, but only if it was equal to what a ch can do. ei. If aDE could make droids that are equal matches to what a bio-eng can make.
Alternatively, spreading droid handling cl arcoss all professions might work, and would give a much bigger market. Start a char with 5or10 droid cl, and give +4 for mastered starting proffesions and +5 for mastered elite proffesions. That could give you a max of cl24-29. Playing with the numbers might give the kind of power the devs are thinking of giving us.
I do not agree with the implementation of a droid certification system. Let the high bidder get one.
And the notion that a DE is any "better" at "handling" a droid is nonsense. Would you say that a NASA rocket engineer makes better a better pilot because they built the space shuttle? That's nonsense.
As a future buyer I have to say I don't like the certification - even though i'd get to use the nastiest droids.
They have said repeatedly that droids and creature pets will be balanced against each other - so the nastiest droids will be CL 10. So thats maybe 1k HAM, Medium armour and decent resists with a reasonable attack at best. I don't see the point in limiting non-combatants to say level 5 droids. They are the ones who need them most (for protection on harvestor runs).
Certifications for higher level droids...well I might like having them but they won't add much offensively (its tanks you need when levelling, and once you're a Master any pet won't help much). I guess I support them bringing in decent, balanced droids which anyone who can afford them can use.
Interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing it. It seems a number of people believe that pets don't make much difference at Master level. Interesting.
EagleShard wrote:
As a future buyer I have to say I don't like the certification - even though i'd get to use the nastiest droids.
They have said repeatedly that droids and creature pets will be balanced against each other - so the nastiest droids will be CL 10. So thats maybe 1k HAM, Medium armour and decent resists with a reasonable attack at best. I don't see the point in limiting non-combatants to say level 5 droids. They are the ones who need them most (for protection on harvestor runs).
Certifications for higher level droids...well I might like having them but they won't add much offensively (its tanks you need when levelling, and once you're a Master any pet won't help much). I guess I support them bringing in decent, balanced droids which anyone who can afford them can use.
Certification is obviously necessary to avoid the imbalance we saw with "Pet Wars" before the pet-re-balancing. The proposed system of droid certification along every combat tree is a good solution.
I believe DE should also receive droid certification. So long as there is no experience gained for droid combat, then DE does not become a combat character. Why? Because if you want to gain any experience for combat, you have would have to participate yourself. That means climbing a combat skill tree and gaining the droid certification in that combat tree anyways. Therefore, being a DE would contribute nothing to your combat ability.
However I think DE must be able to call multi-droids. That does have the potential to make DE into a combat class. However that could be overcome by introducing some an equipable droid control unit. Essentially you must equip yourself with the unit to control multiple droids. This would mean that a DE who calls more than one droid at a time, cannot participate in combat himself. Therefore, even if his droids win the engagement, the DE would gain no experience, making it pointless. This would prevent players from stacking a combat with DE just to get the extra droid. Furthermore, since a high level combat character will still be better than the toughest single droid, it would make no sense for a player to withdraw himself from combat just to gain an additional droid.
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing it. It seems a number of people believe that pets don't make much difference at Master level. Interesting.
I may be misunderstanding the people who are saying this, Sodan, but I believe that said people are all talking about PvP. In Master-level PvP combat a pet of any kind is not much more than a distraction, so they're rarely used. Pets are still useful and used in PvE, but generally only in smaller groups. (If you have a large group you have no need for pets to be in the way.)
Kollos wrote:
I may be misunderstanding the people who are saying this, Sodan, but I believe that said people are all talking about PvP. In Master-level PvP combat a pet of any kind is not much more than a distraction, so they're rarely used. Pets are still useful and used in PvE, but generally only in smaller groups. (If you have a large group you have no need for pets to be in the way.)
Yeah, I understood it that way too. Strikes me that we should take it into account when discussing certs. Maybe the threshold should be dropped a bit lower if Master Level players don't need pets for PvP. With decay being erased from PvP, lower lvl PvE'ers might need more support. I dunno. Just thinking out loud here, trying to find the right balance on combat droid certs.
Hmm... I wonder if a distinction can be drawn between PvP and PvE during game play? I.e. is it possible for a Droid (or creature) to tell the difference and only function when appropriate?
Could we have more powerful combat droids if said droids were only useable for PvE? (Or PvP if that's where they're actually needed... I'm also just thinking out loud, as it were.)
They're doing something like that with AT-STs right now, aren't they? (I'm not an Imp so I've never even seen one used.)
Kollos wrote:Hmm... I wonder if a distinction can be drawn between PvP and PvE during game play?
AT-ST does this now.
Melee combatants have less of a need for combat pets as they themselves become more powerful, especially if all you can use is a CL10. However, ranged fighters could still have a use for combat pets to act as the player's tank while the player fires from a distance. A CL10 combat droid will be more valuable than a CL10 creature because of the added armor.
I really like the idea of combat droids being attached to bases. It would be a great way to add defense to a player base without spending faction points on turrets, etc. Droids could either patrol the bases, or be on standby reserve in a droid shed to be used when the base is attacked. A droid shed would add an element of surprise to the base's defenses, as the attackers will not know just how many droids are ready to spring out in defense of the base.
Eutock wrote:
Melee combatants have less of a need for combat pets as they themselves become more powerful, especially if all you can use is a CL10. However, ranged fighters could still have a use for combat pets to act as the player's tank while the player fires from a distance. A CL10 combat droid will be more valuable than a CL10 creature because of the added armor.
/agree
There should be other types of droids, higher level ones, but low lvl combat droids are a need for non-melee types.
I like the idea of droids attaching to bases and even cities as guards. Of course, I'd like to be able to tell the droideka to follow me as well. heh.
High end CH pets tend to be used as distractions and ant-pet tactics. They are useful if the pets are already out and you are really outnumbered. But, their main use is in PvE and even that is becoming more limited since the big "re-balance". I might suggest folks go to watch a PvP action in a city to see how various pets are used. If we actually think these discussions influence the Devs decisions, it would be good for us to see how our potential customers would use them. The best selling products are often the ones large numbers of customers think they need.
Which really brings me to a conclusion I made recently about the two different camps we seem to have. They are best described as the DroidSellers -- Those that want to make and sell droids and the Droid Handlers -- Those that want to have increased combat ability with droids. While it is possible to have a little bit of both, there must be balance or the class becomes too powerful. So, if DEs have extreme increases in combat abilities over other classes (i.e. 2 heavy combat droids vs. the standard 1) then other parts of the class' abilities need to be reduced. The first casualty would be the power of said combat droids. That means those who want to make and sell droids will have less marketable products. The reverse is true as well. If the droids have a wide variety of abilities and high power, DEs will not be allowed to havemore combat ability with them. And especially, not twice as much.
Under no circumstances should a DE have more combat ability with droids than a non-DE. That cries out for the nerf bat like a flashing light and foghorn. So, either the ability will be reduced or droids will be reduced. I would love to be an MDE able to call and control 5 Droideka's and 5 IG-88's at the same time while also being a master rifleman. That will not happen. I know this is an extreme look at things, but we really need to balance what we want with what we will be allowed.
The argument that DEs know their droids better than any others starts to break down when you consider extremely complex computer systems of today. As an administrator (the crafter of the server and someone who knows the OS), you do not necessarily know how to use the software that runs on it unless you develop skills with it as well. I have done this kind of thing before where I could solve any problem with the hardware and OS (eventually in some cases), but would be totally clueless on how to use many of the software packages installed. I could often solve probelms of installation and running the program, but did not know how to actually use it. Especially how to use it well. The combat abilities of a droid, as well as any abilities of a droid, are a combination of hardware and software. A DE should understand the hardware and basic troubleshooting of any facet of a droid. But, just an a non-medic trained DE does not understant how to actually utalize the advanced medical functions, a non-combat trained DE would have problems utalizing the advanced combat functions of a droid. As much as I would like it to be otherwise and be able to lay waste to a battlefield with my droid army, I can easily see why a DE would have no more combat abilities than anyone else and how a DE couldpossibly have less than them.
At no point whatsoever does a DE gain experience for using a droid in any manner. Let alone in combat. Unless this is changed, it can always be argued that DE is a crafting only profession since that is where 100% of our experience comes from.