Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Considering the future...
Experience and skill points are not the only limiting factors in the world... Implementing the proposed droid certification idea COULD be a great opportunity to add some really neat content to the game.
Example: Implement a plan with certifications in various professions to allow the use of better droids. For the sake of argument, lets say any player who has 3 professions mastered at the same time gets a CL25 combat droid, and a player who masters an elite profession gets a CL15 combat droid. These people have to spend skill points to get these droids, and the plan ensures that no player is going to get a droid that unbalances their combat ability (ex: a CL25 droid doing 50-100 damage every couple of seconds is not going to significantly unbalance a TKA/Pistoleer/Smuggler who can do well over 1000 damage per second).
Ok, so there is an argument that this alone is a little unbalancing...is skill points the only solution?
What if instead of skill point limits, you used content limits? Example: Although certain professions allow you to use certain droids, combat droids cannot be simply made. Instead they require 2 components that you cannot make or harvest.
The first component would be droid schematics. Since the empire destroyed the droid armies, parts and plans for combat droids are not easily available. What if you had to do a series of tasks for Nym to get a one-use schematic for a combat droid, which you then have to take to a DE to have them make?
The second component would be a droid license. There could be 2 or more "technology officers" placed in the capitol (or other towns) on each planet. In order to get a droid license you have to do various tasks for the officer, and then pay a filing fee to obtain the license. To keep people from farming these, the licenses need to be no-drop and need to be used in the taming process to activate a combat droid you buy. These are good for only one use, and if you tame a droid with it the license disappears and you have to get a new one to tame another combat droid.
The point of this process would be to fashion a series of hoops that both add fun and depth to the combat droid process, while at the same time both (1) limiting combat droids to those who "earn" them; and (2) preserve DEs ability to sell their services to everyone and have a better market (as they have been asking for). If you were to also make combat droids permadeath again (like they should be) this would be a SERIOUS limit on combat droids that allow DEs to sell their services without implementing DE-only droids that ruin the DE profession (through the influx of CH wanna-bees).
More and more I'm seeing the DH/combat droid issue as a red herring to keep customers distracted from the fact that nothing is being done to fix the zillion problems in the existing DE profession, and the complete lack of progress in addressing issues that DE's have been pointing out for MONTHS.
Misdirection, smoke & mirrors ... and no action.
Drashk, you're trying ... but I think the focus has to go back on DE. I think the loudest message I'm seeing from your community is not "no DH's" ... it's "no DH's until you fricking FIX DE!!!"
As somebody who wishes there was something worthwhile to buy from DE's, I agree with that viewpoint. DH will give me nothing to buy from DE's, because I'm not scrambling my template for some screwy new broken profession.
Hehe, stealing good ideas and meshing them together!
I like this so far...
Bonus to DEs in the DH profession...
Engineering 4 and ranged weapon support 4... that will work as prereqs...
Keep up the good work Drashk!
Cedig wrote:
What ever is decided I think the best compromise is that anyone can use any droid. But if that person doesnt have DH or the right Certs, all the attack and guard options for the droid should be disabled.
This should easily be possible... But does it make censefor aDE to make someone a Assault Droid (uber-attack droid) but then that person can't use it for fighting? Seems like a waste of credits to me... but the customer is always right they say...
Now, if you added lets say 6 combat droid chassis, and they have module slots for WEAPONS or regular crafting stations or med modules... then if someone wanted to pay the price... and the DE was willing to make it... then the Master Weaponsmith could have his/her Droideka with storage modules and a crafting station but it wouldn't be able to fight...
Now if they implemented the system like this... it would basicly be copying the probot but with MUCH bigger guns...
Any droid would be callable by ANYONE! but only if you had a high enough Droid Control Skill points would you be able to engage in combat...
Now some might complain that people would exploit this by buying heavy armor 40% to all resist droids with 5k HAM... they would whip these droids out... and use them as meat shields... as they pecked away with their republic blasters...
This sounds like a bad idea to me...
IT is a simple concept... IF you want to use a KIMO you have to be a MCH and buy a kimo from a BE... If you want to use a droideka... then you need to spend the skill points to use it... it is necessary to keep the game from becoming droid wars...
All the current droids will be usable by EVERYONE includeing the Rseries droids, MSEs, Dz70s??, and probots. There might be an Advance Probot Series 2 style droid that needs the Droid Control skill points but otherwise there won't be any significant changes to the existing droids... besides making all the droids work, and upgradeing the Dz70s and probots...
TribbleMaster wrote:
I still believe there are better ways. Yes they require work, but nothing is easy.
Here's some suggestions for you...
1. Spread certifications around the combat profressions.
2. Adjust MOB spawns to increase size, strength and/or tactics to compensate for combat droid users.
3. Add in ways of countering combat droid effectiveness (eg. EM Pulse weapons and/or personal/stationary emitters that limit droid effectiveness)
How about adding to this list rather than going along with the idea that, "DH is the easiest way even if it isn't a good idea."
Oh, in regards to rolling with the punches, I'm cool with that but that needs to go both ways. The dev. team put up DH - the community responded with certifications - the team responds with "No, DH". Where is the give and take in that?
I expect the team to work with us and not make us design a solution in isolation only to be accepted or rejected at the team's descretion. Do you see where I'm coming from in this? We have no real dialog here - we have DH, take it or leave it.
Let me put forth another idea that echos what many have already said...
If combat droids can't be added without a new profession, then let's wait and add other content to the DE profession. I would rather do without than have to live with something that isn't ideal.
Mobreen
RebelsHand wrote:
TribbleMaster wrote:
I still believe there are better ways. Yes they require work, but nothing is easy.You are completely correct there are better ways... But we need proposals...Come up with a solution that is1.) easy to code.2.) doesn't require redoing the entire combat system... from what i have read on the forums the combat rebuild is already being worked on right now! It is in transit... values can be tweaked but radical changes cannot be added now... they would have to be added at a later re-iteration of the combat system...I think the DH profession is the best compromise available to us at this moment... that isn't to say in 5 minutes someone will think of a better way to do it...I keep hearing this isn't what we want... but this is only the voice of a few that actually post on the boards... most people don't care about giving input... it is just a game that they are playing... if they don't like what the devs do... they stop playing...What would be benificial for all droid engineers is to stop complaining... stop bashing the devs... if you insult people then say give me what I want... do you really think the Devs are in the mood to do what you want? CREATE IDEAS! Good ideas... build on what has been previously suggested... if all you do is complain, if you don't offer anything constructive what good are you doing?Pretend you are on the Dev Team... post your suggestions... your ideas... be creative... think outside the box... if something gets struck down (aka free certifications to elite combat professions) roll with the punches and move on to the next idea...If you give a little here... and the devs give a little there... we will eventually reach a "happy" medium...And in the end if you don't like the results... hit SOE in the belt... stop paying! If all the DEs left because the changes were unacceptable droids would no longer be made... that would hurt architects, crafters, medics, and everyone who wants extra storage... SOE would have a "riot" on their hands and would have to adjust all the professions to compensate for the DEs leaving... So I ask which would be easier; to just give the DEs some of what they want, or to kill the DE profession?What customers want... BATTLE DROIDS way better than the probot and some are willing to loose skills to use a droid equivalent to a RANCOR.What DEs want to use their battle droids w/o too much hassle... and fix the broken droids...What SOE wants... to have a successful MMO that will last years, make them lots of $$$, and will make LucasArts $$$. This means happy customers!I say lets get something implemented that works, then RE-iterate the DE profession as many times as needed to make it successful... looking back.... hindsight is always 20/20
Ok, you've done half the balancing, but now what about the rest. Not every character wants to use a combat pet, I know quite a few that actively despise them. Now, if you put combat pet certifications in non-pet professions all you're doing is requiring them to use combat pets (which have nothing to do with their pforession) to be at the same strength (relative to the world) as they were before/should be. If you can find out how to fix that problem you could have a viable cert system, but untill that has been acomplished, I just don't think you'll get anywhere.
TribbleMaster wrote:
Hi RebelsHand -
Here's some suggestions for you...
1. Spread certifications around the combat profressions.
2. Adjust MOB spawns to increase size, strength and/or tactics to compensate for combat droid users.
3. Add in ways of countering combat droid effectiveness (eg. EM Pulse weapons and/or personal/stationary emitters that limit droid effectiveness)
In an effort to be creative and suggest one simple solution - how's this... Controlling a droid in a combat situation requires time and concentration and therefore that impairs of the player controlling the droid. Bigger the droid, more impairment. Maybe the player's speed is slower, maybe they hit for less. Combine that with some sort of droid counter measures and maybe the net result is that using a droid against a particular opponent is actually a hinderence.
I'm willing to come up with ideas, but I'm one person and I can't design this in a vaccuum. How about some input rather than tearing down the foundation of something that *CAN* work.
We're giving up before we've begun.
Mobreen.
Jenden wrote:Ok, you've done half the balancing, but now what about the rest. Not every character wants to use a combat pet, I know quite a few that actively despise them. Now, if you put combat pet certifications in non-pet professions all you're doing is requiring them to use combat pets (which have nothing to do with their pforession) to be at the same strength (relative to the world) as they were before/should be. If you can find out how to fix that problem you could have a viable cert system, but untill that has been acomplished, I just don't think you'll get anywhere.
TribbleMaster wrote:
Hi RebelsHand -
Here's some suggestions for you...
1. Spread certifications around the combat profressions.
2. Adjust MOB spawns to increase size, strength and/or tactics to compensate for combat droid users.
3. Add in ways of countering combat droid effectiveness (eg. EM Pulse weapons and/or personal/stationary emitters that limit droid effectiveness)