Droid Engineer Archive

Drashk, stop playing with your hats -- it doesn't work. What you have to say does matter. It matters to the developers and it matters to the community, there's no getting around that.

That said, I think you have been assimilated. Now DH is "the future", nothing else will work. We know this not because we've tried everything else and failed, but you've just given it some serious thought and made some SWAGs about what will and will not happen.

Again, start by creating the droid - developers, get those fingers flying - in the mean time we can argue about where they go. I say as a first step give them to DEs. You're assumption is that will ruin the market. My assumption is that DEs that care about combat will focus pretty exclusively on combat droids and not ruin the market for everything else. Who's to say you or I am correct? We've never tried it.

If the experiment of giving DEs combat droids fail, fine, lets talk about another method. Let's try a cert system. If that fails? We try something else. I've already suggested in another thread that there could be ways to render combat droids useless or at least impair them - EM pulse weapons. That's just one idea, I'm sure if we put out collective heads together then we can come up with better.


Do not give up the starship.

Your tone is one of someone resigned to the DH profession, not of someone who is trying to find the right solution. I believe DH is EASY for SOE and that's why it's being proposed. A nice neat profession that can be discreetly balanced (read nerfed) - and heck, most of the code exists in the BE/CH model, so they can just tweak that and get it out the door.

Let's not take the easy way, let find the best way.

Mobreen.

Another thought that comes to my mind...

Why can any player wear the best armor in the game from the very first day of their character's existance? Why are there no armor certification? If you apply the logic behind DH to armor, shouldn't there be an Armor Handler profession?

Likewise for tailored clothing, spices, food, drinks, etc. What skill points are used to be able to use these products? Are the not-so-creative minded devs going to introduce a Clothing Handler, Spice Handler, Food Handler, and Drink Handler profession?

Buffs, either from doctors or spices/food/drinks impact combat as much as if not more than droids do. You can get your own HAM so high now-a-days that tanking big mobs is possible. This also makes a newbie unstoppable when killing.

Just a thought that pops into my mind all the time.

-DD

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Drashk wrote:

I'd rather have Utility droids any day, but the Combat droid issue has become center stage for some reason.


Because all us DEs listened to the clients thatscreamed for them, that's why. We all should have just told them to get buy a freegin'creature and be done with it, so we couldwork on better utility droids.

Perhaps we need to explore that future too, ya think? If you want to truly explore all "views", this one needs to get careful attention.


This post is geared at trying to get people to look at the issue from many different points of view.

Honestly, this post sounds like it's geared as a way to convince us that DH is the "right" answer.

Many of us know that it's not. However, my guess is that the pet/creature system that the Devs have put in placed backed us into this corner.

Seriously...they left us with NO options a LONG time ago.

I applaud you trying to make something move forward here. I'd suggest that we all just give up.

If the Devs were interested in hearing our pleas (about not having a DH profession), you wouldn't be posting this....because we'd be talking about a different and better solution.

The fact that you're posting in the fashion that you are tells me that they have 'gotten to you' and that our future is now set in stone. No more discussion on any of this is required...just go let the Devs go work and stop wasting our time asking for ideas that they will neither consider nor implement.



There currently is a decent droid market, for those that know how to sale their droids.


Unfortunately, our droid market is....crafting and healing. I don't see that changing in the next 4-6 months.


Any additional droids that can be sold will only increase this market. I was trying to get the point across that adding combat droids to only the DE profession will not increase the sales market and will in all likelyhood will instead case the market to shrink even further.


I understand your point. You are likely right on allaccounts. However, I feellike thisnon-choice we now have is a byproduct of the pet/creature changes andhas NOTHING to do with us.We got backed into this design corner long ago...and it won't change now.

Iblame the Dev team for not having the foresight to see how their pet/creature changes would need to include our changes when the time came. Period.

To paraphrase the Emperor himself...'We have paid the price for their lack of vision.'


I'm just trying help more people understand this and help them to see past the shiny new combat droids.


It's good that you're trying to educate and explain. I fear that many disgruntled DEs (that are also programmers and IT people) will hear what you're really saying here.

It all boils down to...

We got screwed..............................again.

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/bow

Respectfully,

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TribbleMaster wrote:
That said, I think you have been assimilated. Now DH is "the future", nothing else will work. We know this not because we've tried everything else and failed, but you've just given it some serious thought and made some SWAGs about what will and will not happen.

Do not give up the starship.

Your tone is one of someone resigned to the DH profession, not of someone who is trying to find the right solution. I believe DH is EASY for SOE and that's why it's being proposed. A nice neat profession that can be discreetly balanced (read nerfed) - and heck, most of the code exists in the BE/CH model, so they can just tweak that and get it out the door.

Let's not take the easy way, let find the best way.

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Actually, I've been behind the Droid Handler profession idea for about 2 months now, but I've kept that to myself. As I stated a few times already, the reason that I created this thread was in the hopes that a few people will read it and think about what they are asking for. I keep using the hats because I'm trying to get the point across to people that what I think and how I represent the community are two different matters.I'm just trying to make sure that people aren't mistaking my personal views for those that I have as the Correspondent. I either make it clear to everyone that I'm pointing this out as a Community Member, or I stop posting my opinions. Thats the problem with being a vocial member of the community, ifI don't make that distiniction then people will begin to think that I'm posting my own agendas on the Correspondents forum.

Due to the subject matter of this post, it is my responsiblity to let everyone know that this is my personal stance and not my stance as the Correspondent.

Can't believe I'm actually supporting a proposal that gives any combat benefits to DE's, but I do think that, if combat droids are to happen, this is the way. The only balance issue you'd have to worry about is make sure a player cannot be DH and CH at the same time.... that could get ugly. Probably wouldn't be too hard to prevent though, just have a hard cap on the strength of pets you can have out at any given time.

That being said, as always, I'm still in favor of the "screw combat droids, they aren't needed and just cause problems" opinion.

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Jenden wrote:

That being said, as always, I'm still in favor of the "screw combat droids, they aren't needed and just cause problems" opinion.

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Jenden wrote:

That being said, as always, I'm still in favor of the "screw combat droids, they aren't needed and just cause problems" opinion.

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Thats the same thing that I'm in favor of too.

Well, Drashk, I like the idea of having experimental values controlling the level of the droids. I think that is a solution that allows everyone to be able to use all the droids (the lower level droids would have decreased HAM, attack vaues, etc), and still allow for the higher level combat droids that our customers seem to want.

I like the suggestion of giving DEs a little bonus to controlling droids of a somewhat higher level and getting the additional droid at master.

I'm still not convinced that there is enough "content" to justify an entire class (with skill point requirements similar to CH). I think that if there is a DH class, then it would need to have something else in it other than the ability to control high level fighting droids, maybe (*puts on flame retardant suit*) it could be some of the additional utility functionality we are looking for. Perhaps the "handlers" could be spun as Advanced Programmers, and in addition to being able to use higher level fighting droids, they could also have the ability to program specific functions in droids to give some of the utility uses that many DEs are wanting. Perhaps the DE could create the droid to have a communications module in it and an Adv. Programmer could program commands to allow the droid to query structures (like harvesters or factories) about their status. The modules could be leveled like the existing modules, and each level of module could allow access to that many structures (or something to that effect - going off the cuff here).

This approach gives the "handler" (or Advanced Programmer) class a little more depth than just being combat machines.

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Drashk wrote:

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Jenden wrote:

That being said, as always, I'm still in favor of the "screw combat droids, they aren't needed and just cause problems" opinion.

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Thats the same thing that I'm in favor of too.

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Unfortunatly I think its too late since they posted the "Droid Invasion" information on In Development. Now that everyone (non-DEs) have read it I think we've hit the point of no return.

-norax

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Drashk wrote:

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Jenden wrote:

That being said, as always, I'm still in favor of the "screw combat droids, they aren't needed and just cause problems" opinion.

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Thats the same thing that I'm in favor of too.

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Then let's drop all this combat BS.


Focus on making modules/features for non-combat roles. Let the combat folk just go get a silly creature and a their uber gun-of-the-day and go have their fun.

The great majority of combat types don't understand why a droid is useful even after I explain it terms a 4 year old could understand.



/bow

Respectfully,

"Considering the future..."

This is the problem. We're broken in the here and now. Give us more funtioning droids NOW. Give us bug fixes NOW. We're looking so far ahead that we can't see the fact that WE ARE BROKEN NOW. Fix DE first, then and only then, should we consider the future....

Drashk,

Thats a very clear and concise explaination of how I feel about this situation as well, and I'd guess alot of other people are starting to feel that way too.

This community seems to want it all, but fails to realize that the directions Droid Engineering can take are sometimes completely 180 degrees opposite of each other. Compromises have to be made.

I originally voted NO in TK's poll, during the original shock of hearing about the DH class. That viewpoint has changed over time, and now I find myself melowing to the idea of a DH class. Sure, it's a lazy fix, a carbon copy of the BE/CH association. Sure, it hops right over the DE's lack of content, lack of purpose, the things people have been arguing about for months, but it does have the greatest amount of potential in it.

But my main point is that the DH implementation looks bad in a vaccuum. In other words, prefaced by the underwhelming bug fixes posted earlier, the lack of modifications to droid UTILITY in the overall plan is what originaly turned my stomach, and I'd wager it turned the stomach of alot of other NO voters. If their 'Droid Invasion' didn't focus soley on combat droids, this plan would look alot better to more people. Above all else, the Devs need to be reminded that combat is not the sole enterprise of this game. Utility needs a reworking, needs new ideas, and there are plenty of ideas on this board.

It's time to leave behind the idea that a DE has the right to operate every droid he creates. It will stagnate the profession. Given another chance, I'd vote yes to DH.

I agree as well. Drop the combat **edit** and move on to fixing THE EXISTING PROBLEMS IN OUR PROFESSION!!!