Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: Droid Update!: The situation with the DE Hybrid proposal and CL10+ droids (04/02/04)

darkmane
Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:26 pm
#27

A quick question: Did they say how it was unbalanced?


We've been shooting in the dark, if they gave us a flashlight we might come up with a good proposal.
Alacrity
Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:28 pm
#28

There's been enough planning. I want to actually SEE a Dev plan. THEY should be the ones to come up with the solution, not us. We've tried and failed too many times now.

City of Heroes, here I come!



Amoon Darkflier, Elder Artisan, Elder Droid Engineer, Elder Merchant

"I find your lack of pants disturbing."
teshma
Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:46 pm
#29

Well I wish I could say the last 4 months as a DE was fun...but I can't. I've still got BE (which is actually fun and challenging, although lacking CH now due to the abortive combat balance that started with them and fizzled...) anyway, I'm off, dropped DE and if they mess up the "Invalid pets" any more than they have,I'll drop SWG as well.

What a waste of time and money.

See you all round ..maybe.
Anity.
KzinKiller
Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:00 pm
#30

Long-suffering DE's, I have only one thing to say to you ...


/salute


Your patience and forebearance in the face of overwhelming ambivalence and incompetence has been inspirational. It's a shame it didn't get you anything except the Fickle Finger of Fate.


Everyone at SOE, there's only one thing we can say as this news rolls in:


Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed ...


'cause you have no reason to be at this point.




*
The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them
Albert Einstein

CU-1 ... CU-2 ... CUL8R
Lonkley
Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:04 pm
#31






TheRealTK421 wrote:





Lonkley wrote:

So TK, as far as im concerned, go back to them and tell them to finish what they started. Forget the utility droids no one wants, and give us the DC w/ the 3 droids thenew profession gets to use.






You don't really want this, man. We've waited for any kind of work for so long that I don't think it's wise to have them change direction again (which they wouldn't do at this point anyway).






No, that is what I want. If DC was inevitable, they NEVER should of listened to us. At least releasing the DC w/ combat droids will make some people happy. Releasing patch 8 as described is going to make no one happy. There's no point in 'holding out for something better'. There is nothing better. So just do it and get it done with.How hard can it be to add in a new template? and droids that already exist? Especially since they probably had most of it done prior to patch 7 anyway.


Think about it. What advantage is there to waiting? What is going to be better? Im serious. If thats the plan, thats the plan, get it done.









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There is a special place in hell for necro posters
Icarus-6
Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:12 pm
#32






darkmane wrote:

A quick question: Did they say how it was unbalanced?


We've been shooting in the dark, if they gave us a flashlight we might come up with a good proposal.





At a guess (and I am giving my guess since we may not hear what the exact problem is) the devs still felt it was a situation of putting new certificates into existing trees. They have pretty much categorically said that they would not do this. In fact, this combined with the statement than any droids above CL10 will require certs has virtually assured that there will have to be an Droid Commander profession, so the cards were always stacked against the proposal.


That didn't mean there was no point in attempting the proposal, however. It just meant the odds against it were pretty long. A proposal that really 'wowed' them might have made them reverse their decision. Unfortunately this proposal, while it may have been good and even balanced, failed to wow them sufficiently to make them wish to retract their earlier statement.


This is just a guess, of course.






Tallin Rose
Master Droid Engineer
Starsider

At Tallin Industries we strive ever day to up our standards. Now, up yours.



Lonkley
Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:17 pm
#33

Its also possible that they simply dont want a large player base with DE's. Its easier to create a new profession with new bugs, than it is to add people to a inherently broken profession and have them now creating pressure to get it fixed. You can ignore less than 1% easily, get 20% or more and it becomes a bit harder.






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There is a special place in hell for necro posters
Malitevv
Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:19 pm
#34






Lonkley wrote:


No, that is what I want. If DC was inevitable, they NEVER should of listened to us.







We don't know that DC was inevitiable. Just because they eventually decided that they can't do it any other way doesn't mean they new that in January.


People seem to be assuming something different than what I assume when I hear of "balance issues".


When I read that the hybrid couldn't be implemented because of balance issues what I interpret is this: "we've learned the hard way that managing combat balance in a free-for-all multi-class system which has 30+ professions where players can freely mix and match any number of professions (to within the limits set by the skill point cap) is very, very hard. it requires lots of constant retuning over time as players isolate and then abuse loop hools in the interdependencies between the professions. We've learned that it is easier to tune things later if we work to minimize the degree to which the combat benefits from disparate professions directly "stack", and the hybrid does the opposite. Even if we could balance it on the first pass reasonably well. Tuning it later if problems begin to arise would be a painful. And we know from experience that it WILL require tuning later. Everything does."



---------------------------------------------------------------------
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.

T.S. Eliot
MachineZed
Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:29 pm
#35

That is too bad



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X Machine'Zed X

Obsidian Dagger Squadron

Lonkley
Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:37 pm
#36






Malitevv wrote:


We don't know that DC was inevitiable. Just because they eventually decided that they can't do it any other way doesn't mean they new that in January.





One would have to be awfully charitable to the devs to come ot that conclusion. The posts by Drashk and TH the week the plan was canceled that outlined the requirements to get droids above CL>10 were always highly contradictory to anything but a DC. The dev's told us what we wanted to hear and figured they would just do it anyway at a later date and hope no one noticed. They did the same thing with the crafting changes they put in (and took out in patch 7). They announced that plan months ago, was shot down, then was added to patch 7, where it was shot down again. Add to that their willingness to use blatant mispresentations (the last chat, wallpaper, etc..) and im sorry, but i just dont feel charitable.


As for stacking. This is totally different. Its not like knockdown or defenses which can be boosted from several different lines. There would of been no stacking, or possibility of stacking. whatever, speculation is moot.



Message Edited by Lonkley on 04-02-2004 03:40 PM



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There is a special place in hell for necro posters
Jenden
Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:47 pm
#37






Lonkley wrote:





TheRealTK421 wrote:





Lonkley wrote:

So TK, as far as im concerned, go back to them and tell them to finish what they started. Forget the utility droids no one wants, and give us the DC w/ the 3 droids thenew profession gets to use.






You don't really want this, man. We've waited for any kind of work for so long that I don't think it's wise to have them change direction again (which they wouldn't do at this point anyway).






No, that is what I want. If DC was inevitable, they NEVER should of listened to us. At least releasing the DC w/ combat droids will make some people happy. Releasing patch 8 as described is going to make no one happy. There's no point in 'holding out for something better'. There is nothing better. So just do it and get it done with.How hard can it be to add in a new template? and droids that already exist? Especially since they probably had most of it done prior to patch 7 anyway.


Think about it. What advantage is there to waiting? What is going to be better? Im serious. If thats the plan, thats the plan, get it done.






I don't think they really thought through the time frame on a DC profession... The time they would take to create an entirely new profession (and they obviously still didn't have all the balance/issues behind the idea ironed out yet, let alone have any code written) probably would have meant no change for us until july... I'd much rather take constant baby steps in the right direction than leap off randomly and hope we land on our feet, but thats just me. Guess I'm more patient then some people




Jenden Morn - Master of Droids- Tarquinas
Droid Engineer Blue Glowy
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
Groupy of the best band in the galaxy, Solar Flair
3D art of Jenden by Saeelwenea

THJahar
Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:54 pm
#38

Hell, no!
I know you've pleaded for constructive ideas, and less flaming, and that only a positive voice will achieve anything.
But what do we get for this structured and well thought out proposal?
Some childish and imbecilic response from the devs.
'We thought up DC and it's our idea and those nasty MDE's told us it was rubbish...waaaaaah! We're going to do it anyway so yah boo suxs to u!' (that is my perception)
I'm flaming outraged! There were NO BALANCE ISSUES.
The hybrid proposal Used the same skill point's as CH.
The ONLY reasons that this proposal was shot down was for spite.
What leads me to this perception of the dev's attitude? Is that there was no outline on HOW the hybrid would unbalance the game.
Communication?, bah what communication, by the sheer arrogance and pettiness of the devs, not to even outline why the proposal would imbalance the game speaks volumes on their ineptitude and earth shattering arrogance.
What ever happened to the credence 'the customer is always right' Your CUSTOMERS wanted the hybrid proposal!!!

And do not ever talk to me about balance again, the devs have NO PERCEPTION of balance, indeed, TK himself has inadvertantly pointed this out.
It can barely take a few weeks to become a master in a combat profession. And in the short period of time that a player may require a CL10 combat droid they Cannot AFFORD THEM!

Once that brief window of opportunity is gone then CL10 combat droids are useless.
TH said he may address the price/usefulness of the CL10 combat droid by trying to get the armour back.
We want it NOW, oh and BTW don't even think about NERF'ing CL10 BE pets, as they are perfectly USEFUL!

YOU THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM set the advancement of an individual at such a rapid pace.
Therefore YOU THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM must realise your mistake and up this ridiculously low CL10 cap.
If we are to have 'Droids For All' which is an overriding precept of the starwars universe then UP THE CAP!!!!
Only then will i be appeased, and shoulder the burden of working a profession that has no inherent usefullness or market. Whilst I wait patiently for a DC profession that no combat minded individual will want.
DigitalOne
Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:59 pm
#39



For those of us who put our life and energy into doing what we love dispite constant reminders of our inequity,



DE is where the collander of SWG has left me, now i realize theres nowhere to go from here, and nowhere i want to go either. Its not stubborness its exaustion. Seriously how far can a beaten mule go?


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