Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Greed The real reason why some want to keep DE a so-called pure crafter class.
People who would be grinding DE for the combat droid are not going to be selling droids. They will run missions for experiences, its far more efficient
They will grind MSEs and Adv Frames to level as quickly as possible.
Not a big market for either.
ok I know I am fairly new to this profession but I am going to throw this out there anyways.
I hear all of these arguements for and against combat droids and I find alot of fundamentally wrong things with most of them.
1st off, is the comment of the pure crafter is just greedy and that is why he wants to keep DE a pure crafting proffesion.
I would like to say.....Uhhh no I think not. I will admit that it may lower prices of droids a bit, but on most servers even with the influx of DE if we get super combat droids DE will still be fairly rare. I travel a decent amount and it took me 3 days to track down a DE with a skill I was attempting to obtain, and it was only on the the third box of that particular tree. If someone wants something they will pay what you ask, so if you wanna be greedy you can be, if not they keep their prices low. So greed is definently not a factor.
2nd off, is the comment of everyone other than pure crafters wanna make DE the next combat class.
That I also believe is very much not true. As a supporter of combat droids and as one who considers himself a pure crafter, I welcome the addition of combat droids. Why you ask. Because I HATE and I mean HATE seeing a graul mauler running around AH in the middle of the fricking day and the only droids I see is that NPC R3 unit that wonders from one side of town to the other. Don't get me wrong large critters with uber strength have there place, but what I want is to see there numbers evened out with some kind of droid. It is also not just the graul mauler I am talking about, because if you have one of those that means you put enough work into creature handling to at least prove to me that you like doing what you do. I am also talking about the 1000000 cowardly guerrecks and rock bettles that everyone runs around with. Please I just wanna see for every 1 critter in a town I wanna see 1 uber probot or (I can't believe I am going here) droideka.
3rd off, is the most wonderful comment absolutly no combat droids, followed by no solution to a proffesion that has only limited use.
This is what I want if I don't get combat droids. I want a slicer module that helps out smugglers, I want a buffing module that helps out doctors, I want some kind of module for BE (sorry not to familiar with this proffesion), I want a module that would help nearly any profession in the game. Also in addition to that I want DE experimentation to make a real good difference on my module, I wanna put 2 level 6 med modules in an R3 that will jack a medics abilities up so high he will be invaluable to his group, JUST as a medic. Does that sound like someone who is dead set on ruining this profession.
Now that I have gone through that I am going to list just a few more points that I don't often see but I am going to add in onto.
-PROTOCOL DROID are useless considering there function in the movies.
SOLUTION: I know I am going to get screamed at for this BUT, make languages unteachable without using 1 skill point per language, give us at least this back.
-DATE STORAGE modules are useless.
SOLUTION: Make them give the ability to store 2 extra missions, how that would unbalance the game I do not know but I really wish it would be implimented.
-2 Level 4 modules do the same thing as 2 level 6 modules.
SOLUTION: This is so truly frustrating for a master DE I am sure, to know that anyone who has mastered blueprints and made it to the third box of the first to tiers of DE can make the same thing that they can, with master DE giving all of the level 6's and since half of the modules have no use anyways, it really kills a level 6effectiveness, also if we had more modules that were profession specific we would have a hard time finding a non-master DE to stuff everything a person would want into 1 droid.
Well that is it for me for now, I am not a good typer so this took awhile to type and my fingers are killing me, but I hope someone would agree with me. In conclusion, I support combat droids and would like to see them but if we don't get those I won't leave....unless we don't get anything else like profession specific modules, effective protocol droid....ect....ect....ect. Thank you for reading my rant and I hoped this touched everyone in that cold steely place where you keep your own personal droid deep inside.
ArdenStarmariner wrote:
Let me cut through the smoke and BS and lay bare what the real objection are to the CH like features being proposed.
A desire to keep the numbers of DE's down and therefore the prices of droids inflated. The "pure crafters" aren't really concerned about a new influx of DE's attracted by the CH type features and some imaginary damage to the class they have cooked up. They just don't want an influx of part-time crafters who will most likely undercut their inflated prices. They aren't conducting argument here for the good of the DE class but are arguing for the good of themselves. They are more worried about their in-game pocketbooks than they are about making DE a good and fun class to play. Put what they are saying into a BS filter and all that comes out the other end is pure greed.
Well, I'd rather not be filty rich in-game. I don't mind competition and in fact, some of my competitors are friends and the competition is kept friendly. I'd rather have the option to take my character out of the shop now and then and get a break from crafting. Explore other parts of the game and thereby keep it alive for myself. I'll be around long after most of these "pure crafters" burn out always doing the same thing over and over and cancel their accounts. Have the CH option in the DE profession standing by will be a relief in times when I need to do something different. Have a little adventure and do a little exploring between crafting binges.
And too all those who say go train a Creature Handler, I say no. I don't want to. First off, I don't like creatures. I like droids. And I'd be switching back and forth too often to make retraining practical. Go play on CH on a different server? Sorry, no. My friends are all on Eclipse and I'm only allowed one character there. I want the versatility to do what I want, when I want with my one character on that server. And I want to be able to go with the gang without being the fifth wheel. With a DE-only combat droid as powerful as a master CH pet, I'd be able to pull my fair share of the load. And yes, I'll sometimes be out soloing. Cause sometimes I want to hunt when others in my guild are busy doing other things. I want the flexibility to do that too!
There isn't going to be any compremise solution here. The devs are just going to have decide between those who want more fun out of the DE class and those who use the DE class as a means to feed their greed.
Arden,
It's funny you can callpeople greedy who willingly dissapprove of giving themselves a perk that would helpthemfight better and make more money in missions. I think that just about every other profession would say we are greedy for wanting aperk only we can use, and not expect every other profession to get some kind of perk as well.Most peoplemight thinkwe are selfishbecause weexpect to be able to take Droid engineering and not suffer in combat as well. Theycould easily accuse us of wanting both pieces of the pie.
Let's stop with these stupid conspiracy theories. Everyone has personal interests at stake here, and so it's hypocritical to be name-calling.
ArdenStarmariner wrote:
Let me cut through the smoke and BS and lay bare what the real objection are to the CH like features being proposed.
You forgot to add something like "In my opinion" to this statement.
A desire to keep the numbers of DE's down and therefore the prices of droids inflated.
I'm not so sure that this is an issue, thus far. Just due to the fact that we might see some kind of special CL combat droid only for MDEs, do you really think it will cause a 'rush' into the profession?
Think about it...
For those that just want the quick method to a powerful pet, they are still going to go CH, if for no other reason than they've already started up the path.
And...to get the MDE 'uber' combat pet, just look at the grind ahead of them. Most of the players that would likely make the switch would research it first, find out the grind su....errr...isn't fun and will simply stay away (and stay with CH).
The "pure crafters" aren't really concerned about a new influx of DE's attracted by the CH type features and some imaginary damage to the class they have cooked up.
Actually, in my way of thinking, we'll see competition anyway over time. Both the Combat DEs and the 'pure' crowd will have to face it...whether they want to or not.If the profession gets work, people will shift over to it. That'sbeen the way of this gameboth inbeta and release so far.
They just don't want an influx of part-time crafters who will most likely undercut their inflated prices.
Oddly enough, I'm an MDE that's also a part-time crafter (part-time TKA) and I actually drive UP prices, everyone.
Please, let me say that again (and I hope everyone really hears it)...
I'm an MDE that's also a part-time crafter and drive prices UP (as should we all).
The reason for this is multi-fold and not really worth getting into at this time. However, it is true. Since I hit 4/3/3/4 DE, I've been ever-so-slowly increasing pricing on everything. Not one client, not ONE, has ever balked at my pricing.
They aren't conducting argument here for the good of the DE class but are arguing for the good of themselves.
To be fair, so are the people that demand the MDE-only combat model. We all have our decision on this. Of course, it's not our collective decision that counts. The Devs will ultimately do whatever they feel is best for the overall situations that the MDE-only might address (or break, for that matter).
They are more worried about their in-game pocketbooks than they are about making DE a good and fun class to play.
Any DE has to be concerned about their pocketbooks, no matter what.
For this reason alone, I think that the the part-timer combat/crafter should have the ability to use his profession to assist his chosen playstyle. He will offset some of the money he makes when running missions, etc., with what the pure-crafters will make by focusing on building and on sales.
Really, really everyone.
What this basically comes down to (when talking about credits) is a 'taking from the one hand to give to the other'. It only makes sense. If you're out running destroy missions for money, you can't be crafting/selling. Heck, if you're using a droid for faction missions, you won't really even make all that much.
Let me be clear (to EVERY level DE that reads this).
I make WAY, WAY, WAY more money through the production and sale of droids than I could ever dream to as opposed to combat. It's not even close.
Put what they are saying into a BS filter and all that comes out the other end is pure greed.
Well...maybe (a bit).
I'd say that what comes out is closer to a limited vision of gameplay that tries to keep another player from enjoying a particular chosen playstyle by enforcing one's one.
That has ALWAYS failed in the game. Every beta/release update or patch that I've seen that could do this, has...
It's bad news, folks. Don't allow something *not* to be added just because you wouldn't use it.
And, if you carefully read my message above (about the amount of money I make), you shouldn't really care that MDE-only combat droids might be added...since it takes your competition into the field and leave the droid sales to you.
Think about THAT for a minute...
Well, I'd rather not be filty rich in-game. I don't mind competition and in fact, some of my competitors are friends and the competition is kept friendly. I'd rather have the option to take my character out of the shop now and then and get a break from crafting.
For this reason alone, I don't have a shop. I used my preferred playstyle (wanderer) to my benefit. I have the ability to move with the markets and follow the buyers. I don't have to try to drive them to my shop/vendor. The 'travelling salesman' model. You cats that own a shop better watch out for the likes of me (and get me into the wild fighting with my MDE-only combat droid...to keep me off your commercial backs.)
Explore other parts of the game and thereby keep it alive for myself. I'll be around long after most of these "pure crafters" burn out always doing the same thing over and over and cancel their accounts. Have the CH option in the DE profession standing by will be a relief in times when I need to do something different. Have a little adventure and do a little exploring between crafting binges.
Yes...this is another pretty good base reason to add it. I don't think the pure-crafter guys realize just how much they are going to want this in the long run.
And too all those who say go train a Creature Handler, I say no. I don't want to. First off, I don't like creatures. I like droids.
If anything, we should be trying to encourage MDE-only combat droid use. I thinkwe can all agree that a droidworking thisis a lot more immersive (and true to ourperspective on Star Wars) than creatures.
And I'd be switching back and forth too often to make retraining practical. Go play on CH on a different server? Sorry, no. My friends are all on Eclipse and I'm only allowed one character there. I want the versatility to do what I want, when I want with my one character on that server.
The versatility to do what you want? You don't really have that now...nor will you ever in this game (due to forced player interdependence). I understand your basic point, however, and it's a good one, i.e. "I should be able to do this with my main."
And I want to be able to go with the gang without being the fifth wheel.
Man, that reason alone is a huge reason to add this. You never feel as gimped as when you're out in the field and unable to really do anything in battle. For this reason, I am the tank.
(Note: I'm a Wookiee MDE/TKA. Two interesting choices, huh?)
With a DE-only combat droid as powerful as a master CH pet, I'd be able to pull my fair share of the load. And yes, I'll sometimes be out soloing. Cause sometimes I want to hunt when others in my guild are busy doing other things. I want the flexibility to do that too!
This is the dependency-problem, plain and simple. Adding the MDE-only droid would only affect MDEs, folks...let's remember that. Will a very small handful of people using these really affect the profession that much in a negative way? Probably not.
On the flip coin to that is...why should we be asking the Devs to take the time to add something that so few people may actually use?!??
To drive traffic to the profession....that's why.
There isn't going to be any compremise solution here. The devs are just going to have decide between those who want more fun out of the DE class and those who use the DE class as a means to feed their greed.
I fervently hope that when they make this final decision that they give us a very well detailed answer backing up their thinking. This is no small matter for this profession, since it does seem to be pretty divisive (which I hate).
I still have to think that there's a solution out there somewhere that's eluded all of us up to this point. Let's please try to find it together so we can move on in a unified fashino (like we usually do).
/bow
Respectfully,
I know you've all been wondering where my rant has been, so here you go.
First of all, to say that I am greedy would be a joke. I give away half my resources and sell my droids at a very reasonable price. I have one primary reason for not wanting DE-only droids, so I'llstate it simply. De-only combat droids will cause an increase (even if it is a small number, it will be big in relative terms to the number of DE's currently). That is a good thing, the profession needs more people. Now, these people will come in partially because they like droids, and partially because they want a combat-pet alternative to CH. When they get here and find that there really isn't much in the way of combat (assuming there aren't about 5-10 DE-only combat droids) they will start asking for more. This number, plus the precedent already set, will just drive the profession further towards a combat-pet profession. There's a tradeoff though. As we all know, the devs can only do so many things at once and can only work on so many parts of a profession at once. If they have more people demanding combat droids it will be much easier for them to implement them than to fix old modules or add new ones (don't get your hopes up, relatively easy means we're only talking months, not quarters or even years). How many of you truly don't want any of the other modules working? How many of you would rather have a pet class than a utility class, because I believe thats what will happen. If thats what you want, then by all means, support DE-only combat droids. I personally became a DE to make people happy, and I make a lot more people happy with surgical droids, storage droids, and just random droids that don't even do anything than I do going out and destroying a lair.
Jenden Morn - Master Droid Engineer - Mos Espa, Tarquinas
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
Bravo!
TheRealTK421 wrote:
A lot of really well thought out opinions.
/bow
Respectfully,
To be completly blunt, a DE only combat droid would add nothing to the class for me, so why would I fight to have it added. So I can watch other people have fun, while my "perk" is wasted? Perhaps those of us that are just crafters would like a perk as well.
If there is to be a special droid, it needs to be some sort of customizable specialized item, not just a blanket combat droid. Why should I be forced into a combat role to enjoy the full benefit of my crafting class?
I understand the desire of some people to have a special combat droid, and thats fine... but dont force those of us that want something special and non-combat out of the deal either. I dont believe that's being greedy.
~Das-Ree
Dingzk wrote:
"This class is above the Artisan tree.. CH is above a combat tree. Case CLOSED."
How is Scout a combat tree? Case CLOSED.
Er.. Dont you have to fight stuff to get scout exp? (like, harvesting and traps? 
)
Would a DE only combat droid increase the number of people in the DE class? No.
Certainly, the numbers may increase slightly, but it's going to regardless. That will be the people that've been sitting on the fence waiting for the class to be fixed.
You all are forgeting one extremely important MMORPG fact, that has direct bearing upon the subject. One that Ralph Koster did recognize.
Your players will quickly Min-Max whatever you put into the game.
Which means that as long as any DE only Combat Droid remains Master Level, and is less than a Rancor or a pack of Greater Sludges in strength, There will be no influx of "Combat d00ds". It will be a Min, not a Max. And believe it or not, the bold statement holds true in every MMORPG every time without fail. Gravity isn't as reliable as that statement is.
I envision a lonely DEVcoding DE-changes at a computer at 4am saying "I wonder what this will do?"; while both camps of DEs (DE-only droiders vs non-DE-only droiders) are busy making clever speeches to back up their prospective rants. Ridiculous. (actually the thought of a DEV actually working on DE at 4am is pretty ridiculous too)
I died 3 times tonight on my NEWBIE planet just tending my harvesters.Thus, whenpeople say DE can be a pure crafting class, I have to say: bulls**t!!! If I get DBed 3 times on Naboo, (even had mymaster-level probot trying to pull the ether-spawn red mobs off of me) just trying to trudge to my fiberplast harvester, then something has to give. I don't care if it's DE-only or 4 year-olds can use them, we need something more powerful than the probot. SOON! NOW!! Something!! Hello?
I'd rather be cruising around my newbie planet with a nice combat droid, and let you all argue about a magical DE-only easter egg some other day. Capito? I'm cranky, I'm tired, and when I step back and take a breath, this is just about the most ridiculous show-stopper roadblock we could have thrown at ourselves. HA!
Chuckling to himself out of pure insanity,
*blink* *blink*
(Ok Daker...be nice)
This is not right...I'll leave it at that...
Jaerle wrote:
Jar'le turns on mask scent.
And if all else fails /burstrun 
Honestly though this is getting sickening. This is a player-run economy, what's wrong with wanting to make credits selling what I can craft? What's wrong with not wanting people potentially flooding my chosen profession when their main goal is to get to that MDE-only Droid? To say that those people won't affect the economy is absurd. They used to be customers, now they aren't. Their friends used to be customers, now they are not. The effect increases exponentially for every person that climbs MDE. Of course I'm concerned about that, any merchant would be.
I just don't understand why you feel you have the right to demand a fundamental change to a profession? If you are a DE you came into this profession knowing that there was no special DE-only combat Droid, yet you chose the profession anyway. Obviously there was something about it you liked enough to spend the points, and it wasn't that it was a mirror of the CH skilltree...
To use an EQ analogy, this request would be like turningthe Necromancer classintothe Shadowknight class....Don't delude youselves, just because we craft "pets" doesn't mean we're a pet class....it means we're a crafting class.