Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: I finally realized what was REALLY bothering me. It's us.
Nell2ThaIzzay wrote:
I agree with Straker. I mean, seriously... I love droids too. That's why I won't leave the profession. But in all honesty, it's a STUPID move to do. I *cannot* support myself as a DE. I am not a master, so I have nothing really to offer to the community. Whenever I ask if people need droids, they say they'll go to a master who can make them the best droids. People don't come to me asking for droids, because I can't make them what I want.
I have to reply on selling droids grossly underpriced on the bazaar to make my money. That's barely enough cash flow to support my harvestors and my houses. So if I have no money to support my harvestors, I have no resources to continue crafting droids, and I can't continue through the ranks of droid engineering. It's a nasty circle that I found myself in my first time around playing this game, and is the reason why I left in April to play City of Heroes [That, and the dev's BRILLIANT (sarcastic, if you didn't get that) idea to implement a droid handling profession, on top of saying that chefs and meds can buff, but droids having any function will unbalance the game. Stupid TH and his stupid checkers statement].
So sure, I like making droids... I am 2 / 1 / 0/ 2... I've been this way for a LONG time... I BARELY was able to build my first power droid last night, because I never had money to buy the needed resources to build it.
Meanwhile, other artisan professions are raking in the dough. Not at the non-master level. Other professions have the same problem. Until you're a master, no one wants to buy things from you. Meanwhile, I'm stuck grinding out droids to sell on the bazaar for anywhere between 3 - 5 thousand credits a pop so I can just get SOME kind of cash in my pocket to pay my bills.
Most DEs supported their grinds by selling resources. As a Novice Rifleman, you have a better option...see below
And Straker, I'd honestly like to know where these 32k missions are at, because I have novice rifleman also, and the only missions I can find pay about 1500 a pop. And now all of a sudden, the Imperial missions I run continue to spawn more and more Rebels and I just get overwhelmed and I can't even run missions anymore. So much for being able to support myself in the slightest.
Go to Coronet and get buffed...then go to Dantooine and join a solo group. You'll be pulling high level missions for around 27-32K a pop. It's probably a good idea to take a friend or two until you get more Rifleman skills, but you can make money from solo groups faster than any other method in the game.
Just because you like droids doesn't mean you should be screwed out of money. I'm not worried about being a millionaire in this game. I just want to be able to know that I can have enough money to be able to pay off all of my houses, harvestors, and vendors,so that I can support my crafting and be able to advance through the ranks. I'd also like to have some extra cash on me... so if I need to buy some new clothes, furniture, weapons, or armor, I can without having to worry about breaking the bank.
I hear some DE's talking about "Oh we can make money". Tell me how, because I have yet to find it. I'm completely screwed because I haven't been DE long enough to be a master yet... so I have no market for my product whatsoever. How is that fair?
Nell2ThaIzzay wrote:
I agree with Straker. I mean, seriously... I love droids too. That's why I won't leave the profession. But in all honesty, it's a STUPID move to do. I *cannot* support myself as a DE. I am not a master, so I have nothing really to offer to the community. Whenever I ask if people need droids, they say they'll go to a master who can make them the best droids. People don't come to me asking for droids, because I can't make them what I want.
I have to reply on selling droids grossly underpriced on the bazaar to make my money. That's barely enough cash flow to support my harvestors and my houses. So if I have no money to support my harvestors, I have no resources to continue crafting droids, and I can't continue through the ranks of droid engineering. It's a nasty circle that I found myself in my first time around playing this game, and is the reason why I left in April to play City of Heroes [That, and the dev's BRILLIANT (sarcastic, if you didn't get that) idea to implement a droid handling profession, on top of saying that chefs and meds can buff, but droids having any function will unbalance the game. Stupid TH and his stupid checkers statement].
So sure, I like making droids... I am 2 / 1 / 0/ 2... I've been this way for a LONG time... I BARELY was able to build my first power droid last night, because I never had money to buy the needed resources to build it.
Meanwhile, other artisan professions are raking in the dough. Meanwhile, I'm stuck grinding out droids to sell on the bazaar for anywhere between 3 - 5 thousand credits a pop so I can just get SOME kind of cash in my pocket to pay my bills.
And Straker, I'd honestly like to know where these 32k missions are at, because I have novice rifleman also, and the only missions I can find pay about 1500 a pop. And now all of a sudden, the Imperial missions I run continue to spawn more and more Rebels and I just get overwhelmed and I can't even run missions anymore. So much for being able to support myself in the slightest.
Just because you like droids doesn't mean you should be screwed out of money. I'm not worried about being a millionaire in this game. I just want to be able to know that I can have enough money to be able to pay off all of my houses, harvestors, and vendors,so that I can support my crafting and be able to advance through the ranks. I'd also like to have some extra cash on me... so if I need to buy some new clothes, furniture, weapons, or armor, I can without having to worry about breaking the bank.
I hear some DE's talking about "Oh we can make money". Tell me how, because I have yet to find it. I'm completely screwed because I haven't been DE long enough to be a master yet... so I have no market for my product whatsoever. How is that fair?
Nell, the 32k Missions are on Dant, with the Jantas and mokks, you can also get them on Dath. You need to be grouped with some Masters though, and/or have pets in the group.
You CAN make money on Droids, don't get me wrong. For the longest time I was the only person supplying out entire server with the high end Droids. A HUGE part of my profits went to buying resources though to keep in business.
You can make money with Droids, bu the problem is that "making money" isn't enough. You need to be making as much as everybody else or you fall further behind.
GnomeAd wrote:
Straker_Atrella wrote:
There are some SW parts that are already needed to fly. You do realise that Shipwrights will make a million plus per ship probably, and each person will want 5 ships. Do you really think that somebody paying 1 million for a ship will balk at paying 20k, or even 50k for a FC? I don't.
So we are thinking (probably correctly) that at first ships are going to go for millions. But that doesn't justify screwing them over by making droids mandatory. Put yourself in their shoes and ask yourself if it's fair.
Going to chime in here. I don't agreewith making FC/Droid use manditory to fly. I do think that making them manditory to travel through hyperspace
GnomeAd wrote:
Straker_Atrella wrote:
There are some SW parts that are already needed to fly. You do realise that Shipwrights will make a million plus per ship probably, and each person will want 5 ships. Do you really think that somebody paying 1 million for a ship will balk at paying 20k, or even 50k for a FC? I don't.
So we are thinking (probably correctly) that at first ships are going to go for millions. But that doesn't justify screwing them over by making droids mandatory. Put yourself in their shoes and ask yourself if it's fair.
Last I checked Shipwright parts decayed. They get damaged and need to be replaced. This was broken for a while, but from what I understand it works now.
Yep, they decay and can be repaired. But it's their profession, not ours. Should we treat Droids in ships and FCs like ship components? OK, but that just means they'll be repaired by NPCs and not us. How does that help DEs?
Why? Because then you wouldn't see them selling for 1k obviously. As long as something is simple, and quality doesn't matter, the money will always be low. CPU profit doesn't matter, it's about total money. If they were more complex, you would be able to get more money from them.
Most players are only going to be using them for a day or two anyway. The problem is one of supply and demand. The droid commands are not necessary for piloting a ship (nor should they be) and, inmy opinion, are pretty worthless at lower levels anyway. Why would anyone pay a lot of money just to be able to shut their droids up? Even at higher levels, they don't really help much. If the price gets too high, players will just not buy them and do without.
GnomeAd wrote:
Straker_Atrella wrote:
1. You need a Droid or FC to fly all but the starter ship. You can't fly without one.
Do you really think that's fair to Shipwrights? How would you feel if we had to buy combat modules from Weaponsmiths? I know we have more interdependencies than other professions. Would you wish something worse on Shipwrights?
I don't wish worse on the shipwrights, but I wish the Devs hadn't backed off interdependency 100%. I feel a certain reasonable amount is fine and healthy. I think the dependency at issue here isn't Shipwright/DE its Pilot/DE, and Drashk hit it right on the head. Flying through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, and a computer should be mandatory.
In addition, I think making shipwright 100% independent was a step in the wrong direction. I was hoping the schemas would change from Beta to Live (who knows they may have) and that certain parts become required. Power Cores for Reactors? Droid Brains to control Droid Interfaces? not unreasonable.
Don't for a minute think I like our changes though Straker, a low payoff item that I have to teach people how to use is another headache I didnt want. I dread the "make me an astromech" tells from people who dont need them already. Yet, I'm sort of taking Drashk's POV on this (or your seeming POV, I don't want to put words in your mouth, and if im wrong tell me) basically taking our fights when we can, and not rocking the boat at a time when it won't do any good. They are totally focused on getting the space game going at the moment, probably too juiced on caffeine to understand a long winded Economics argument.
I'm totally onboard pushing for FC required Hyperspace travel, but protesting paint kits at 2000 calls and other things I object to just doenst seem like it will get us anywhere at present. Don't call it apathy, call it harboring our energy.
wow ...all so true 
psikobunny wrote:
I'm totally onboard pushing for FC required Hyperspace travel, but protesting paint kits at 2000 calls and other things I object to just doenst seem like it will get us anywhere at present. Don't call it apathy, call it harboring our energy.
I totally agree that the paint kit changes to 2000 calls is a poor decision, and also that objecting will get us nowhere right now. I'm with you, conserving energy to push for things to be reconsidered at a later date, when the #1 focus with the Devsisn't getting JTL out of the door and running correctly with SWG. Keep at 'em, to be sure. Because there are things that aren't right about all of this.
I can honestly say that I rarely sold customization kits when they lasted about 20 calls. At the 200 call mark, I actually saw an upswing. How consumers will take a 2000 call customization kit is still up in the air for me. Most of my guildmates agree it was a pretty dumb move, that 200 calls was more than sufficient.
Oh well. Yes, we lost another opportunity to make some good money on a regular basis. That can all be tweaked later, after they work out some bugs and we get some attention directed our way. As for now, I'm banking on the "newness" factor of things, and selling droids like there's no tomorrow (shipwright and pilot droids), and FC's are my next run.
Warryyr wrote:
psikobunny wrote:
I'm totally onboard pushing for FC required Hyperspace travel, but protesting paint kits at 2000 calls and other things I object to just doenst seem like it will get us anywhere at present. Don't call it apathy, call it harboring our energy.
I totally agree that the paint kit changes to 2000 calls is a poor decision, and also that objecting will get us nowhere right now. I'm with you, conserving energy to push for things to be reconsidered at a later date, when the #1 focus with the Devsisn't getting JTL out of the door and running correctly with SWG. Keep at 'em, to be sure. Because there are things that aren't right about all of this.
I can honestly say that I rarely sold customization kits when they lasted about 20 calls. At the 200 call mark, I actually saw an upswing. How consumers will take a 2000 call customization kit is still up in the air for me. Most of my guildmates agree it was a pretty dumb move, that 200 calls was more than sufficient.
Oh well. Yes, we lost another opportunity to make some good money on a regular basis. That can all be tweaked later, after they work out some bugs and we get some attention directed our way. As for now, I'm banking on the "newness" factor of things, and selling droids like there's no tomorrow (shipwright and pilot droids), and FC's are my next run.
I'm agreeing with what your saying about picking battles, yet here is my thinking on the matter.
Right now there are Programers and Developers "dedicated," to JTL. They are going to be dealing with JTL for a certain period of time, before they are moved somewhere else. Now obviously bugs and balance are (and should be,) their main focus.
However what if the developers (for whatever reason,) really don't understand what a PERFECT opportunity they missed for DE's. Now is the BEST time to make sure they realize it. People are slated not to fixing JTL, we need to make it clear that "fixing," involves Droids.
After the Developers and Programmers are moved onto other projects is NOT the time to do it.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
I'm agreeing with what your saying about picking battles, yet here is my thinking on the matter.
Right now there are Programers and Developers "dedicated," to JTL. They are going to be dealing with JTL for a certain period of time, before they are moved somewhere else. Now obviously bugs and balance are (and should be,) their main focus.
However what if the developers (for whatever reason,) really don't understand what a PERFECT opportunity they missed for DE's. Now is the BEST time to make sure they realize it. People are slated not to fixing JTL, we need to make it clear that "fixing," involves Droids.
After the Developers and Programmers are moved onto other projects is NOT the time to do it.
The problem here is that their next project is already slated for them. (Actually their next 4-5 projects) We aren't it. You were in beta and I'm sure you could tell that JtL has been the focus of 99% of the development effort for the last several months. Next, we're going to see the same effort placed on the "Combat Balance".
I think the single biggest thing we disagree on here is that JtL was the "perfect" time to fix DEs. It wasn't. It was the perfet time to fix Shipwright, Pilot and all the JtL content. If anything, it was the perfect time for them to fix smugglers, but they didn't do that either. It comes down to the biggest bang for your buck. They should be focusing on fixing the things that will help the largest number of players out. Right now, that's not DE. As a player of this game, I would rather see them fixing all the bugs that are causing problems to the player base as a whole. It's all about perspective. I'm a player of SWG first, and a DE second.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
I'm agreeing with what your saying about picking battles, yet here is my thinking on the matter.
Right now there are Programers and Developers "dedicated," to JTL. They are going to be dealing with JTL for a certain period of time, before they are moved somewhere else. Now obviously bugs and balance are (and should be,) their main focus.
However what if the developers (for whatever reason,) really don't understand what a PERFECT opportunity they missed for DE's. Now is the BEST time to make sure they realize it. People are slated not to fixing JTL, we need to make it clear that "fixing," involves Droids.
After the Developers and Programmers are moved onto other projects is NOT the time to do it.
Very true, very true indeed. Given that we now have people focused completely on JTL, it would be a good time to launch a "campaign" of sorts to get some of our stuff looked at.
I'd suggest waiting until the JTL Issues thread comes up - and inform them that there are definitely issues with droids that need to be resolved, and resolved for the sake of all DE's across the game. Make droids matter. We can't say that enough, of course. Dedicating time to posting in the issues and feedback threads after JTL goes Live will give us some visibility. The single greatest thing to get attention is to join together and post en masse. Let them know it's not some raving crackpot who has a personal vendetta. Let them know that the profession's community is upset/concerned and hope that they actually act like they give a crap. Be prepared to have them not give a crap. This is what has happened to Dancers and Musicians, unfortunately. All we can do is wait for the opportunity that the feedback/issues threads allow us, and make our unified voices heard.
Perhaps a good rundown of serious issues is in order, so that we all can be consistent with our problems.
I dunno, I agree that the near future will be the time to voice our concerns, and utilize the Dev focus on JTL while it lasts. But, with enough prodding, the Devs may reconsider the questionable decisions they've already made - given enough negative feedback from the DE community.
The "wait and see" attitude has, of late, gotten most professions nowhere. The "in your face" attitude of some professions has gotten them nowhere, too. Really, I think it boils to whether the Devs fear the majority of a community are severely pissed off, and THEN they try to make people happy. So, get your grumpy faces on if you're unhappy with the DE profession as it will be implemented in JTL, and make your opinion known on appropriate threads once they're created for the JTL launch. I'll be in there, too - trust me. I'm hoping to make millions off of launch day hype, but it's nowhere near the consistent income every DE needs and deserves. I'm getting kinda tired of riding the wave of "new" and only getting let down a month later, getting forgotten again. But, at least as it stands right now, I'm making some serious money as a DE after a very long dry spell.
I envy the Weaponsmiths and Armorsmiths with multi-million credit orders. If we get enough people from our community to voice our opposition to what has changed, or to demand some kind of revision of the DE profession to finally allow for a good, reliable, profitable product that keeps people coming back, then maybe the Devs will listen. Maybe. All we can do is try.
I'll stand by ya, if you go to bat for this. I feel there definitely needs to be some reworking of this, in the DE's favor. They gave us a little, and actually kind of took a lot IMHO.