Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: DE Focus Thread #1: The Skill Tree
Sodan,
I understand your statement about grinding.
As I'd stated before, a case could be made that one could "grind" the profession regardless of which skill boxes are taken when and where the Adv. Droid Frame is placed.
My intent here is to layout a more logical and balanced skill tree. The details are something that I hope this thread will help to address.
I realize that placing Adv. Droid Frames and Construction 4 is an issue for some players. I'll have to consider this. Perhaps it would make sense to swap it and the GSM in the skill boxes I describe.
I also hope that people will start to suggest some middle ground here. The Master DEs out there may not care a lot, since they are done with the skill tree but I think it's in our best interest as a profession to get the skill tree to the best possible place that it can be.
If people have suggestions...please include them. They will help me as I try to build the next focus thread (on droid Chassis).
/bow
Respectfully,
TheRealTK421 wrote:
As I'd stated before, a case could be made that one could "grind" the profession regardless of which skill boxes are taken when and where the Adv. Droid Frame is placed.
The advantage of frame units is that 1) they only use two resources both of which are *always* available, 2) they don't involve subcomponents, and 3) they give lots of exp.
Grinding full droids is a lot harder. Many DEs don't have the inventory space to amass subcomponents for full-droid grinding. Such a grind would be needlessly complex compared to the "drop in two resources and hit your /practice no item macro" nirvana of frame units. I'm hearing Wrist Cramp Angels singing a chorus: Advanced Droid Frame Units! 
As a Master DE, I am concerned about steps that make it harder to get to MDE than it already is. My friend Au-Ru Blasterkin and I took very different paths. He took the sell-most-droids-you-make path and I grinded my way with 10 lots on fiber and steel. Both are legit and equally fun to the folks who choose them. I hated teh grind but it was over quick and nowI can kick back back and relax in gimpy MDE-ness.
Another comment: I agree with those posters who say that a droid chasis should not be placed in one branch while their required subcomponents (not optional modules) are placed in another. That will only put the chasis out of reach longer and improvish Novice DEs wanting to make a few sales on chasis for home decor.
This game is about having fun. It takes a special kind of player to play a DE given the big time delayed gratification of reaching MDE. Please, let's not make it harder.
Grinding is a lot harder if frame units are in a lvl 4 box.
Eutock wrote:
How can the skill tree, any skill tree, not have a role in determining play style? It's like saying players' actions should have no bearing on game event outcomes.
TheRealTK421 wrote:
How many of us followed the 'standard' path?
1. Grind MSEs 2. Get to BP2 3. Grind Adv. Droid Frames till Master 4. Finally enjoy the profession.
I wouldn't say everyone did it...but I know that MANY did. That's just sad.
How many of us followed the 'standard' path?
1. Grind MSEs 2. Get to BP2 3. Grind Adv. Droid Frames till Master 4. Finally enjoy the profession.
I wouldn't say everyone did it...but I know that MANY did. That's just sad.
I've only rescently started doing this and the tree basically screams the need to do this.
I'm not sure there is any point in rearranging the tree though. It seems that with DE, as with every other crafting profession, there's basically no point in doing anything in it unless you're a master. The Devs need to address the issue of making early and mid skill artisan professions more useful in general. If they do that, then I think it's only then that we could suggest appropriate skill changes for the profession within the context of a working crafter system. Until then, we'll just be making different iterations of broken.
Streamweaver wrote:
I've only rescently started doing this and the tree basically screams the need to do this.
This was part of the reason to attempt to re-roll the DE skill tree.
I'm not sure there is any point in rearranging the tree though.
How about making it less of a grindfest and more fun to climb?
It seems that with DE, as with every other crafting profession, there's basically no point in doing anything in it unless you're a master.
That's partly true though not 100% true. There are ways for lower-level DEs to make money and DE XP.
The Devs need to address the issue of making early and mid skill artisan professions more useful in general.
Part of this would pretty much have to relate to a better appointed skill tree...hence my reason for starting this Focus Thread. If you DEs out there don't think our skill tree is messed up, you're wrong.
If they do that, then I think it's only then that we could suggest appropriate skill changes for the profession within the context of a working crafter system. Until then, we'll just be making different iterations of broken.
/bow
Respectfully,
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Grinding is a lot harder if frame units are in a lvl 4 box.
Eutock wrote:
How can the skill tree, any skill tree, not have a role in determining play style? It's like saying players' actions should have no bearing on game event outcomes.
Sodan,
That depends on how the XP given for different parts/items changes.
/bow
Respectfully,
/bow
Streamweaver wrote:
I'm not sure there is any point in rearranging the tree though.
Sure there is...
You might want to consider my DE Focus Thread 2 to see how tree rearrangement would fit into market building at different levels (which you mention below). TH has stated that our changes touch a lot of other systems. If we want our 'fix' (and additional side benefits for the game as a whole), the skill tree needs to be on the table.
It seems that with DE, as with every other crafting profession, there's basically no point in doing anything in it unless you're a master.
Yes, that's largely true. The problem is that money is pretty easy to make so it's easy for many droid clients to simply wait and buy from a higher-level DE. The lower level have a much harder time getting money. That's why they need a market for features that Master and higher-level DEs won't tough (since it's not worth their time).
I can tell you that, for example, I haven't made/sold a single MSE. Why? There's no ROI.
The Devs need to address the issue of making early and mid skill artisan professions more useful in general.
You should go check out the DE Focus thread 2. Maybe some of the things I've mentioned above will help you see how the profession might fare better.
If they do that, then I think it's only then that we could suggest appropriate skill changes for the profession within the context of a working crafter system.
I think the system's need to be logical and right now, they just aren't. If a DE wants to make a living at each 'level' (low, middle and Master), there has to be a look at the fundamentals that are keep it from being possible (and fun).
Until then, we'll just be making different iterations of broken.
Uhhhhh....everything?
I'm sure thing will get better...or not.
Respectfully,
Lets say that they did make dramatic changes to the DE skill trees.
How would you handle people's skills who weren't masters?
Lets say that someone had gotten to 3/3/0/4 or so. Suddenly, this distribution of exp becomes a not-so-good thing.
I think that our skill trees are a bit poorly laid out now, yes, but a drastic change to them - while good in the long term - might cause some uproar.
In the example given, a 3/3/0/4 wouldn't be in too bad of a place.
He/she would only need to get 1 or 2 Refinement boxes and they are basically at the same place as a Master.
My point in doing this is to raise the idea that the layout of the skill tree is very much tied to how the profession gets played and how successful one can be as they climb the tree. In addition, I happen to believe that my layout is both more logical and balanced that the one we currently have in place.
The idea here is to discuss the tree and the changes to it that would best affect the profession.
Assuming that the skill tree were fully 'on the table', what do you think of the reorganization I've put forth?
/bow
Respectfully,
Assuming that the skill tree were fully 'on the table', what do you think of the reorganization I've put forth?
I think that it makes a lot more sense than the one that is in place now.
You got your five stars from me a while back... 