Droid Engineer Archive

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How many of us followed the 'standard' path?

1. Grind MSEs
2. Get to BP2
3. Grind Adv. Droid Frames till Master
4. Finally enjoy the profession.

I wouldn't say everyone did it...but I know that MANY did. That's just sad.

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I agree it's not the nicest way of doing it but unless you can change it to a non exp based way of levelling people will always find the "next best" item to grind with. It's in many people's nature to grind to either get that next ding or to be able to compete in sales with the person ahead of them.

I disagree TK, you would have to grind Production to be able to create any of the deeds. I think it is fine the way it is now. As soon as I get the next BP I make all the different droids with no modules just so I see them, then I destroy them. It would be like in artisan you would only get components to the next level in artisan. You start out with dough, fiberplast panels, armor segements, and parts for dice. Nothing you can use yet until you grind out the next level.

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Drashk wrote:

I can see what you have in mind here, but some of the changes are too drastic, such aswith the AdvSurgical Droid.


There's a reason for this (which will be more clear when I have the other threads in place).

As to why : The Advanced Surgical Droid, its Chassis, and the normal Surgical Droidseemed to be to spread out from one another.


Yes...that's the point.


I'm guessing that you have something in mind in a different Focus Thread, however spreading out the Chassis from the actually droid would really confuse a lot of new DEs that walked into the profession without 'doing their homework'.


I guess they will have to learn the value of homework then, huh?


I'd suggest moving the Advanced Droid Frame down a level due to the number of droids that would need it at Expert Blueprints.


Why?Moving this up was one ofthe main methods of 'grind reduction'. If a DEwants to, they will be plenty capable of hitting Master Production thenmoving to higher-end Blueprints.

We can't have everything (or, more importantly, shouldn't).


I can see the stress on trying to add function to a droid, however a system such as this is very limiting to how many droids a Novice would be able to create if they wanted to level up the profession in an even manner.


I hope you noted that I actually moved 2 droid deeds (Seekers and DZ70s) to the Novice level. This gives them a market to:

- BH's
- Low-level combat newbie types

More to come on this. You've only seen the start...don't judge this too harshly just yet. I think I can justify all this in my future threads.


A Novice would have to be 4/0/3/3 if they wanted to try and make a decent bit of income from Medcial R2 sales.


See...that's the point. Novices shouldn't be focusing on making/selling R-series droids. Thoseshould be Advanced/Expert level droids. We need to keep the focus for lower-level DEs to a morecommodity-based market that thehigher-level DEs simply don't have the time or inclination to touch.

You know how many MSEs, DZ70s and Seekers I've made once I reached a higher level DE status?

None. Zero. Zilch.

That's as it should be.

As I said, I think thiswillall become more clear as I'm able to get up the other threads.


In the model that I propose, a Novice could be 3/0/3/3 and be able to offer a product to our largest target group, Medics.


See...you're thinking about the past. I'm thinking about the future, when we can have a lot of other target groups.


Otherwise, I like the change ideas.

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/bow

Respectfully,

I like this setup.

And for those of us that arent at master yet (me- 4/0/0/4), our skill tree could be reset to 0/0/0/0 and all xpspent to get to our current position, isreturned to us to spend onthe newdirection or branches as we choose. So I might choose togo 2/2/2/2, instead of where I am. Our schematics would also need to be reset.

Graf VonSoden MA, DE {4/0/0/4}

Making Adv. Frame units so high on the tree would encourage grinding, not discourage it. Making it master level means you would be required to grind to that level just to make droids that are several levels lower in the blueprints tree.

Bad idea.

Why have a droid complexity skill? The description of it says it does nothing, and we do not have a dev/corrospondant answer on this either.

GrafvonSoden, any time that a profession tree is changed, nothing else is changed. You wouldn't be given the option to reassign skills or reclaim XP. All of your schematics would also be changed to match your current skills.

TheRealTK421, what I forgot to mention about trying to take away the emphasis on a grindable item was that at Intermediate Droid Production you still have a grindable item in the Manipulator Arms Package. It may not be as grind-friendly as the Advanced Droid Frame, but it still generates more XP per build than an MSE.

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DarthRoe wrote:

Making Adv. Frame units so high on the tree would encourage grinding, not discourage it.


Actually, I think this depends on how one views their progression. It's possible to play this profession (or any) as a "grind" if one so chooses. The whole point is to try and alter the profession in such a way that ends up allowing the journey to be enjoyable.

I can guarantee you no matter what, some players will grind. It's their way.

I'm trying to figure out how to changes things so that even the grinders can have more fun (and won't have to grind exclusively to get ahead).


Making it master level means you would be required to grind to that level just to make droids that are several levels lower in the blueprints tree.

Bad idea.

There's lots of ways to grind any profession.

Let me get my other threads up (to 'connect' all this) and maybe what I'm proposing will make more sense.

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/bow

Respectfully,

You are coming to the DEnet meeting, aren't you TK?

I'm sure this will bring up lots of questions.

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Drashk wrote:

TheRealTK421, what I forgot to mention about trying to take away the emphasis on a grindable item was that at Intermediate Droid Production you still have a grindable item in the Manipulator Arms Package. It may not be as grind-friendly as the Advanced Droid Frame, but it still generates more XP per build than an MSE.


Yea...that's true. Not much I can do there (yet).

There's no way to grind-proof a crafting profession, as far as I've seen.

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/bow

Respectfully,

We need some kind of changes, and this looks like a good start.

The best part about making things is being able to make a good product and taking pride in your accomplishment. Also, the competitive aspect of trying to create the highest quality product is very addictive. This works well at the artisan level, but my understanding is that in DE it doesnt matter what kind of resources you use, the end product is the same. If this is the case, then this should be a priority as well.

Also, more droids at the top of the skill tree. Everyone is saying droideka, which would be cool. But what about the spider droid in the warren as a combat droid. Thats what I want!

Thanks for coming up with some ideas for the skill trees. Peeps with ideas and constructive comments and suggestions is what will make this profession fun!

The profession does seem to need some balancing as far as some skills and items. When I first looked at the tree, it seemed Production and Construction just had modules thrown in all over the place just to put them somewhere. Not because there was any form or function to the layout.

I took the entire Blueprints branch first, just so I could build all the cool chassis for display.
I'd personally like to see chassis for ALL Advmodels so we could display them all

Some people like to go up one branch to a certain level to get a particular item or skill they want to use right away.

Some people prefer to take Level I of each branch, then take Level II of each branch, etc.

It's just a matter of goals and playstyle.

I hope one of the aims of this new skill tree was not to force us to level one way or the other. Try to allow us to gain skills the way we want to.

To buildthe Adv droids, we'd have to grind up both the Blueprints branch and the Construction branch. That would make it harder to get to the point where we could build Adv droids. Most are only one level away from each other in the different branches, but Adv Surgical is two levels away.

And placing many of the other Adv components high up in the Production branch makes it even more difficult to build Adv Chassis.

I can't look up the current skilltree right now to compare it.

If that's your intent, OK. It sure will make it harder for people to just jump in and start making the better droids. But come to think of it, that just might be a good idea to keep out anyone who isn't really serious.

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Special attention needs to be paid to item and product interdependencies. The strangest thing I saw was the Manipulator Arm Package Set at like Production 3, when so many ofthe Adv Chassis required that item for assembly.

At the time, there wasn't much else in the Production branch I really wanted. But if I wanted tobuild most Adv Chassis, I'd have to burn up the Production branchto get that one item.

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Hey, I don't like grinding either, but we still need to be able to level without spending years doing it - don't make it too hard for us to gain levels.

Remember, the DE low end products aren't completely useless like some other professions (CDEF pistol anyone?), but it's still impossible to sell everything we'll make to gain skill boxes. We do need some way to grind when we have to.

I actually found Adv Frames to make the grind easier than many other professions. It was actually an asset to have a good grindable item so low on a skill branch.

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Adanced Droid Frame Units should be put in Novice DE. The skilltree should not make it MORE difficult for Novice DEs to make some bucks or move up the tree quickly.

If you don't like grinding, don't. But don't rob others of that path if they so choose. I wanted to get to MDE as fast as possible and Frame Units really helped me with that. Thereis nothing wrong with grinding if that's what you want to do. Not everyone wants to go through the path of making and selling low-level droids for several months to get to MDE. It's fine if you do, though, just like its fine if I prefer to grind. Let's not let the skilltree decide playing style though.

I went up in Blueprints first and bought higher level modules from other DEs to make some bucks while I grinded my way to MDE. I dislike any plan that makes it harder for DEs to do this.

Finally, I think the bigger question on the skill tree is, if we do have DE-only droids or droid certs for certain droids, how will the pointsbe spread throughout the skilltree. Hopefully they will be placed so as to discourage dabblers, while throwing Novice DEs a bone and placing the Crown of DE-ness Cert in the MDE block.

I really appreciate TheRealTK421's very thoughtful post on this, but I think we should focus our energy on the proposed changes and their implications rather than revamp a skill tree that -- with the exception of the almost useless Refinement branch -- seems just fine to me. Again, I do appreciate the thought that went into this though.