Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Sodan's Hybrid DE Proposal
Given the number of posts in Daker's thread concerning this one, I doubt it. I would have cardiac arrest if you're right though.
Lonkley wrote:
Daker-Naritus wrote:
If he didn't feel the need to clarify in this thread, that means he is at least thinking about it, and maybe passing it along for others to comment on. That is a good thing.
could also mean he didnt read this thread because he thought yours was the plan we were pushing.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Okaaaaay...
So I just logged on and saw Runesabre's post...
*blink blink*
What the heck possessed him to come post on my threadbut not this one? Better yet, why did he even come read it? Curious...
I don't think a lack of a red name in this thread is a bad thing though...
Basically what Runesabre said is that it will be a little while before any new professions or many professions will be added to the game. He felt the need to clarify with the other idea.
If he didn't feel the need to clarify in this thread, that means he is at least thinking about it, and maybe passing it along for others to comment on. That is a good thing.
Keep hoping, nothing is lost yet.
Edit: Fixed my sad grammar...
Message Edited by Daker-Naritus on 03-09-2004 07:40 PM
Daker,
If all goes well we will be drinking Jawa beers at some future DENet meeting while Corresponent Doughbacca/TK shows off the first player-made droideka. Keep hoping!
...and while you're at it get Kollos on board! lol!
Daker-Naritus wrote:Okaaaaay...
So I just logged on and saw Runesabre's post...
*blink blink*
What the heck possessed him to come post on my thread but not this one? Better yet, why did he even come read it? Curious...
I don't think a lack of a red name in this thread is a bad thing though...
Basically what Runesabre said is that it will be a little while before any new professions or many professions will be added to the game. He felt the need to clarify with the other idea.
If he didn't feel the need to clarify in this thread, that means he is at least thinking about it, and maybe passing it along for others to comment on. That is a good thing.
Keep hoping, nothing is lost yet.
Edit: Fixed my sad grammar...Message Edited by Daker-Naritus on 03-09-2004 07:40 PM
Well, I posted a comment requesting that TH and Runesabre come over and take a look at Sodan's Hybrid DE Proposal and Daker's Droid Mini-Profession to the "Droid's where we are and where we're going thread" over in the In Development forum.
Maybe they saw that and came over. I figured hey, we are currently more or less without a Correspondent to tell them in the Correspondent forum to come take a look at the two proposals.
So I figured we got to get the message out somehow.
Virtanis wrote:
Kollos wrote (purple):
Virtanis wrote (white, then response in light blue):
Our naggingquestion still remains, unlike thequestions of Wookiee armor, usefulmerchandise for master artisans, and Bounty Hunterstracking Jedi. After all has been said and done in this thread, based on Runesabre's clarion comments, the DH profession will not be the answer to our problem.
Master Artisans have useful merchandise? Really? When did we get that? You don't consider vehicles to be useful merchandise, do you? They're worse than Droids.
Compared to the Neimoidian Bird Cage? You'redarn right Vehicles are useful merchandise. When was the last time you built and solda nemoidian bird cagefor a purpose other than pointless decoration and used it to do.... er... something?
There are many "nagging questions" out there, not just ours. Plus I'm not sure that high level combat droids really qualifies as our "nagging question" anyway because they're just not appropriate at this point in the timeline. (But that's a different issue.)
Right, but medium "personal security" droids are... Say >10, <35?
No offense to Sodan, but this isn't the answer. It's an answer, and it appears to be one that many people are happy with, but it's not perfect.
An imperfect answer for an imperfect game = about the best we can get.
I get the distinct impression that people are so desperate at this point that they'll jump on any bandwagon that seems reasonable. This is a reasonable proposal, but I don't think it is the best one that has ever been discussed here. It just has the most momentum at this point in time. /shrug
Understandable... do you consider the Dev's original Droid Handler idea a "reasonable" proposal, Kollos?
Ack! Too many colors...
I'm glad to hear that you consider Droids to be useful. 
So many people here rant and rave about it so much that I get the feeling they don't actually like Droids at all... makes me wonder why they're even Droid Engineers in the first place.
When I said that this proposal wasn't perfect, I meant even considering the imperfect game it is meant to improve. I strongly disagree with the whole idea of turning Droid Engineer into a combat profession, which is what this proposal does. So unfortunately, Sodan, I can't "get on board". All I can do is not fight strenuously against it... but that's more because I don't believe it is necessary than for any other reason. I think patches 7 & 8 are pretty much already set in stone... no proposal at this late of a date is going to happen.But anyway, to me this proposal is worse than getting no combat droids at all. There are too many ways to implement combat droids that do not involve tying them to the Droid Engineer profession in a way that encourages people to play DE just for its combat abilities. I don't believe that this is the best we can get, nor do I believe that it is our last hope. I think people are caving because they're tired of the constant bickering.
I liked the mini-profession idea. I liked theskill point certs idea. I liked the illegal combat droid idea. A hybrid Droid Engineer profession just doesn't fit the time frame to me and is too radical of a departure from the profession's history.
Yes, Virtanis, I did think that the original DH idea proposed by the Devs was reasonable. As I recall I caused something of a fuss because I abstained from the poll that overwhelmingly rejected the idea. I don't think that DH was that great of an idea, though, because I just can't see an entire profession built around simply using droids. I also think that virtually everyone should be able to use most droids, so I wasn't terribly happy with combat droids being relegated to a single profession. However, it was at least as reasonable as this proposal. Personally, I prefer it. But far too many people were vehemently opposed to it to make it viable. /shrug
Tarne_Monter wrote:
Well, I posted a comment requesting that TH and Runesabre come over and take a look at Sodan's Hybrid DE Proposal and Daker's Droid Mini-Profession to the "Droid's where we are and where we're going thread" over in the In Development forum.
Maybe they saw that and came over. I figured hey, we are currently more or less without a Correspondent to tell them in the Correspondent forum to come take a look at the two proposals.
So I figured we got to get the message out somehow.
I asked them to look at this thread when it first heated up. Then I followed up with TH to let him know about the revised thread. He said he would "check" it, but that's all he said and we have yet to hear from them.
I am praying to various droid servo gods that they are reviewing -- gasp -- this monster thread and debating its viability or better yet deciding how to implement their own version of it. As mentioned repeatedly, the crafting system for combat modules, the game mechanics for pets, and the art for the droids are all already in the game.
We'd be seeing some doughbacca style breakdowns on how frigging great the Devsare if they implemented some version of this. If not, at least we tried.
Well, there it is. We tried to pursuade you but no luck. Your feedback is appreciated anyways.
Kollos wrote:
So unfortunately, Sodan, I can't "get on board". All I can do is not fight strenuously against it... but that's more because I don't believe it is necessary than for any other reason. I think patches 7 & 8 are pretty much already set in stone... no proposal at this late of a date is going to happen.But anyway, to me this proposal is worse than getting no combat droids at all.
Kollos sayeth in white:
I'm glad to hear that you consider Droids to be useful.
On good days, I make 500k selling droids and droid related products and very slow weeks still bring in a cool million credits for me. I think they're incredibly useful and fun.
I strongly disagree with the whole idea of turning Droid Engineer into a combat profession, which is what this proposal does.
Remember, only if the player wants it. You're notforced to have Ranged Support 4, you're not forced to build combat droids, you're not forced to deploy thosecombat droids, and you're not forced to feed it a battery when they spam *low power*... (er, well maybe not the last one).
But anyway, to me this proposal is worse than getting no combat droids at all.
Well, with the ever-vague *utility modules - look, a droid that can light fireworks - but useful skill enhancing abilities would throw the entire game into an imbalanced miasma of death and destruction!!*crap we have heard from the Dev's isn't exactly heartening either. Like I said in my previous posts though, I'm still patient... so I have not yet issued my verdict on the "utility" patch.
I think people are caving because they're tired of the constant bickering.
You want to know a powerful motivating force of mine to try to get this plan implemented? Well, firstly I think the DH idea is absolutely moronic, lazy,and disgraceful, but that's not my main point. My main point is this... now bare with me:
Right now we're going to get a powerful nerf our way (stripping armor ratings from armor modules)because of a (continuing) developer oversight committed way back in/before beta! So, how long has it taken them to get around to 1) addressing questions of HAM, 2) addressing questions of attack speeds, 3) addressing questions of attack damage, 4) addressing % resists for droids, 5) addressing the armor rating, 6) implementing a droid repair "stim", 7) unlocking new/existing combat capable chassis, etc, etc, etc...
Answer: An absolutelyridiculous amount of time.
Now, what bothers me the most about all of this isn't so much those changes... it's the fact that all these changes are currently only pertaining to our existing chassis (all equal to or less than CL10). Yes, all this may be formulated with the "end game (>CL10 droids)in mind, but I'll bet it isn't. I'll bet they're jamming droids into the nice little cookie-cutter formula they slapped together for the BE made creature pets.
So, I'm crapping golden twinkies because, if it took an eternity for them to get their crap straight for CL10 droids, and I want a system in place ***yesterday*** to address the >CL10 droids we don't even have yet, and it damn well better not be a carbon-copy of the CH profession!
If the DE profession is a novel, it's as if they never even had an end in mind when they started writing the book and still not even until they finished up to page 300!
I don't want to face another throng of customers and players saying: "Sorry, all armor ratings are being stripped from our droids, I have no clue what's happening in the future, I have no clue if >CL10 droids will be introduced, I have no clue how they'll be introduced, I have no clue if better chassis will be available, etc, etc, etc..."
I want a system in now. If they have a system to get >CL10 droids in the game, I want to hear it now. If they plan on doing a DH profession anyway, disregarding the player community, my credit card company want's to know now.
I liked the mini-profession idea. I liked theskill point certs idea. I liked the illegal combat droid idea. A hybrid Droid Engineer profession just doesn't fit the time frame to me and is too radical of a departure from the profession's history.
I personally don't care if it takes P9, P10, or P11 to get this settled. I wantthe general frameworksettled once and for all, and now since they'redrastically altering / layingthe foundation for that futurepublish and scrambling our currentdroids to do it.
Yes, Virtanis, I did think that the original DH idea proposed by the Devs was reasonable.
I don't know if you noticed... but, I really don't like that idea.
Author's P.S. Sorry if I sould a little "venty" tonight. I really don't relish the idea of four vendors loaded with outdated, obsolete, unsellable droids and losing my beloved armor. I'm just a little ranty right now.
Virtanis wrote:
Kollos sayeth in white:
......(various text).....
The only thing I would say Kollos, is that to a combatant, there's really very little difference going to Marksman 0004/DE 0040 then going through a new mini-profession. In the end. Its all just numbers with pretty graphics. The Hybrid plan does not make DE's a combat class. It makes DE's who want to do combat take up another profession to gain combat droids. Because its the refinement tree, there's no flood of cheap knock off droids, because its cheaper to buy a droid from a master than to loose the skill points to be able to make adequate droids (which will still not be the "best" unless they go to MDE and find the resources).
Note: The following is purely speculation, names have been changed to protect the innocent
My take on why a Dev hasn't responded to this thread (as they are obviously lurking our forum):
The devs think this plan may be doable. They don't want to respond here saying it may be doable, as that would cause outcry of "Are we there yet?" There is a possibility it is being carefully considered, weighing the pros and cons. I'm sure at least one of the Devs have looked at this, as I PM'd one of them myself. They don't want to shoot the idea down, but they don't want to spark too much hope either.
Either that or they haven't read it.
/shrug
I sure hope Runsabre reads through this thread too after briefly visiting the Mini-Tree one.
I know who: The DE community. So many mods went into it at the suggestion of others. Here is where we have arrived on the community's shoulders.
Lonkley wrote:
It certainly does seem like a beautiful hack. A requirement without being required. Whoever thought it up, good job. at some point im going to have to go back and see who it was.