Droid Engineer Archive

The astromech stats are very old. October 20th. But, at that time, 0.91% of players had Novice DE. There are not stats listed for Master Elite Professions.

http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=Character%20Metrics

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duncje wrote:

The astromech stats are very old. October 20th. But, at that time, 0.91% of players had Novice DE. There are not stats listed for Master Elite Professions.

http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=Character%20Metrics

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Ok, these are old stats. However, given the number of DEs LEAVING the profession -- and we have seen a lot -- we'll assume they are a conservative estimate. Remember also that MANY DEs do not progress up the 0040 DE tree until they hit the other trees first. So with that in mind, we can assume that:

99% of the population will have to grind up to 0040 DE.

So what are we talking about then? a Freebie for the poor glum souls -- .91% -- who are DEs? And how many of those sad guys/gals have Ranged Support 4. I am sorry but all this talk of free checkers is WAY overblown in this thread.

I USED to have these skills, but I dropped them so I'll be grinding 0004 Marksman too.

I rarely say this, and here I do so out of respect but: ROTFLMAO!!! THIS PLAN HAS NO FREE CHECKERS FOR ANYONE!!! HAHAHAAHAAA!

I'm glad we did that math on that. *phew*

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Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:

Yep, we can't escape that there are already lots of players out there who are DEs. We can't escape that there are lots of players out that have 0004 Markman. Few are the players, however, that have the0040 DE and 0004 Marksman. That means that most players -- I would say judging on the stats I've seen, 98% of players -- would need to go up the 0040 tree. Most DEs would need to go up the 0004 Marksman tree which we have noted is like going up 0400 Marksman FOUR TIMES due to the cobmat exp requirement.

Finally, if a player already has these skills, well, we'll have to differ on that -- I say they've earned it! They spent the time and money and they are still investing the points.

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I'll agree to disagree. Clearly, the Devs also don't agree. Right or wrong (*cough*wrong*cough*), the Devs seem to think that Droid Engineer is already a fully balanced crafting profession. Or, more specifically, that it will be a fully balanced crafting profession after they are done revising it in patches 7 and 8. Personally, I'll need to wait until patches 7 & 8 are done before I can make my own final judgement on that issue.

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Kollos wrote:

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Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:

Yep, we can't escape that there are already lots of players out there who are DEs. We can't escape that there are lots of players out that have 0004 Markman. Few are the players, however, that have the0040 DE and 0004 Marksman. That means that most players -- I would say judging on the stats I've seen, 98% of players -- would need to go up the 0040 tree. Most DEs would need to go up the 0004 Marksman tree which we have noted is like going up 0400 Marksman FOUR TIMES due to the cobmat exp requirement.

Finally, if a player already has these skills, well, we'll have to differ on that -- I say they've earned it! They spent the time and money and they are still investing the points.

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I'll agree to disagree. Clearly, the Devs also don't agree. Right or wrong (*cough*wrong*cough*), the Devs seem to think that Droid Engineer is already a fully balanced crafting profession. Or, more specifically, that it will be a fully balanced crafting profession after they are done revising it in patches 7 and 8. Personally, I'll need to wait until patches 7 & 8 are done before I can make my own final judgement on that issue.

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Kollos wrote:

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Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:

Yep, we can't escape that there are already lots of players out there who are DEs. We can't escape that there are lots of players out that have 0004 Markman. Few are the players, however, that have the0040 DE and 0004 Marksman. That means that most players -- I would say judging on the stats I've seen, 98% of players -- would need to go up the 0040 tree. Most DEs would need to go up the 0004 Marksman tree which we have noted is like going up 0400 Marksman FOUR TIMES due to the cobmat exp requirement.

Finally, if a player already has these skills, well, we'll have to differ on that -- I say they've earned it! They spent the time and money and they are still investing the points.

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I'll agree to disagree. Clearly, the Devs also don't agree. Right or wrong (*cough*wrong*cough*), the Devs seem to think that Droid Engineer is already a fully balanced crafting profession. Or, more specifically, that it will be a fully balanced crafting profession after they are done revising it in patches 7 and 8. Personally, I'll need to wait until patches 7 & 8 are done before I can make my own final judgement on that issue.

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Virtanis wrote:

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Kollos wrote:

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Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:

Yep, we can't escape that there are already lots of players out there who are DEs. We can't escape that there are lots of players out that have 0004 Markman. Few are the players, however, that have the0040 DE and 0004 Marksman. That means that most players -- I would say judging on the stats I've seen, 98% of players -- would need to go up the 0040 tree. Most DEs would need to go up the 0004 Marksman tree which we have noted is like going up 0400 Marksman FOUR TIMES due to the cobmat exp requirement.

Finally, if a player already has these skills, well, we'll have to differ on that -- I say they've earned it! They spent the time and money and they are still investing the points.

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I'll agree to disagree. Clearly, the Devs also don't agree. Right or wrong (*cough*wrong*cough*), the Devs seem to think that Droid Engineer is already a fully balanced crafting profession. Or, more specifically, that it will be a fully balanced crafting profession after they are done revising it in patches 7 and 8. Personally, I'll need to wait until patches 7 & 8 are done before I can make my own final judgement on that issue.

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I understand the point you're making here, but the question remains: how will >CL10 droids get into the game? I contend that this plan addresses that question aptly and with fairness and balance all taken into question. One point though, to remind you of the very nature of MMORPG's. Today the dev's announced that Wookiees will soon be able to wear a newly designed and fully player made suit of armor. If you ask anyone who has played a Wookiee, this is a huge deal and a major victory for them.

I'm sure if you polled the Dev's back in June 2003 about the player character races, they probably would have answered "thatthe Wookieeis already a fully balanced character race".

Change happens. Paradigms are shattered. Thoughts happen "out of the box".

Our naggingquestion still remains, unlike thequestions of Wookiee armor, usefulmerchandise for master artisans, and Bounty Hunterstracking Jedi. After all has been said and done in this thread, based on Runesabre's clarion comments, the DH profession will not be the answer to our problem.

This plan may, just may... bethe answer.

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Agree. We argue that this plan gives no free checkers, except to maybe .45% of the playerbase who have the right skills and that is being generous. Everyone else 99.55% of the playerbase will have to grind their way there.

Completely separate from that argument which stands on its own by itself, there is the argument that we are still waiting for all of our checkers.

On top of these arguments, there is "Star Wars" -- bad @ss droids running aroung slaying sludge panthers is what we need.

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Virtanis wrote:

I understand the point you're making here, but the question remains: how will >CL10 droids get into the game? I contend that this plan addresses that question aptly and with fairness and balance all taken into question. One point though, to remind you of the very nature of MMORPG's. Today the dev's announced that Wookiees will soon be able to wear a newly designed and fully player made suit of armor. If you ask anyone who has played a Wookiee, this is a huge deal and a major victory for them.

I'm sure if you polled the Dev's back in June 2003 about the player character races, they probably would have answered "thatthe Wookieeis already a fully balanced character race".

Yeah, I'm a Wookiee. I picked the race to get the extra stat points because I knew I was going to be a non-combatant. Turns out that the extra stat points really don't do a whole lot of good for a crafter, but I've never felt the need for armor either so it was mostly a wash for me.

I'm sure that combat Wookiees are thrilled, though.

Change happens. Paradigms are shattered. Thoughts happen "out of the box".

More to the point, the concept ofbalance changes over time. The concept of balance in EverQuest deliberately went up with every expansion - you couldn't "compete" any more unless you went out and bought the new expansion and got all of the new loot. That's called power creep, and in general it's a bad thing. It worked for EverQuest, though, and may become a common paradigm in MMORPGs because of the fact that they can have continuous development over their lifetimes.

Our naggingquestion still remains, unlike thequestions of Wookiee armor, usefulmerchandise for master artisans, and Bounty Hunterstracking Jedi. After all has been said and done in this thread, based on Runesabre's clarion comments, the DH profession will not be the answer to our problem.

Master Artisans have useful merchandise? Really? When did we get that? You don't consider vehicles to be useful merchandise, do you? They're worse than Droids.

There are many "nagging questions" out there, not just ours. Plus I'm not sure that high level combat droids really qualifies as our "nagging question" anyway because they're just not appropriate at this point in the timeline. (But that's a different issue.)

No offense to Sodan, but this isn't the answer. It's an answer, and it appears to be one that many people are happy with, but it's not perfect. I get the distinct impression that people are so desperate at this point that they'll jump on any bandwagon that seems reasonable. This is a reasonable proposal, but I don't think it is the best one that has ever been discussed here. It just has the most momentum at this point in time. /shrug

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Well on the plus side. No Dev has stopped into the thread to crush the plan

On the negative side. No dev has stopped into the thread to give it any merit.

I wish a red name would just stop in and at least say "You suck go away." or "We're thinking about it and crunching the numbers"

At this point, I really dont think there's any refinement we can do to this plan. its as good as its going to get, and is literally our last hope for combat droids before Space.

Please Red Names. Say something. Say anything.

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Kollos wrote:

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Virtanis wrote:

Change happens. Paradigms are shattered. Thoughts happen "out of the box".

More to the point, the concept ofbalance changes over time. The concept of balance in EverQuest deliberately went up with every expansion - you couldn't "compete" any more unless you went out and bought the new expansion and got all of the new loot. That's called power creep, and in general it's a bad thing. It worked for EverQuest, though, and may become a common paradigm in MMORPGs because of the fact that they can have continuous development over their lifetimes.

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Which brings us back to why this is a no free checkers proposal: The power creep is eleminated in SWG by the skillpoint cap. In EQ you could just keep going up to level 60 with your Dark Elf Enchanter. Not so in SWG where there are only 33 points left over after you hit Master BH, for example.

Thus, 78 points invested is a substantial investment for a balanced pay off of 25-36 droid levels. Not only will 95.5 % of players ahve to grind their way there, the investment of points will remains as a continued expenditure.

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Kollos wrote:

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No offense to Sodan, but this isn't the answer. It's an answer, and it appears to be one that many people are happy with, but it's not perfect. I get the distinct impression that people are so desperate at this point that they'll jump on any bandwagon that seems reasonable. This is a reasonable proposal, but I don't think it is the best one that has ever been discussed here. It just has the most momentum at this point in time. /shrug

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Kollos wrote:

No offense to Sodan, but this isn't the answer. It's an answer, and it appears to be one that many people are happy with, but it's not perfect. I get the distinct impression that people are so desperate at this point that they'll jump on any bandwagon that seems reasonable. This is a reasonable proposal, but I don't think it is the best one that has ever been discussed here. It just has the most momentum at this point in time. /shrug

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But thats just the point Kollos. There is no "perfect" solution. Given the restrictions placed on our options, this is a highly reasonable option, that while it may not make everyone happy, it wont piss everyone off either. It allows the content to exist, and without a plan we just get screwed out of the content. There are better solutions, probably the best is certifications but the Dev's clearly said no. DE's and Non-De' hated the DC idea in the far majority. The only option left is Hybrid, and this is as good a hybrid plan as you could ask for.

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Virtanis wrote (white, then response in light blue):

Our naggingquestion still remains, unlike thequestions of Wookiee armor, usefulmerchandise for master artisans, and Bounty Hunterstracking Jedi. After all has been said and done in this thread, based on Runesabre's clarion comments, the DH profession will not be the answer to our problem.

Master Artisans have useful merchandise? Really? When did we get that? You don't consider vehicles to be useful merchandise, do you? They're worse than Droids.

Compared to the Neimoidian Bird Cage? You'redarn right Vehicles are useful merchandise. When was the last time you built and solda nemoidian bird cagefor a purpose other than pointless decoration and used it to do.... er... something?

There are many "nagging questions" out there, not just ours. Plus I'm not sure that high level combat droids really qualifies as our "nagging question" anyway because they're just not appropriate at this point in the timeline. (But that's a different issue.)

Right, but medium "personal security" droids are... Say >10, <35?

No offense to Sodan, but this isn't the answer. It's an answer, and it appears to be one that many people are happy with, but it's not perfect.

An imperfect answer for an imperfect game = about the best we can get.

I get the distinct impression that people are so desperate at this point that they'll jump on any bandwagon that seems reasonable. This is a reasonable proposal, but I don't think it is the best one that has ever been discussed here. It just has the most momentum at this point in time. /shrug

Understandable... do you consider the Dev's original Droid Handler idea a "reasonable" proposal, Kollos?

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Daker-Naritus wrote:

If he didn't feel the need to clarify in this thread, that means he is at least thinking about it, and maybe passing it along for others to comment on. That is a good thing.

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