Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Please help me understand your change of heart.
On the chance people are still reading the thread at this point... I'm postingan abbreviated versionof my main post (http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=55066).
As we’ve seen, DEs don’t want to be CHs. I doubt many dream of running around with three giant combat mechs behind them, squashing all in their path (that’s what AT-STs are for). But the advantage droids have over organic pets is that they do exactly what they are told, without translation, quarrel or attitude.
However, some droids will require maintenance that a non-DE can’t give it. This is why non-DE can only command low-level bots that aren’t as highly advanced. A probot is like a toaster oven, a droideka is like a Xerox machine.
Regarding TH's comment thatif everyone got good droids, they’d have to make all the combat harder and those without droids would have a hard time of it. But having pets help in combat reduces your XP gain. This is the trade-off you always make when using a pet. How are good droids for everyone any different? If I had a lvl 15 pet (like I used to pre-nerf), I would get even less XP than with my current 10th lvl version per kill, cause it would do more damage. But I'd probably be able to kill faster, so it's a wash.
Finally, a point on CHs. Is CH a “combat profession” or a “crafting profession”? They certainly like to fight, and they train their pets to kill. But they also catch baby critters, train them, and sell them. They train them to be killers and mounts. No other “combat class” has anything to produce or sell. Obviously they are a hybrid class.
So if you’ve gotten through all of this, here’s my suggestion: Implement a cert system for combat droids that uses two level caps:
1) DE can use any droid they can make, except that the more powerful ones will function at reduced efficiency until the DE gets high enough to fully utilize it. There should be master-only combat droids.
2) With any advanced combat profession, give a cert at a 3rd level skill box that allows them to use droids up to level 15. This won’t reduce the usefulness of pets because non-CH that are that high don’t use pets anyway, right? If your pet cons blue to you, you need to give it away to a newb. But a droid doesn’t take nearly as much skill to command as an animal, you just need some basic tactical training to utilize them effectively.
3) NO combat droids higher than level 40. There is leeway here obviously as I’m not completely knowledgeable of how things play out at higher pet levels. But no droid should be as tough as a Rancor. I’d say the best combat droid should max out at 2/3 the level of the best pet.
4) DE can never command more than 2 droids at once. This is mostly a balance thing, but I think any DE could live with that. Ideas/suggestions?
Philomorph wrote:
Um, are you high? How is a droid different from a gun? Let's see...
I can say to an LLC, "Shoot that guy over there." What happens? NOTHING.
I can say to a droideka, "Kill that guy over there." What happens? It kills him.
Which requires more skill to use to kill someone?
Jenden, if a programmed computer understands a command you give it, that computer is going to execute that command.
That's the problem here.
If the DE has programmed the droid to understand "kill" as a command to kill the thing its master is pointing at, where is the skill involved?
There isn't any.
No matter how complex the computer brain, IF IT UNDERSTANDS THE COMMAND YOU GIVE IT, IT WILL EXECUTE THAT COMMAND.
Korbus wrote:
Jenden, if a programmed computer understands a command you give it, that computer is going to execute that command.
That's the problem here.
If the DE has programmed the droid to understand "kill" as a command to kill the thing its master is pointing at, where is the skill involved?
There isn't any.
No matter how complex the computer brain, IF IT UNDERSTANDS THE COMMAND YOU GIVE IT, IT WILL EXECUTE THAT COMMAND.
I realize I'm late posting here so I doubt TH will see my answer. But I thought I'd put in my 2 credits anyway...
I think the general feeling is that DEs do not want *anyone* to be a droid-based creature handler clone. They don't want the droids just for themselves, and they don't want other people to use them if they cannot.
For myself, I think droids should be a supplement for anyone. They should allownon-combat characters a chance to contribute to group combats, and they should provide a slight edge for elite combatants over their peers without droids. Droids should not be anywhere near the individual power level of high-level creatures. In fact, droids shouldn't need to go above CL 10 or 15 in my opinion. I would peg the best combat droid as being an even match for a Master Marksman or Brawler who has no elite combat profession.
If droids remain at this low level of power, and instead have options for versatility (acid droid, fire droid), and non-combat modules (storage, crafting), they do not need to match creatures in raw power. If they stay at a low power level, then they do not unbalance the game any more than CL10 creature pets, and thus anyone can use them.
either way there is a way to balance it must be the DEVS to choice to do the right thing here, if you make a droid handler i wont be selling droids anymore, i enjoy playing the game but im not here to be a metal makingversion of a BE.or Combat Engineer
Plageron wrote:
I prefer Vehicle Operator or Perhaps Mecha-Pilot(Droid Pilot)
This post is going to involve a little off-topic information, but on-topic aswell...
First off, from day one, I've NEVER supported this whole combat droid idea. We build machines that help out people in the world. Help with tasks, basically to make life easier for people. Droids that generate power, droids that maintain, droids that transport items, droids that assist in healing, etc. COMBAT IS ONLY ONE PART OF SWG LIFE, AND THEREFORE ONLY NEEDS ABOUT ONE DROID TO ASSIST IT.
Yes, idealy, we'd be able to build a droid that could be of service toanyone, no matter the profession. There are combatants, therfore a combat droid is in call. I'm happy with the probots that we have now, and I'm sure that combat classes wouldn't mind them either, if they were not so weak. All that has to be done is this. Raise the HAM to make it useful (not so much that it brings down the value of pets), and maybe give the option to decide if it's a ranged probot, or a melee probot (through module). WE ARE NOT A COMBAT CLASS. I'd be SOOOOO much more happy if instead of all this combat content, we were just given the power to build USEFUL DROIDS.
Do we NEED 6 levels of data storage? Does anyone want a level 1 medical module? Is a repair module that can only repair OTHER droids desired by the customers? I'd guess that these answers are no. I think the biggest problem with droids is this... WE HAVE THE SAME CONTENT OVER, AND OVER AGAIN! Sure, the bar is raised with each level, but it basically just puts the last level of module into the garbage. Reduce the module level to 3, we don't need 6, and add new ones that help other potential customers. Entertainment module, for example.
Make certain droids restricted to certain modules. An MSE droid should not be able to havea repair module for example... it doesn't have a manipulator arm. I wouldn't trust my wounds with a Probot either. Restrict certain modules, and abilities to certain droids. Instead of having so many different levels of modules, just make it so the profession unlocks a new schematic through the skill boxes. Skill boxes could be "Medical Droids", "Combat Droids", "Resource Droids", etc.
But it's a little late for all of that, seeing that the "Droid Invasion" has allready been completed and such. Not that I mean any disrespect to the developers, I'm VERY content with how they handle the game, the community, and the content. GREAT job, all of you. I just don't like the droid invasion concept.
WE DON'T NEED A CREATURE HANDLER PROFESSION WITH BATTERIES! We don't need 2 professions that are exactly the same, and the only difference is the kind of pet used. What would be the difference between Creature Handler and Droid Handler, aside from "One uses creatures, one uses droids"? It's not worthy of it's own profession (Droid Handler). Us DEs have enough skills taken up with basically NEEDING both Master Droid Engineer, and Master Artisan (Hey, I can build vehicles, AND basic cakes!) to be happy. WE WANT TO USE OUR PRODUCTS... adding Droid Handler would just give us another profession that we'd have to master.
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Someone earlier mentioned:
"Somehow they turned the problem of someone with 3 ATST out at the same time, into one dinky pet for everyone except CH."
That's a great point. So, I give you this idea...
I think that they should just move the Creature Level code over for everyone. Something like this... each pet (troops, creatures, droid) should have a level. You can have a maximum of 3 pets out at a time, but you cannot go past a certain level. An ST, for example, would meet the level so that is the only pet you could have out at the moment. Weaker pets could be something like this. Basic Troop PL (Pet Level) 5, Soldier Droid PL 6, Beetle PL 4. If 15 was the maximum level of collaborated pets, you would fill it. Likewise, you could have 1 stronger Droid, and 1 stronger troop, or 2 weaker troops, and 1 medium creature. This would apply to EVERYONE, and how they handle pets, not just profession specific.
I had more to say, but now I forget it all, heh...