Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Sodan's Hybrid DE Proposal
Right now, this is the only viable alterantive on the table man. Its the only one with community support and YOU are shooting it down. We are tying to BUILD something and you are trying to TEARING it down.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
duncje wrote:
Your whole argument is based on the fact that DE is a full-fledged crafting profession. We are not. There is not a market for our droids, as there is a market for weapons or armor or harvesters or food. We are half of a crafting profession at best. The devs are leery in giving us "checkers" that would have a market, so what's wrong in filling in the missing half with some combat skills?
Which gives a bigger market for droids:
(a) Allowing persons across all professions to spend extra skill points to gain droid handling ability in a 2-tree mini-profession; or
(b) Forcing people who want combat droids to grindcrafting professions (artisan and DE), some of whom will enter the DE market and compete with you.
Arcid wrote:
Daker One very simple Question: Do you want higher level combat droids added to the game? If you do you're going the wrong way about it. Right now you're picking holes in the most promising proposal without attempting to develop your proposal further than a single scentence If you feel so strongly about it get your plan more thought out, make a thread in the forums and see if you can get people to discuss it and see how it can be improved, see if people would support it (After all, two fully fleshed out plans would be better than one). As it is, all you're doing is apparantly trying to erode any chance we have of getting higher level combat droids. You've voiced all your objections several times over in this thread, so here's the challange. Either do the work and produce a better option, or stop trolling. It's Put up or Shut up time
Acrid,
That is a great idea.
I REALLY REALLY REALLY want to. I have been wanting to all day. They problem is, that these guys have blinders on and are 100% fanatic about their idea. If I post a competing plan, it will be one-starred into oblivion and flamed just because I posted it and because Sodan doesn't like it. Unless I can get a fair share and logical consideration, I'm notgoing to open that can of worms and invite a further flame war.
If everyone agrees they can be civil, I will post my idea (which I actually wrote up over a month ago). If not, it's not worth it.
Additionally, stop calling me a troll. That is twice, and I have been posting on the DE boards just as long, if not longer, than you.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
duncje wrote:
CH's get combat tanks and damage, do they spend any skill points in Combat skills? NO. And they can tame their own pets, so that equals the "crafting" ability that you're claiming the DE dabbler gets under this proposal (which is a false assumption).
I had given up on you, but I will try again.
There are 2 kinds of xp a CH needs to get CL36 pets.
(1) Scout xp - you get scout xp by killing a bunch of things and harvesting them (28 skill points earned, 15 bought)
(2) CH xp - you get ch xp by killing things with pets (34 skill points earned).
Ok, so both involve killing things.
There are 2 types of xp this proposal calls for:
(1) Combat xp (14 skill points earned, 15 bought)
(2) Crafting xp (28 skill points earned, 15 bought)
So I hope you can see the difference...62 skill points worth of combat killing compared to 14 worth. See the big difference?
The difference isn't as big as you claim. Tothe developers, skill points are skill points. As long as equal amounts of skill points are used in gaining skills of equivalent level, they are ok with that. It doesn't matter how long it takes or how much exp is spent in the process. And spending 78 skill points to control level 30ish droids is equivalent to spending 77 skill points to control level 36 pets. There is not that much crafting ability granted, and it can be thrown out with the harvesting skills you get in scout, as the crafting comes from a novice profession.
And CH xp is not only gained by killing things. You can gain CH xp by taming creatures, or training them. You don't have to kill a single thing to gain CH xp.
The guantlet is thrown down, Daker. Five credits says he responds with more hot air rather than a plan that walks the middle ground for all camps in this community and gives combat droids to players who earn them.
Arcid wrote:
Daker One very simple Question: Do you want higher level combat droids added to the game? If you do you're going the wrong way about it. Right now you're picking holes in the most promising proposal without attempting to develop your proposal further than a single scentence If you feel so strongly about it get your plan more thought out, make a thread in the forums and see if you can get people to discuss it and see how it can be improved, see if people would support it (After all, two fully fleshed out plans would be better than one). As it is, all you're doing is apparantly trying to erode any chance we have of getting higher level combat droids. You've voiced all your objections several times over in this thread, so here's the challange. Either do the work and produce a better option, or stop trolling. It's Put up or Shut up time
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Right now, this is the only viable alterantive on the table man. Its the only one with community support and YOU are shooting it down. We are tying to BUILD something and you are trying to TEARING it down.
It is not the only viable alternative, just the flavor of the month. There have been many viable alternatives already posted.
I will agree to post mine to demonstrate that if you will agree not to flame me.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Arcid wrote:
Daker One very simple Question: Do you want higher level combat droids added to the game? If you do you're going the wrong way about it. Right now you're picking holes in the most promising proposal without attempting to develop your proposal further than a single scentence If you feel so strongly about it get your plan more thought out, make a thread in the forums and see if you can get people to discuss it and see how it can be improved, see if people would support it (After all, two fully fleshed out plans would be better than one). As it is, all you're doing is apparantly trying to erode any chance we have of getting higher level combat droids. You've voiced all your objections several times over in this thread, so here's the challange. Either do the work and produce a better option, or stop trolling. It's Put up or Shut up time
Acrid,
That is a great idea.
I REALLY REALLY REALLY want to. I have been wanting to all day. They problem is, that these guys have blinders on and are 100% fanatic about their idea. If I post a competing plan, it will be one-starred into oblivion and flamed just because I posted it and because Sodan doesn't like it. Unless I can get a fair share and logical consideration, I'm notgoing to open that can of worms and invite a further flame war.
If everyone agrees they can be civil, I will post my idea (which I actually wrote up over a month ago). If not, it's not worth it.
Additionally, stop calling me a troll. That is twice, and I have been posting on the DE boards just as long, if not longer, than you.
Where's my violin? The guy calling people a jerk is afraid to be one-starred. This is the market place of ideas. So far your wares ain't selling cause 1) you're not offering anything and 2) all your doing is standing by a crowded both and saying "Ignore the shiny droideka; it sux."
Quit whining and put out a REAL plan that takes into account ALL of the DE camps -- not just the "pure crafter" camp -- AND provides a market for droids AND gives combat template makers combat droids for earning points. I will be the first person tofive-star you so your opinion can be heard. Heck if its better than the plan that WE have devloped I'll vote for it too.
Otherwise, your objections have been noted and in my opinion resoundingly rebutted.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Right now, this is the only viable alterantive on the table man. Its the only one with community support and YOU are shooting it down. We are tying to BUILD something and you are trying to TEARING it down.
It is not the only viable alternative, just the flavor of the month. There have been many viable alternatives already posted.
I will agree to post mine to demonstrate that if you will agree not to flame me.
See my post above. I will five-star you even if I dont like the plan. If I like it I will vote for it. If I dont I'll let that be known. I resent you calling this plan flavor of the month, but being flippant and rude is your style I suppose.
You had your chance to CONTRIBUTE to this plan before we formalized it. You "ignored" it instead. That's too bad. Knocking down a wall is always easier than building it. Thank god this one has a SOLID foundation.
Before you go to the drawing board, answer this question:
EVERY profession that has pre-reqs in two starting professions requires 15 skillpoints/each that must be purchased. Are you saying there is something wrong with the way the devs did that? Answer this point, Daker; I wanna see you try.
If you have it, post it (Hint: Do not post it as a direct opposition to this plan, the idea is to get the proposal fleshed out, not to engage in one-uppmanship) otherwise I think that most people will assume that you have no plans, and are just attempting to scupper a good idea because you don't happen to like the method of implementation (I know that's what I'll think if you make no constructive posts)
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Arcid wrote:
Daker One very simple Question: Do you want higher level combat droids added to the game? If you do you're going the wrong way about it. Right now you're picking holes in the most promising proposal without attempting to develop your proposal further than a single scentence If you feel so strongly about it get your plan more thought out, make a thread in the forums and see if you can get people to discuss it and see how it can be improved, see if people would support it (After all, two fully fleshed out plans would be better than one). As it is, all you're doing is apparantly trying to erode any chance we have of getting higher level combat droids. You've voiced all your objections several times over in this thread, so here's the challange. Either do the work and produce a better option, or stop trolling. It's Put up or Shut up time
Acrid,
That is a great idea.
I REALLY REALLY REALLY want to. I have been wanting to all day. They problem is, that these guys have blinders on and are 100% fanatic about their idea. If I post a competing plan, it will be one-starred into oblivion and flamed just because I posted it and because Sodan doesn't like it. Unless I can get a fair share and logical consideration, I'm notgoing to open that can of worms and invite a further flame war.
If everyone agrees they can be civil, I will post my idea (which I actually wrote up over a month ago). If not, it's not worth it.
Additionally, stop calling me a troll. That is twice, and I have been posting on the DE boards just as long, if not longer, than you.
I agree. We need a plan to get combat droids in the game in a way that the devs will agree to that is NOT the Droid Handler profession since 90%+ of the community has rejected that idea.
Arcid wrote:
If you have it, post it (Hint: Do not post it as a direct opposition to this plan, the idea is to get the proposal fleshed out, not to engage in one-uppmanship) otherwise I think that most people will assume that you have no plans, and are just attempting to scupper a good idea because you don't happen to like the method of implementation (I know that's what I'll think if you make no constructive posts)
It's not a competition to try to get your idea accepted over everyone elses, it's about getting good ideas developed to the point that we can give them to the Devs. Right now all I've seen you do is attempt to tear down one idea, and not provide anything else
You didn't answer my question. What's wrong with filling the other half with combat skills?
Daker-Naritus wrote:
duncje wrote:
Your whole argument is based on the fact that DE is a full-fledged crafting profession. We are not. There is not a market for our droids, as there is a market for weapons or armor or harvesters or food. We are half of a crafting profession at best. The devs are leery in giving us "checkers" that would have a market, so what's wrong in filling in the missing half with some combat skills?
Which gives a bigger market for droids:
(a) Allowing persons across all professions to spend extra skill points to gain droid handling ability in a 2-tree mini-profession; or
(b) Forcing people who want combat droids to grindcrafting professions (artisan and DE), some of whom will enter the DE market and compete with you.
Thats the thing, Duncje. It all comes down to playstyle preference for Daker. He has yet to refute the equal skillpoints for equal pet lvls argument. There is nothing "wrong", unless you just don't like the idea. It actually fits perfectly for a HYBRID profession.
duncje wrote:
You didn't answer my question. What's wrong with filling the other half with combat skills?
Daker-Naritus wrote:
duncje wrote:
Your whole argument is based on the fact that DE is a full-fledged crafting profession. We are not. There is not a market for our droids, as there is a market for weapons or armor or harvesters or food. We are half of a crafting profession at best. The devs are leery in giving us "checkers" that would have a market, so what's wrong in filling in the missing half with some combat skills?
Which gives a bigger market for droids:
(a) Allowing persons across all professions to spend extra skill points to gain droid handling ability in a 2-tree mini-profession; or
(b) Forcing people who want combat droids to grindcrafting professions (artisan and DE), some of whom will enter the DE market and compete with you.
I may have missed something skimming through 14 pages of posts, but in general I like the proposal. It seems to satisfy all of the various concerns raised by developers and players.
But I have one question that I didn't catch in my skimmings:
How might we call more than 1 NON-combat droid at a time? If we assume that droids with no combat modules are CL 5 or less, will it be possible for us to call more than one of them. For example, I can picture an entertainer who might like a trio ofprotocol droids "dancing" from patrol point to patrol point, or a Luke-wanna-be with R2-D2 and C-3P0 following him around town.
This also impacts theissue of how an MDE (without the combat line) can use his own power/repair droids to recharge or repair his other droids.
One possible answer:
Swap the "number of droids" and "droid levels" in the tree. So, a 0/0/4/0 DE can call out 2 droids, but is limited to CL 10. The combat skill (Ranged Support line) is where the higher CLdroids are opened, but without 0/0/4/0 DE they cannot call outthe high-level droids (butcan store them).So a pure crafter DE can call 2 droids, but is limited to CL 10 total.
Arcid wrote:
If you have it, post it (Hint: Do not post it as a direct opposition to this plan, the idea is to get the proposal fleshed out, not to engage in one-uppmanship) otherwise I think that most people will assume that you have no plans, and are just attempting to scupper a good idea because you don't happen to like the method of implementation (I know that's what I'll think if you make no constructive posts)
Your wish is my command:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=69594