Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Discussion: Hand-crafting vs. Factory-crafting (relating to Quality of product)
Straker_Atrella wrote:
The thing is that Hand crafted good are EXACTLY as good as Factory goods. You can compete, your items are just as good. You CHOOSE to hand craft because you like the feel of it better. Nothing stops you from factory crafting, you just don't want too.
Drashk, you seem to dislike the fact that people with multiple accounts have an edge. Of course everybody should have fun, but another account SHOULD give you an edge. After all your paying RL money for it. Again people choose to get another account or not.
Wanting hand crafting to be better to compete with people having multiple accounts just isn't fair. That is EXACTLY like saying that since some people have Doctor alts, that Docs with only one account should give better buffs. Where does it stop?
Its not that I want hand crafting to be better so that it can compete really, I could care less about competition. I want it to reflect the custom feel hand crafted items generally have. The simplest/most obvious way to do this is through small stat bonuses, but something else would work too (some kind of unique and very noticeable customization options for example. Just has to be something conveys the personalized touch).
I *am* a single player account. I have a master artisan, master droid engineer, master merchant.
I don't need to go off and do other things. I love being a droid engineer.
I'm a casual player because I can only afford to spend a couple hours a day playing.
To be able to enjoy playing as a droid engineer, factories are indispensible.
If factories are screwed over and make worse stuff, the casual single account player is screwed.
This is why I kept emphasizing that Drashk and TK had to describe who it was that they were helping.
They imply that they are helping the casual player, but this is patently not the case.
Obviously they are not helping the powergamer.
To my mind, the only person that they are helping is someone who doesn't really care about being a crafter but only wants to idly toy with the profession... but still wants the rewards of being better than anyone else.
To me this smacks of decadent dilettantism.
I believe that the only people served by nerfing factories in favor of handcrafting are the people who don't want to be crafters in the first place.
Someone who has a single account, is a casual gamer, and cares about crafting won't have time to hand craft everything.
Certainly this doesn't help powergamers.
Drashk's and TK's proposed nerf to factories doesn't help anyone except people who don't really care about being crafters in the first place.
This is why it is so upsetting.
Never mind the fact that just about everyone else has come to some kind of concensus of shared compromise, Drashk just continues to push his agenda for a factory nerf.
It seems like there has to be some sort of motivation that he has not clarified -- certainly none of his arguments thus far have been compelling. He just baldly asserts that handcrafting should be better than factory crafting like it should be self-apparent.
WHY???
Who does this serve? Why is it good to destroy the fun of the many just to make Drashk happy?
With this I do not agree. There's no avoiding the fact the people with multiple accounts are going to get an edge, but effort should be made to minimize it because it is not fair. I have two accounts because I want to experience both the combat and crafting side of the game, but I personally have no desire to play a game where the person who pays the most money to play wins.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Drashk, you seem to dislike the fact that people with multiple accounts have an edge. Of course everybody should have fun, but another account SHOULD give you an edge. After all your paying RL money for it. Again people choose to get another account or not.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Wanting hand crafting to be better to compete with people having multiple accounts just isn't fair. That is EXACTLY like saying that since some people have Doctor alts, that Docs with only one account should give better buffs. Where does it stop?
We debated this notion very early in the thread. I'm fine with giving things the personal touch for hand crafting, but it's not generally true that hand-crafted goods are really better in RL, so there is no justification for making hand crafted goods generally better than factory crafted ones based on this notion.
Jenden wrote:
Its not that I want hand crafting to be better so that it can compete really, I could care less about competition. I want it to reflect the custom feel hand crafted items generally have. The simplest/most obvious way to do this is through small stat bonuses, but something else would work too (some kind of unique and very noticeable customization options for example. Just has to be something conveys the personalized touch).
Exactly. If you aren't willing to spend resources and money getting factories integrated into your buisness do you really deserve the ability to simple "hand craft" something thats more uber than everything else?
Straker_Atrella wrote:
If you think that Factory and Hand ccrafting should be balanced to each other, I disagree. They should be balanced to themselves, each with pluses and minuses, and they already are. Hand crafting or factory crafting is a choice, nothing stops either side from doing the other.
Drashk wrote:
I'm not saying that Factory Crafting is inherently wrong. I am saying that if Factory Crafting becomes the standard of how someone has to craft in order to compete with the rest of the market, then we need to rethink how hand crafting is done.
Why? If it's not wrong?
Most Weapon sales, Armor sales, and Havester sales come strictly from Factory run end products. This in of itself is not wrong. Its the fact that in order to compete with the Factory Crafters you have to be able to produce as many products as they can, so that you can keep your vendor as well stocked, to keep people coming back, or provide a steady number of items that are different in some positive way.
Ok, hold on. You're saying in the first place that factory crafting "isn't wrong" but then you're claiming that people can't compete with them and therefore action needs to be taken against them. Why? (rephrased of earlier question).
If you browse the armorsmith and doctor forums, you'll find about once every 2 months a request to lower the amount of hide required per armor piece (armorsmith) or that buff packs not require avian meat but possibly carnivore, wild or [x] meat that can be gotten easier. High end schematics are designed to have elements which limit their production. In fact, all craftable items have elements that were originally intended to limit production. Factory identical sub components are a good example. T21's require 10 identical blaster power handler's. 1000 handlers make 100 T21's. Limit the factory to producing 100 items and you have 10 identical T21's which can be bought out by 1 individual trying to get a good slice on one of them. Our own Advanced droid brain is a good example. Lets say again the factory is limited to 100 items. 100 EMM/EGP's = 25 Adv. Droid brains = 12 Adv. R3's and 1 Adv. R2. This is why there was a outcry about the factories being limited to 100 items. Some professions couldn't keep up with the demand for their product.
If you want to blame something for the overabundance of product, don't blame the factory. Blame what goes into the factory.
And again, I'm listing items that are only focusing on one aspect of the Hand Crafting vs Factory Crafting debate.......
You've got a good head on your shoulders. It's good to realize faults. However, I think we need to iron out "what exactly is the problem?"
Malitevv wrote:
We debated this notion very early in the thread. I'm fine with giving things the personal touch for hand crafting, but it's not generally true that hand-crafted goods are really better in RL, so there is no justification for making hand crafted goods generally better than factory crafted ones based on this notion.
Jenden wrote:
It depends on the item your talking about. There's no way someone can make an integrated circuit by hand (in any reasonable size), but I can guarantee you I can build a computer myself better than anyindustrial factoryout there.
It does depend. That is true. And I'd actually be fine with some schematics functioning better in factories than others. Am just oppossed to this notion that hand-crafted is necessarily better than a factory.
Malitevv wrote:
Jenden wrote:
It depends on the item your talking about. There's no way someone can make an integrated circuit by hand (in any reasonable size), but I can guarantee you I can build a computer myself better than anyindustrial factoryout there.
It does depend. That is true. And I'd actually be fine with some schematics functioning better in factories than others. Am just oppossed to this notion that hand-crafted is necessarily better than a factory.
yea, I'm not a big fan of most sub-components getting a bonus (if for no other reason then the bonuses could start stacking and getting out of hand), but the problem comes in that if you do this kind of large change its hard to categorize schematics (from a database/programming perspective).