Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Discussion: Hand-crafting vs. Factory-crafting (relating to Quality of product)
Malitevv wrote:
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Drashk, I read all of that and understand what you are saying. I just don't understand what you claim is stopping the person from one account from making factory runs? Sure with less lots, it may take longer, but he is just as capable of making a run of 100 droids as somebody else.
Nothing stops the single account owner, or casual player from using factories. They choose not too, which is a playstyle choice. Did you read my thread where I broke down Powergaing, casual, and hand crafting all against each other.
It seems like your mixing up the arguements all together, when they are not the same.
But Drashk does have a point there. The single account player can run factories if he wants to, which gives him lots of in-game free time, but then what is he able to do with the free time that the factories have saved him? His single character is a crafter, and very possibly a merchant. He might have a few combat skills too, but his options are considerably limited. Once all his factories are up and running, the only thing for him to do is to sit around and twiddle his thumbs. Or socialize in game, or something. But he doesn't have the options of running off and doing the corvette or anything else heavily combat based because he has only a single toon and has used that toons skill points for crafting.
I understand a little bit of what Drashk is getting at in this respect now. There isn't enough for non-combat professions to do in-game. If they had an incentive and reason to hand-craft, there would be more for them to do. They'd likely run factories too. But I really don't think factories are the point. Not really. The point I see drashk getting at is that the crafting "end-game" is a "lots of free time with nothing else to do" sort of game. You and I, have dealt with it by buying another account and using the extra skill points to run off and explore the combat side of the game. But the single account player is stuck. Maybe he does need more content.
Not sure it is going to work though, if that is the goal. I see upcoming MMORPG's are separating the crafting and combat professsions so each character can freely choose an unrestricted path in both directions without the choices along one path restricting the options in the other. That is probably the better game design....
Ok, I can see that now. While taking the discussion to the casual gamer vs powergamer side again, it does have a valid point about nothing to do.
Then you should be asking to make crafting more fun, so you have more to do, not to "balance" it or the game. Not saying Drashk or even Tk took it in that direction, but that is where it went.
I'm all for the non-combatents having more stuff to do in this game. That is what I like about it, if I get bored crafting, I kill, or vice versa, it would suck to not have those options.
Hand crafting for that reason though is contrary to a huge majority of the arguements set here though.
Malitevv wrote:
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Drashk, I read all of that and understand what you are saying. I just don't understand what you claim is stopping the person from one account from making factory runs? Sure with less lots, it may take longer, but he is just as capable of making a run of 100 droids as somebody else.
Nothing stops the single account owner, or casual player from using factories. They choose not too, which is a playstyle choice. Did you read my thread where I broke down Powergaing, casual, and hand crafting all against each other.
It seems like your mixing up the arguements all together, when they are not the same.
But Drashk does have a point there. The single account player can run factories if he wants to, which gives him lots of in-game free time, but then what is he able to do with the free time that the factories have saved him? His single character is a crafter, and very possibly a merchant. He might have a few combat skills too, but his options are considerably limited. Once all his factories are up and running, the only thing for him to do is to sit around and twiddle his thumbs. Or socialize in game, or something. But he doesn't have the options of running off and doing the corvette or anything else heavily combat based because he has only a single toon and has used that toons skill points for crafting.
I understand a little bit of what Drashk is getting at in this respect now. There isn't enough for non-combat professions to do in-game. If they had an incentive and reason to hand-craft, there would be more for them to do. They'd likely run factories too. But I really don't think factories are the point. Not really. The point I see drashk getting at is that the crafting "end-game" is a "lots of free time with nothing else to do" sort of game. You and I, have dealt with it by buying another account and using the extra skill points to run off and explore the combat side of the game. But the single account player is stuck. Maybe he does need more content.
The problem is, both of you are correct. Everyone, including myself, is to focused on one or two aspects of the whole. The more I look at the Hand Crafting vs. Factory Crafting issue, the more I begin to understand that what ever is is suggested must encompass a lot of what has been touched upon here, including things that I don't agree with 
The Crafting end-game, concerns of the Hand vs Factory, and even a loot/credit system need to be addressed as a whole. Much like Combat is going to see a Revamp, so should Crafting.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Drashk, what do you think of my (our) idea on the other thread, for the Crafting Insight Bonus Credits? I think this may add some "fun" to crafting.
Ya mean I have to keep up with more then one thread now? 
I'll post comments on it there.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Yet hand crafting is a choice that you make. Nothing forces you to hand craft or factory craft. Each does have it's pluses and minuses. You simply choose which you want to do.
I'm on the bandwagon with Drashk saying hand crafting needs to be more fun. I don't agree that the pluses and minuses of hand crafting are not balanced.
see to me they are one in the same makeing it more fun is a plus and there by balances it
Message Edited by babyblue_d on 09-15-2004 04:03 PM
Straker_Atrella wrote:
So is your goal to make it more fun for the people who hand craft, or to make hand crafting better so more people do it?
Yes.
But let us clear up that what is meant by 'better'. To me, better means that it would be a better system that we see now, but only related to itself. It would not be intended to replace Factory Crafting, which is a tried and true method of crafting for the masses. Creating a Reward/Risk system that is geared towards only hand crafting would bring more hand crafted goods into the market that we see now, which is 90% comprised of Factory Crafted items.
One of the many points that I think people have missed in the entire Factory vs Hand issue isn't making one better then the other. Its making it so that both can be considered viable options in the future market.
As I pointed out above, when you have two options available, but one option shows a much higher benefit as is in the case of Factories, the second option no longer is seen as a viable option in a competitive market.
With the exception of Bio-Engineer creatures, uber loot drop components such as Krayt scales, custom orders, and most droids, 90% of all sales come from Factory Crafted items in todays game market. If you don't believe me on this, take a look around on your server and compare each and every serial number that you run across.
I'm not saying that Factory Crafting is inherently wrong. I am saying that if Factory Crafting becomes the standard of how someone has to craft in order to compete with the rest of the market, then we need to rethink how hand crafting is done.
Most Weapon sales, Armor sales, and Havester sales come strictly from Factory run end products. This in of itself is not wrong. Its the fact that in order to compete with the Factory Crafters you have to be able to produce as many products as they can, so that you can keep your vendor as well stocked, to keep people coming back, or provide a steady number of items that are different in some positive way.
The only other suggest that I have that could be done to help 'level the playing field' between Factory Crafters and Hand Crafters, would be to slow production times on all Factories, or increase Factory production time but make it so that the person would have to be online while the goods are being produced.
The wayI see it, though I could be seeing it differently then others see it, is not to make Hand Crafting more desireable. The goal is to make hand crafting as desireable as factory crating.
If people chose to take up a profession, they should actually play the profession, instead of having a factory play the profession for them. I may earn some flax for that statement, however when people buy mulitple accounts just to have a crafter that can supply them with X item and make a few credits at the same time, it devalues the people with one account that are trying to play the best game that they can, with only that one account.
People are competitive by nature, at least most of the time. Factories make it so that there really is only one way to compete for business, in some professions, by offering the largest number of items that you can. You have to remember what I said earlier...People are Impulse buyers. There are a number of things that will keep the average person coming back to the same shop...Good quality items and a vendor that always has a large selection of items. Currently, Factories can fill both of these niches. So this makes hand crafting less desireable to a large volume of people.
And again, I'm listing items that are only focusing on one aspect of the Hand Crafting vs Factory Crafting debate.......
Jenden wrote:
I keep seeing that hand crafting is just a lower form of crafting... and I have to ask why? In my opinion hand crafting is a different style, more of an artistic one if you will (not in the actual crafting process, but in the concept). Why is it that it should be worse than factory crafting just because its different?
Concept set aside Jenden, Do you see Hand crafting as viable as Factory Crafting, when it comes to providing goods and services to your customers?
By viable I mean can you stay competitive with someone that does their crafting via factories, with the same amount of time spent ingame?
Drashk wrote:
Concept set aside Jenden, Do you see Hand crafting as viable as Factory Crafting, when it comes to providing goods and services to your customers?
By viable I mean can you stay competitive with someone that does their crafting via factories, with the same amount of time spent ingame?