Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Moving On To Combat Droid Certifications -- Who Gets To Use Combat Droids?
Ok, folks Drashk's point in my "Who Wants to Play a DE Who Can't Use All His/Her Droids" thread is well taken; we should move on to a discussion on combat droid certifications. So, taking a page from Daker-Naritus' post, I'm lauching this discussion on combat droid certifications.
For those new to the debate, the question here is who gets to use strong andmedium combat droids. We assume that everyone will be able to use the droids they can use today, but what about the stronger, more powerful combat droids? Obviously some balance is required, as is evident by how the devs implemented balance for creature pets. Certifications generally refer to having to have a certain skill level before you can use a particular item or pet (kind of like weapons, or the CL level limitations of CH pets, but those are only examples).
Assume for this discussion, that all bugs will be fixed and that we do not know the stats of the new combat droids. That said:
What does every one think of Daker-Naritus' proposal on combat droid certifications below? If you don't like it, what do you propose?
Daker-Naritus wrote:
My idea on how combat droids should be implemented is this:
(1) All classes can use all current droids
(2) In every novice elite combat profession (pistoleer, commando, BH, teras kasi, etc.) the person gets a cert for a medium power combat droid.
(3) At novice DE, the person gets a cert for both medium andstrong combat droids (DE advantage = strong instead of medium droid)
(4) In every master combat profession, the person gets a cert for a strong combat droid.
(5) At master DE, the person gets the ability to handle 2 droids, including 2 strong combat droids (DE advantage = 2 strong droids instead of one)
I feel a [Master] DE should be able to handle 3-4 droids at once. 1-2 combat, one repair (fixed please) and one power maybe? Elite Combat professionsat master lvl should be able to useONEheavy lvl droid. The DE's put a lot of time into their product and I feel that it should be a hybrid (not in required skills, just in theory) profession, Combat/Crafting. I'm a DE/Chef, And I'd really love to get in on the field and throw out my droids to help in raids and hunts.
MDE- 4 Droids, 2 combat Max.
Novice DE- 2 Droids 1 medium combat.
DE ladders= +1 droidfor for 3 ladders.
Non-DE+Non-Elite Combat- 1 Light lvlcombatdroid.
Elite Combat Profession- 1 Medium combat droid
Master Elite-2 droids, 1Heavy combat droid
Crafting Professions (Elite Novices)- 2 droids out at a time. 1 medium combat.
Hopefully there is a way for these plus' not to stack.
Elite combat classes derived from Marksmen and Brawler get medium droid at a level 1 box (same as dmg mitigation 1). Perhaps masters of Marksmen and Brawler get the same cert.
Master of elite combat class get heavy combat droids.
Squad leader gets +1 medium combat droid, +2 at master and/or Heavy combat droid.
Nobody else has combat droid certs. ie no crafters, no scouts or rangers, CHs BEs, Docs etc.
Well to be honest I see this as more of a game balancing issue , but the method outlined sounds good but I cant see no reason why novice elite combat profession andmaster elite combat proffession , why not leave it up to the individual person whether they spend 100k on a combat droid if they wish.
Of course it would entirely depend on the strength of the medium/strong combat droids and as I say this would be more of a game balancing issue re a novice musian with a medium combat droid wrt to a novice pistolleer with a probot (weak combat droid)
Ok. Not that i wouldnt love to own this uber combat droid here are my issues with droid eng haveing combat capabilities.
1. There is no prerec what so ever in the combat line to droid eng. Ch must take scout=makes since.
2. Do bio-eng have some uber pet they can use. No because they are crafters for the ch profession.
3. Ch isnt a craftng prof. They tame beasts in the wild.
4. Droid eng mustobtain resources to craft a droid.Just like a weaponsmith, architech or any other crafting prof, there isnothing in there line that applies to combat. Even more so then any other prof we rely on master artisian, the only single class in game that actually rely on master artisian, the master of the crafting class.
SO explain to me how we have moved into a combat class or were any of the line applies to combat other then hey it would be pretty cool to have an uber droid noone else has???
Not once in the many previous posts have a seen a single good argument how this prof is a combat prof.
Like it or not we are the ONLY true Master of the crafting prof.
Now should there be a mechanical ch, hmm maybe but i dont think its de.
Also i wouldnt mind haveing a uber droid i can use as a mde, But i sure dont understand it.
Going with the assumption that there are 3 levels of combat droids, low (current existing), medium and high:
- Lowavailable to all professions as currently implemented.
- Medium available to all novices or higher of any elite profession.
- High available at tier 2 for elite combat professions in their Combat Experience line
- High available to DEs at tier 2 of one of our lines. Probably Droid Construction would make sense.
- High available to other non-combat professions at Master level
- At tier 2 in a different line, DE's can call out two droids at once. However, at least one must be non-combat.
This makes it so the DEs can control combat droids as well as combatants but not in such a manner that it is overpowered.
The major concern I have with a DE pulling out two combat droids is that it lends itself too strongly towards over powering. I could easily be an MDE with 2 heavy combat droids as well as a Master elite in any brawler or marksman profession. That's just too powerful.
We need to be careful to temper our desires with enough balance that it will be implemented and not nerfed later. Or, at least, not nerfed too bad.
I don't like the idea as you have presented it because it gives Droid Engineers a combat advantage that they neither need nor deserve.
Furthermore, I suspect that play balance problems will prevent combat classes from being allowed to use any "strong" combat droids. If a CL 15 pet is too strong for a combat class to have, then don't you think that a CL 15 droid would be deemed too strong also?
My guess would be that for the system to be approved it needs to be inverted. That is, only non-combat professions will have access to the strongest combat droids. And as usualy, there is simply no reason for Droid Engineers to be treated differently than any other non-combat profession.
So, to re-work the system, it looks like this:
1) All professions can use all current droids.
2) In every Novice Elite non-combat profession a certification is earned that allows the use of medium power combat droids. Combat professions do not gain this certification at this time.
3) At the Master level of every non-combat profession, a certification is earned that allows the use of the strongest combat droids.
4) If play balance allows, combat professions could gain a certification to use medium power combat droids at an appropriate level (whether that is Novice or Master).
Unfortunately, it is the combat classes that would use the combat droid the most. What I would like to see is that combat droids have a low HAM rating because of the armor plating and resists we can stack on it, but have a higher than normal damage per second ratio than your comparitive BE or CH creature. Take for instance the used to be CL10 rock beetle and the current probot. The probot tanks better than the rock beetle, yet has a lower HAM. A poorly made probot with many vulnerabilities will be a bottom rung combat droid as vulnerabilities means that 810 HAM will be gone in seconds. This gives variety to the droids.
And because of this lower HAM to equivalent BE/CH creatures, ALL droids should be usable by EVERYONE. This will keep our market large. This will keep us busy crafting and having fun. This will not lead to only the "elite" having the combat droids.
One of the important things to keep in mind is that higher level Elite Combat professions don't usually believe in using pets in PvP. And, rarely in PvE. In PvP especially, the distraction of calling, controlling and keeping track of a pet is not worth the benefit.Better PvPers have found they are often far better than any pet. That includes the infamous AT-ST. Trying to target them as a market may not be a really good idea. I really don't think they will buy many. At best, they will use them the way I do: Call the Droid, put it on Guard/Follow and then worry about it again after the battle is over and I am far from a good PvPer let alone a High end one. If the Droids become something that high end PvPers think worth trying to control, it needs to be nerfed.
So, it really doesn't matter where any certifications would go for the combatants. The non-combatants would be the ones seeing true benefit as they travel from one place to another.
Jawa-Sith-Lord wrote:
So, it really doesn't matter where any certifications would go for the combatants. The non-combatants would be the ones seeing true benefit as they travel from one place to another.
Interestign argument. Have no experience with high end PvP, I cant really speak to its accuracy, but strikes me that you're right. Still, the dev trend is to keep high creature end pets away from the non-CH crowd. What role to high end CH pets play in PvP?
I would agree with a cert system, but I think we need to start looking at something that will be easy to implement and as balanced a possible. On the easy to implement front, perhaps we should just make them usable by anyone with an elite ranged combat profession. The reason a specify ranged has to do with the balancing part. If we assume that all the combat droids will have ranged attacks (like blasters) then it would be a little unbalancing to have them used by melee professions. Imagine a TKM with a pet droideka or IG-88. We might actually start seeing PCs tanking for their pets!
Maybe what we need are two types of combat droids/modules. A melee set and a ranged set. The melee would be useable by a novice in an elite melee profession, and a ranged would be useable by anovice in an elite ranged profession. This should give us not only a large customer base, but also a larger variety of modules/chassis to make.