Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Considering the future...
- Who will use them?
- What will the maximum Levels be?
- Will Experimentation have an effect on the Combat Droids?
- Will there be a general droid market?
- What would be a balanced system?
- Where will the profession be in 6 - 12 months?
- What effect will adding combat droids have?
The more I sat and thought about the topic, the more I realized that inorder to answer one question you must try and find an answer to all of the questions. Here are some of the thoughts that I had when trying to come up with the answer.
I started with the topic that I thought would have the most baring on the situation - Will Experimentation have an effect on the Combat Droids? My intial reaction was that this would be a great improvement to the profession, allowing for a dynamic crafting system that could produce a droid with a wide range of Droid Levels. As I sat and thought about experimenting on different droids, the thought of what the maximum levels occured to me and I suddenly realized that I needed to think about who would use the droids.The more I thought about the ability to Experiment on Combat Droids, so that we could step away from the cookie cutter droid, the more I realized that unless a system was developed, the Experimentaion system could never work.
If we are given the ability to Experiment on Combat Droids, one of three things would have to happen -
- Droid Certs for all Professions
- Turn DE into a full fledged combat profession
- Create a Droid Handler Profession
I started out with the idea of a Cert/Level system, that many have now read, but the longer I contemplated the system, the more I realized that the system would not work because the droids would overbalance combat and the cert system would limit the dynamics of the crafting system.I knew that the idea ofgivingLevel 20+ Combat Droids to any profession combonation would never fly with the DEVs. A Level/Cert System would just ensure that each of the droids that I built was a cookie cutter droid.
I then started thinking about having Droid Engineers control the Droids. At first this seemed like a good idea, but then I realized that doing so would destroy the profession that I have enjoyed for the last few months. If a dynamic crafting system was added, I would be able to craft Droids from Level 10 to potentially Level 50+. I like the idea of being able to craft a Droid that is so much more powerful than I have ever crafted before. This was why I originally signed on as a Droid Engineer, but quickly realized that it wasn't possible with the current system.The more I thought about the fun I would have crafting the droids, the more I realized that by crafting them and having the ability to use them the profession would become over run with hundreds, if not thousands of people looking for an uber droid to use.
It quickly started to become clear that a dynamic crafting system could not be used, if Droid Engineers were the sole owners/users of new combat droids. The uber draw would be too much for many people and would cause a huge flood like Creature Handlers have had. With the flood would come a loss of the other part of the DE profession that I have enjoyed, which is the ability to sale my product and create relationships with my customers. By placing all of the combat droids in the DE profession,I would be chocking off part of my customer base and at the same time would flood the Droid market with hundreds of droids made by those in search of the Uber Droids. So, why not just drop the dynamic crafting system and keep on creating the cookie cutter droids?
I started think of this as well and realized that there would still be a good number of people that would decide to become Droid Engineers, just so that they could use a Droideka, which would more than likely end up increase the number of Droid Engineers that offer a sales by a factor of 3. If this was true, then the droid sales market would be even worse than it is now, since the only droids that would be added at this point are droids that only Droid Engineers would be able to use. There would be no new droids to be offer to the general public, and at the same time there would be double or triple the numbers of people now trying to sale droids.In the long run, this could lead to majority of all Droid Engineers having the need to run combat missions to keep their business running - a business that should be depending on the sales of droids.
Finally, I started thinking about the one idea that I never thought that I would think about - the Droid Handler profession. It took a while for me to get around my dislike of what the name meant to me. It represent the profession that I least like in SWG, whichis Creature Handler. I put my dislike aside and started to think about what the benefits of creating a seperate profession would be. It quickly became apperant that a Droid Handler profession would allow me to have a complete dynamic crafting system and would give me a new market to sale to. New Droid Engineers would have a market to sale to as well, so the increase in competion would be a healthy increase, compared to the prospect of having DE-only droids.
There is a major downside to this however, which is the fact that I would not be able to use many of the new droids that I could now craft. This started me thinking on a possible compromise that would allow Droid Engineers the ability to use a few more of our creations, yet at the same time have that dynamic crafting system that I had in mind. Why not give Droid Engineers a slight bonus in each of the Tier 4 skill boxes and at Master?Granting a total of +10 Levels would allow a Droid Engineer the abilty to own each of the different types of new combat droids, but they would not be the fully experimented versions that a Droid Handler would have. At Master DE, you could have the ability to call upon a second droid, but both droids would need to be less than a total of 20 Levels. The idea could be taken one step further and could allow for a DE-DH stack which would add the +10 Levels and +1 Droid to the abilites that a DH could gain.
I then started thinking about the properties that a Droid Handler should and should not have. Here is a list of DH does and don'ts that I came up with.
- A Droid Handlerwould only be able to gain Droids by purchasing them or by gaining them from NPCs, quests, or faction recruiters. Droids in the 'wild' are not tameable.
- Droids would still be programmable by anyone, with the exception of commands that are Droid Handler specific.
- Droid Handlers would have a Droid Level/Number of Droids progression that is similar to Creature Handlers.
- Droids do not have 'Trick' commands, with the exception of those already in use (Ie Repair other droid and Recharge other droid- both of which are listed as Tricks)
- Droid Handlers have Engineering 4 and Ranged Combat 4 as prereqs.
Here are a few of the special abilites that a Droid Handler could have.
- Overload 1 - A DH can command a droid to overload 1 attack that will cause 25% more damage to its target. The Droid would take 20 wound points to all 3 bars (black bar damage) This can only be performed on 1 droid every 60 seconds.
- Overload2 - A DH can command a droid to overload 1 attack that will cause 50% more damage to its target. The Droid would take 60 wound points to all 3 bars (black bar damage) This can only be performed on 1 droid every 60 seconds.
- Overload3 - A DH can command a droid to overload 1 attack that will cause 75% more damage to its target. The Droid would take100 wound points to all 3 bars and 1 vitality point loss.(black bar damage) This can only be performed on 1 droid every 90 seconds.
- Overload4 -A DH can command a droid to overload 1 attack that will cause 100% more damage to its target. The Droid would lose 5 points of vitality and become incapped. This can only be performed on 1 droid every 90 seconds.
- Supercharge (Health) - A DH can increase the Health bar of a droid, through the use of a DE created booster pack, for up to 10 minutes. The Action and Mind Pools would both decrease by half of the Health increase. This ability does not stack.
- Supercharge (Action) - A DH can increase the Action bar of a droid, through the use of a DE created booster pack, for up to 10 minutes. The Health and Mind Pools would both decrease by half of the Action increase. This ability does not stack.
- Supercharge (Mind) - A DH can increase the Mind bar of a droid, through the use of a DE created booster pack, for up to 10 minutes. The Health andActionPools would both decrease by half of theMind increase. This ability does not stack.
- Tactial Shot - A DH can order the droids under his/her command to attack a single target as if one they were firing a single shot. 5% is added to the total damage for every droid that is included in the shot. This action can only be performed once every 60 seconds.
- Suppression fire - A DH can order the droids under his/her command to fire at a single target to reduce the targets chance to hit for 5 seconds. The targets chance to hit is reduced by 10% for each droid involved in this action. This ability can only be performed once every 60 seconds.
As you can see, I've taken a decent amount of time to sit down and consider the different options that are currently 'on the table'. I felt that I should list my thoughts on the subject, in hopes that a few more people take the time to stop and consider what it is that they would like to see for this profession. I'm not saying that my idea of what the future could hold for us is correct, I'm just trying to make sure that few more people are thinking their ideas through to fruition.
*steals your correspondant hat and eats it*
Muhahaha
But really... what about the DE fixes and whatnot? The repair droid that can repair, surgical droid that heals wounds over time and stims you in battle, binary load lifter that can hold more than 10 items, the R1, colourization of the protocol droid, droid chassis' for all... all new features that don't require all this talk about combat droids.
These are being overlooked. 
DrashK,
Are you not limiting your droid market with the DH profession?
Don't get me wrong. Some market compared to 0 market is a good improvement. But wouldn't USEFUL utility droids for each profession provide a larger market with much more potential down the road for the DE profession?
Then im curious, doesnt armor make a diff to a combat proff?
Doesnt the weapon make a diff to the combat profession?
Arent both experimented?
Arent resources used taken into account?
Isnt someone running around in krayt composite over powered compared to the poor sap that only has umbese?
SO tell me how is a droid any diff.
This stuff of how it will over power so and so doesnt fly.
Frankly there is plenty in the game that seperates the power struggle between those that have and those that dont.
SO i ask again how is it a droid could change the over all scheme of it all.
There are millions of ways to accomplish that, rare resources, the stats on the resources etc to control how many of these uber droids actually exist.
Also explain to me how a BH that shoots you for 3000 hp isnt overpowered?
Or the commando that does the same insane damage?
No offense to those classes my question pertains to how in the heck droids can actually change the dynamics of the game at all.
How about uber combat droids that can only fight each other and only usable in pvp?
How about just looking at the thousands of incredible ideas that have been given for the last 6 months?
How about a little creativity rather then a rubber stamp cloan of a ch
This seems a reasonable compromise - as it does allow the DE's to use their new own creations, if not have the abilities of the DH.
I had a similar idea to allow the existance of DH for non-DE's, and also, allow the DE's to use their own droids that meets the dev's requirements. it can be found here:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=54760
Now THAT is a creative idea. From an RP standpoint it could be something about the current programming of droids doesn't allow it to attack people/creatures. Of course you would throw that out in the context of PvP but that is a suggestion I haven't heard before.
Sinnare wrote:
How about uber combat droids that can only fight each other and only usable in pvp?
Xader_Vartec wrote:
DrashK,
Are you not limiting your droid market with the DH profession?
Don't get me wrong. Some market compared to 0 market is a good improvement. But wouldn't USEFUL utility droids for each profession provide a larger market with much more potential down the road for the DE profession?
From what TH has said abuot the erquirements the devs have for someone who is going to use a DL10++ pet (i.e., skill pt and exp expenditure), that really only leaves two possibilities: DE's have the droids, or DH's have the droids. So, the limited market of DH is preferable to selling to other DE's, methinks.
Hopefully, we will be able to sell some of the CL10 R2's with blasters duct taped to their heads... 
Going by Star Wars, pretty much anyone could use droids and did. That's my fundamtental reason why I believe droid handler to be the wrong tree to bark up.
For combat droids, I really don't want to see a tank per se. I just want to see added damage. Going by Star Wars here, the combat droids didn't hold up well under direct fire unless they had a shield of some type in place. I am more looking for added bang than tanking. I say leave the tanking to the CH and add offense to some droids.
In terms of your questions, one sticks out to me the most. Where will this profession be in 6 - 12 months? I personally don't think that justice will be done in regards to this profession. SOE's philosophy on what balance means will not allow for that justice imho.
Droids should be usable by all people.
Max level of droids can be 10, that's fine, but they should be geared more to offense than defense.
Experimentation should apply to all droids.
A balanced system imho would be for droids to be offensive and creatures to be defensive/med offensive.
Adding combat droids if done correctly will help add to the "Star Warsiness".
Of the three options you present, I'd say that number 2 sits the best with me.
However, I still believe that ANYONE should be able to use droids. Maybe they can add a restraining bolt to droids so that lower levels can use them. They won't be as effective as one without a restraining bolt, but they can still be used. Possibly there could be 2 different restraining bolts that could be taken off as the player grew in level. I'd limit the most powerful combat droids to elite masters.
-DD
Also lets face the facts, there are ways to balance. If you make super cool droids up the hamm on creatures, i mean isnt this what you did with ch?
I really dont understand how things can have such a narrow view when i have seen so many great ideas.
And very simple things and fixes, Power droids that can be used on harvestors etc would be a simple great fix for this profession.
Seriously why is it everything has to be narrowed into a cloan of somthing else.
The goal is to make it more like star wars.
You cant tell me that the developers cant use some of the creative ideas easily.
So what is the reality if this all, Another stall? It almost has to be or this game is in alot more trouble then just droids.
If you need time come out and say it, but dont clone one prof to another cause it will be the death of the game.
I'd rather have Utility droids any day, but the Combat droid issue has become center stage for some reason. This post is geared at trying to get people to look at the issue from many different points of view. There currently is a decent droid market, for those that know how to sale their droids. Any additional droids that can be sold will only increase this market. I was trying to get the point across that adding combat droids to only the DE profession will not increase the sales market and will in all likelyhood will instead case the market to shrink even further. I'm just trying help more people understand this and help them to see past the shiny new combat droids.
Xader_Vartec wrote:
DrashK,
Are you not limiting your droid market with the DH profession?
Don't get me wrong. Some market compared to 0 market is a good improvement. But wouldn't USEFUL utility droids for each profession provide a larger market with much more potential down the road for the DE profession?
Drashk wrote:
I'd rather have Utility droids any day, but the Combat droid issue has become center stage for some reason. This post is geared at trying to get people to look at the issue from many different points of view. There currently is a decent droid market, for those that know how to sale their droids. Any additional droids that can be sold will only increase this market. I was trying to get the point across that adding combat droids to only the DE profession will not increase the sales market and will in all likelyhood will instead case the market to shrink even further. I'm just trying help more people understand this and help them to see past the shiny new combat droids.
I am a new Master DE on Lowca. I've played BE since launch.
If the Droid Handlerprofession gets put in game, I'll master it andbe Master DE and Master DH. I think it would be coolto have master DE give bonuses to DH's, but Isee the balance issues in making DE's able to use the highest level combat droids. We're crafters. As a BE if I wanted to fight with Rancors, I would have mastered CH also. That's why you haveenough skill points to master 3 professions.
I know most other DE's feel differently, but I think droid handler is a GOOD idea.
What ever is decided I think the best compromise is that anyone can use any droid. But if that person doesnt have DH or the right Certs, all the attack and guard options for the droid should be disabled.
This would allow people to roleplay with droids, or DE's to demo droids without any cry of nerf, as they couldn't be used to attack stuff.
I'magainst DH as I became a DE to make and use droids, my pistolfighting skills are limited already without taking more points away to allow me to use battledroids. If they make the DH line too easy though, then everyone will have it anyway.... diffecult decisions.