Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: 'Having a problem with your Droid?' 'No. No problem...Why?' Version 1.1
Time for Sinjen to pipe up again. 
I like the new proposals for stackingbetter. My concerns now are that it still doesn't provide much in the way of diversity.Try as I might, the only thing that comes to mind is to make it so that modules are not so much profession enhancements as they are useful items that anyone can use regardless of profession. Now before you click that reply button just yet, hear me out.
In regards to the entertainment module: Rather than making this follow along with the current model of how medical modules work, I would really like to see these as dispensers for charged items. So this is how it would work:
1) The recording module The entertainer obtains a droid with a module called a recording module. This droid is able to record an entertainer's performance on command. This could either be a passive benefit, or the performer might have to direct thier performance directly to the droid. In my idea, the performer would dance for a period of time (lets say 10 minutes), then could retrieve data disks from the droid. These disks would be directly linked to theskill and the amount of time the entertainer performed. So if the dancer performed for 10 minutes, they would retrieve a 10 minute disk from the droid. Now if we want to get complicated (I always do), they could insert the disk back into the droid with the recording module, and for maybe 15 copper and 30 fiberplast per recording, they could duplicate the disk up to the amount of space they had in the droid's storage compartment.
2) The playback module The other module available to place into a droid is the playback module. When a data disk created by an entertainer is placed into this droid, a command can be given to playback the performance. By listening or watching the droid, the benefits of the performance can be recieved by the player. If it is a 10 minute disk, the performance can be watched for 10 minutes, then the disk is used up. So if a player is out in the middle of nowhere with some serious need of mind healing, that recorded holodisk he bought from his favorite entertainer can heal it.
With this paradigm, we can have more modules to sell that benefitall players, Droid Engineers,and Entertainers.Entertainers are essentially able to give a performance in the wild without ever leaving the cantina, and they get to set the price for that performance, rather than rely on a tip. The description of the disk when examined can give length of time for that performance and the skill of the performer. Players that are not entertainers can also benefit, because they can purchase holo recordings that they can use when no entertainers are available to them immediately. Droid Engineers get two more modules to make just to cover the entertainment side of gameplay. Experimentation could make the length of the recordings longer, or give a bonus to the performance.
Now please tell me the drawbacks here. This is just one idea, but I want to hear objections before I start with more. My ideas seem to be unpopularbecause they "encroach on someone else's profession, letting a droid do what a player can do". The only problem I know of is that it would be a feat to implement, or I can assume it would be. But you wanted more module ideas presented here, so here are my first two.
SinjenRandall, I like the idea of the Entertainer holographic recorder/projector concept. It could be added along with the Enterianment Module, to add additonal content. I'll list a few pros and cons of the concept and then list a few suggestions that might make 'improve' upon the idea.
For the cons, Dremmentiond something earlier in regards to the concern of the cantinas becoming less populated. With the ability to create multiple recordings at the same time, this proposal could lead to some entertainers flooding the market with data disks of their performances, which would make it so the non-RPing combat type never has to set foot into a cantina, ever. It could also reduce the number of Entertainers that pick up the skill in order to heal their combat group and keep progressing in the skill because of the added benefit it gives.
For the pros, this could provide a steady income for all Entertainers similar to medical stim sales for the Medical professions. The module could give Entertainers a change in pace from their normal routine and could even leaded to galaxy wide known Entertainers. This concept would also go over well with the RPers, in that the recorder/projector could be used to record more than just entertainment performances.
I'd suggest, in order to simplify things a little, that the two modules be combined. I can understand wanting to make two seperate modules, but being able to offer the two modules in one package would appeal to more of an audience. The Data Recording Disk could bea multi-charge item created by a Novice Artisan that could even be usedto store waypoints or hyperspace coordinates in the up coming Space Expansion. When used in conjunction with theData Storage module, an Entertainer could storea performance to be recorded to disk at a later time. Once recoreded to disk, the stored performance would be deleted. Each disk could be used to store a number of different performances based upon the number of charges used. I'd suggest that the number of disks that can be created at one time be limited to the number of disks that could be stored in the Item Storage Module. Another point to add would be that a holographic performance won't be as effecient as a live performance, so should be 75-85% as effect as the original creation.
Theholo recorder/playercould be available at Droid Refinement II and have a recording range of 3-5 meters. To activate the recording device, the droid would need to be commanded to stay in one spot, then given a target to record. Next the record command would be issued to begin recording. The recording could last for up to 2 mintues; to balance out the concept of a multi-charge disk, and be either stored in the Data Storage Module or the Data Recording Disks in the droids storage.
To play back the holo recording, the droid would again need to be commanded to stay in one spot and then commanded to playback the recording. The character watching the the recording would need to stay ina closer range to the holo-projection then a live performer. If the droid playing back the recording is commanded to move, the play back is disrupted and the recording is expended. When the performance is finished, the recording is expended.
Droid_Engineer_Rho, offered an idea that could even expand the use of the holo recorder/projector in the form of a two way holographic communications system. This would really draw in a larger number of droid owners, especially from the RPers. A seperate module could be created to handle the communicatoins aspect of the suggestion, in order to add another moduleconcept.The holo recorder/projector, when used in conjunction with the communications array module, would allow one character the ability to transmit a semi-live communication to another character either through the use of a pair of equiped droids, or a holo suite - craftable by an Architect. This could open up 'live' holo-transmissions from dancers and musicians across the galaxy as well as allowing characters the ability to interact with each other in a whole new way.
The only problems that I see arrising with this concept is the ablitiy to transmit the holo-projections and the ability to actually send and recieve the transmissions, both of which are coding and technology limited. Since there woulldn't be as direct a communications link, the difficulty of trying to find the target for each transmission.
Drashk,
Thanks for the thoughtful post. I'll respond to these one at time...
Drashk wrote:
1) the level of a module in a droid should be limited by the droid type in question.
I disagree with this. Any droid should be able to hold any module. This proposed change will limit customer chasis choice by impairing chasis functionality. I think R5s look way cooler than gimpy conehead R4s but with this change I have to go with R2s or R3s to get the best modules.
This will impair the lower end of the market, pushing all customers to the higher end droids if they want good modules.
2)the General Droid Module Socket should be completely removed and the number of allowed modules slots should be changed
I agree completely. Clusters suck. More regular module slots would be better. Fix other bugs before fixing this one, as cluster-loaded droids are the only current cure for droid gimpishness.
* 3) The stacking of droid modules needs to be re-thought out and changed from its current system. With the current stacking rules on all modules, 2 Level 4 Modules can produce the same results as a Level 6 Module.
I don't like the idea of nerfing module stacking.This iwll impact Novice DEs ina bad way and tilt the balance twoard masters even more. Two lvl 4s should equal a lvl 6. This is fair as it limits the number of modules you can use in a droid; lower-tech takes up more space, while hi-tech lvl6s take up less. I'd prefer the change to be: Take a Lvl5 or lvl6 plus lvl6s and get the bonuses described in you chart.
Drashk wrote:
4) Many DEs, and droid owners, have expressed a need to make Droids more useful by adding more modules. I, personally, do not like the module concept, since it detracts from giving each droid a specific function, but the movies, and more so in extended universe content, show us that any droid can be equipped with functions that can be used outside of there originally intended use.
I like droid specilazation -- surgicals for meds and LE reapir for repair. These droids should DO SOMETHING besides accept modules.
a) Crafting Station Package - Currently, droid crafting stations do not have a function rating, like their Architect built counter parts. Again, either this was an oversight by the DEV team, or they were not intended to have a function rating. I will list a two part concept. The first part is to give all basic droid crafting stations a function rating that is on scale with a Private crafting station that has been made with out the optional parts installed; between -15 and +15.
I think this proposal adds needless complexity and costs to droids for little added benefit. How about just fix the modules so they actually show a rating? Storing schematics in droids automatically means having to pull out the schematic to load it in the factory, unless the droids does that, but with one droid out at a time, it's unclear that you'll take your crafter droid out into the sticks to load up your factory.
*b) Entertainment Module - This module would function similar to the Medical version, but instead would affect an Entertainer's ability to heal Mind wounds in and out of the Cantina.
I lie this idea, but I think it calls for an entertainment droid chasis. How does R2 help a go-go dancer? A droid that 1) accompanied music by adding a beat, etc,. 2) added lights/effects to a dancers moves, and/or 3) functioned as an audience member and gave small exp would be cool. But a generic "entetainement module" doesn't appeal to me, except to the extent that I like the functionality you described.
c) A droid with this module would assist a Smuggler when ever slicing weapons or armor, by granting the user a percentage based chance to picking the outcome of the slice.
I like this a lot -- slicing modules.
d) Droid Armor Modules (Revamped)) - The concept behind this idea is to include experimentation values on all droid armor, similar to the way Armorsmith armor is experimented on.
I like this alot. Allow custom armor plates so droids could be made for PvP or PvE for example -- or even specialized droids for taking out creatures that do say acid attacks or whatever.
I would add shield generator modulesfor the top droids that give an incremental bonus to armor modules.
5) I believe that certain modules should be limited to certain droid types, as well as having a limit on what level modules can be installed, as per listed above
I disagee with this wholeheartedly. As I mentioned, you will impair the market for many droids by capping the lvl of their modules. Entertainment modules for entertainment chasis droids only, for example, is fine. Perhaps medical modules in surgicals only... MAYBE ... or item storage only in BLLs (extra item slots). But limiting treadwells to lvl 4 modules (or fill in any number below lvl 6) will make treadwells even more scarse than they are now. Same applies to other non-specialized droids.
I am going to hang on here for a bit tomy original ideas. Lets go through our concerns:
Drashk wrote:
For the cons, Dremmentiond something earlier in regards to the concern of the cantinas becoming less populated.
My concern is that unless you are on at prime time, in the capitol city, they are already pretty deserted. This is one of the reasons I wouldlove to see these modules. I don't know about you, but I have had to travel from Talus to Coronet Starport just to find a cantina with an entertainer in it. I am in Dearic right now, and there isn't a single medic or entertainer in the entire city. I can see how these modulesmight be thought to cause the problem, but I see it as a possible alleviation to a problem that already exists. Think of it this way. The performance was done. The only thing that changes is the when and where.
Drashk wrote:
With the ability to create multiple recordings at the same time, this proposal could lead to some entertainers flooding the market with data disks of their performances, which would make it so the non-RPing combat type never has to set foot into a cantina, ever. It could also reduce the number of Entertainers that pick up the skill in order to heal their combat group and keep progressing in the skill because of the added benefit it gives.
This is a very, very extreme vision of how this might possibly go wrong. But I see where you are coming from. This is the reason why I proposed that the recordings be time based, and if the performance has to be directed at the droid, this isn't going to be very convenient for the performer. I would think that 10 disks every 30 minutes or so (10 minutes to record, 20 minutes to duplicate a maximum of 10 disks) wouldn't exactly "flood the market". I might just be unlucky, but I find it extremely difficult to obtain pet vitality packs or Power Hammers, and those are abundant.
Drashk wrote:
I'd suggest, in order to simplify things a little, that the two modules be combined. I can understand wanting to make two seperate modules, but being able to offer the two modules in one package would appeal to more of an audience.
Why combine the two modules when you could putboth modulesin the same droid just as easily? This is one of the the very things I step onto the soapbox about. We have so many sockets! We have so few modules! If the customer wants both, they can get a custom droid with both in there.
As for the rest, I think the more the droid does, or at least appears to do, the better. The harder or less convenient it becomes for the player to use or implement the function of the droid, the less desirable the droid becomes. We could talk all day long about mechanics or drawbacks or all sorts of speculative things, but one thing is for certain. The more people find droids truly useful, the more they will want and --more importantly -- use the droid. Some people might be frightened by the prospect of droids havingvalue beyond novelty or roleplaying. But every single player in the game could benefit from one or the other of these modules in a droid, and that's the bottom line.
That is all I will add for now. Less talk more sleep.
SinjenRandall, the first two quotes that you used from me where my attempt at being Devil's Advocate. I was simply trying to argue the opposite side of issue, becasue I think it is a really good concept to add to the next version of ths thread. I totally agree with you that during non-peak hours, the cantinas in many cities are empty and the inclusion of a holographic performance that is slightly less effective than the 'live' perfromance, but more accessable, is a step in the right direction towards giving droids a purpose.
I can see your point in wanting to keep the record/play functions split, however I was also looking at Droid_Engineer_Rho's suggestion about the communications module. If the record/play fuctions were seperate,a DEwould not be able to offer the holo vid transmission package in anything less than an Advanced R4. Bycombining the record/play module and using it in conjunction with the communications module, you give a Novice DE a product, in thepackagingof an Advanced R5 or basic R4, that would have a considerable market and not be level based, like the Medical module, in any way.
If the record/play modules are combined, would it be feasable toallow an Advanced MSE to have both the record/play module and the communictaions module installed? Or should it only be allowed to carry the record/play moduleso that you could send the droid to deliever holographic messages and have replies sent back?
Imagine leaving a droid sitting innocuously in your shop, signalling you and offering you the opportunity to watch anyone who passes in front of it.
Of course, I think our droids should offer telepresences, too...
Droid_Engineer_Rho , you made me think of the perfect droid to give that function to...
Advanced DZ70 - 2 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 25%)
Limited to level 1, 2, 3, & 4 Medical, Data storage, Item Storage, Communications
Module, or Holographic Projectior/Recorder Module.
*Ranged combat attack. When equiped with the Holographic
Projector/Recorder Module and the Communications Moulde, the Advanced
DZ70 gains the surveillance functoin. This allows the droid owner the ablitity to
monitor actions within a 10 meter area near the droid by using a secondary droid
equiped with a Communications Module. Limited commands can be given to the
Advanced DZ70 through this link, such as select target and follow other.
What do you think?
Long-winded as ever, but hey who am I to talk about being long-winded, eh?
Responses use your numbering system.
1) I don’t believe that this is a good idea. I admit that it really looks great on the surface, but the real effect of this would be to prevent Novice Droid Engineers from being able to sell anything at all. In general, people only want to buy the best stuff, which means that only a near-Master Droid Engineer would have saleable products using this system.
2) I concur, but I don’t think it is necessary. If they would just fix the bug that allows the cluster to be installed in normal slots, the problem would go away.
Note that fixing this bug alleviates all three of your sub-sections: a) and c) are really identical – the reason that clusters can be stacked is that the cluster schematic calls for 3 modules, and as you point out in c) a cluster can be put into a module’s spot in a schematic. b) would also go away because you would no longer be able to stack the clusters in order to get higher mechanism quality.
3) Side note: a pair of Level 3 modules produces the same result as a Level 6 module. No need to use Level 4s, at least not for all types of modules. I regularly use a pair of Level 3 Item Storage modules to get 12 (which is then capped down to 10) total storage.
At any rate, I don’t see a need to get this complicated. The current stacking system works just fine – what is “broken” is that there are only a few modules that are useful, so the higher end droids have too many module slots available. Thus there is no need for a Level 6 Item Storage module because there is plenty of room in an R2 chassis to just use a pair of Level 3 modules instead.
Adding diversity and desirability to droid modules will solve this perceived problem because customers will have to make a choice when picking their droid. Furthermore, this plays right into your issue #1 – the only reason people buy fully loaded MSE droids is because they CAN. If they couldn’t fit everything they wanted into an MSE, they’d move up to a better droid.
4) no need to comment here, there are a ton of excellent module suggestions already floating around. I don’t find your suggestions to be any worse (or better) than all the others out there… I’d be perfectly happy to see just about any of the ones on the stickied list added.
5) As a long term suggestion I think this is great. I would love to see some focus from droid to droid as to their “normal” function. Note that once again this ties in with your first issue – if the MSE is restricted by type of module there is no reason to restrict it by level as well.
6) I agree that experimentation should have SOME effect on a droid’s quality level. Whether or not that effect should be tied to HAM is up for debate, for at least for a combat droid that seems reasonable. Personally, I’d like to see damage and HAM both experimentable – that way I could specialize in tough droids and you could specialize in attack droids, or vice versa.
I believe that the key to making this work is to set the maximum values as if the droid were constructed with perfect materials and experimented fully. Then “degrade” the droid based on less-than-perfect materials and experimentation. This would require balancing, of course, to ensure that the new experimentable droids would be good enough, but I don’t think it would be that hard to do.
7) It had to be hidden in here somewhere, didn’t it?
We don’t need a DE-only combat droid. We aren’t a combat profession. We aren’t a pet profession. Adding a superior DE-only combat droid would make us one or the other, and that’s a radical and fundamental change to the profession. I am opposed to any suggestion that makes such a fundamental change to the way our profession is played.
As for combat droids in general, it is difficult to propose suggestions when we have no idea what the Devs have in mind for Creature Handlers. That said, it seems reasonable to me to have several different combat droids of varying complexity and level. It makes sense to have some sort of entry-level combat droid that can be made and sold cheaply to new players so that they can have a combat sidekick to help them out as they level. It also makes sense to have some sort of mid-level combat droid (or droids) that the newbies can move into as they gain skills. And it also makes sense to have some sort of top-end combat droid that is the best anyone can buy.
However, it makes no sense to try to design those droids in the absence of information from the Devs about how powerful those various levels of droids could potentially be.
8 ) Similarly, without knowing the potential level of combat droid available, trying to come up with a cert system is pretty pointless. I have seen a number of good suggestions, however.
Kollos wrote:
1) I don’t believe that this is a good idea. I admit that it really looks great on the surface, but the real effect of this would be to prevent Novice Droid Engineers from being able to sell anything at all. In general, people only want to buy the best stuff, which means that only a near-Master Droid Engineer would have saleable products using this system.
Actually, by limiting the level modules on each droid, especially at the lower levels, it prevents Master Droid Engineers from placing high end modules in for instance an MSE, like many already do. There alreadybeen quite a fewDE that have voiced a complaint against the ablity to place high level modules in low level droids.
2) I concur, but I don’t think it is necessary. If they would just fix the bug that allows the cluster to be installed in normal slots, the problem would go away.
Note that fixing this bug alleviates all three of your sub-sections: a) and c) are really identical – the reason that clusters can be stacked is that the cluster schematic calls for 3 modules, and as you point out in c) a cluster can be put into a module’s spot in a schematic. b) would also go away because you would no longer be able to stack the clusters in order to get higher mechanism quality.
Even with the fix to item a) and c), which were intentionally posted so that those that are unfamiliar with this issue, there is still the issue of effectively doubling the mechanism quality of up to 3 installed modules. If you create a Cluster Module using 3 modules with high mechanism ratings, you will have a higher rating on the Cluster Module than the 3 modules total.
3) Side note: a pair of Level 3 modules produces the same result as a Level 6 module. No need to use Level 4s, at least not for all types of modules. I regularly use a pair of Level 3 Item Storage modules to get 12 (which is then capped down to 10) total storage.
At any rate, I don’t see a need to get this complicated. The current stacking system works just fine – what is “broken” is that there are only a few modules that are useful, so the higher end droids have too many module slots available. Thus there is no need for a Level 6 Item Storage module because there is plenty of room in an R2 chassis to just use a pair of Level 3 modules instead.
Adding diversity and desirability to droid modules will solve this perceived problem because customers will have to make a choice when picking their droid. Furthermore, this plays right into your issue #1 – the only reason people buy fully loaded MSE droids is because they CAN. If they couldn’t fit everything they wanted into an MSE, they’d move up to a better droid.
Sorry if I doubt your ability to use 2 Level 3 modules to create 10 storage, but unless you are using materials that have 900+ OQ and Conductivity and are Experimenting with Great Successes or above to a gain a much higher storage capacity then the 6 rating you are stating for each module (combined to 12) you should only be acheiving a total 8 item storage.
The entire reason for changing the stacking system is so that there is a benefit to becoming a Master and producing Level 6 modules. When you stack 2 Level 6 modules, or 4 Level 4 modules, added function for each module is acheived. Case in point, the medical module
a) Medical Module Rating Stacking Benefit
13 - 15 10% Mind cost reduction
15 - 17 10% Usage time reduction
17 - 19 + 10 Medical Rating.
Under the proposed change, if 2 Level 6 Medical modules are stacked the above 3 abilities are gained. The same can also be achieved with 4 Level 4 Modules, so a Advanced R2 unit could be built to produce the same effect. The point that I am getting across is that as it stands, All Level 6 modules are pointless to create in one of the best selling droids, the Advanced R2. Yes more modules need to be introduced, but even then a DE will have to pick between adding more functions or increasing the ability of each function.
4) no need to comment here, there are a ton of excellent module suggestions already floating around. I don’t find your suggestions to be any worse (or better) than all the others out there… I’d be perfectly happy to see just about any of the ones on the stickied list added.
5) As a long term suggestion I think this is great. I would love to see some focus from droid to droid as to their “normal” function. Note that once again this ties in with your first issue – if the MSE is restricted by type of module there is no reason to restrict it by level as well.
I, as well as many other DE, disagree with your last statement.
6) I agree that experimentation should have SOME effect on a droid’s quality level. Whether or not that effect should be tied to HAM is up for debate, for at least for a combat droid that seems reasonable. Personally, I’d like to see damage and HAM both experimentable – that way I could specialize in tough droids and you could specialize in attack droids, or vice versa.
I believe that the key to making this work is to set the maximum values as if the droid were constructed with perfect materials and experimented fully. Then “degrade” the droid based on less-than-perfect materials and experimentation. This would require balancing, of course, to ensure that the new experimentable droids would be good enough, but I don’t think it would be that hard to do.
I believe the three different experimentation bars are used to increase HAM and Damage seperately, but since this ability of experimentation is broken, along with the HAM/damage cap, we currently don't see any changes. What you are suggesting in the second part of you post is actually reverse of how the crafting process is done, for instance as an Armorsmith, Weaponsmith, or Architect. The resources and experimentation are 'added' to the base states.
7) It had to be hidden in here somewhere, didn’t it?
We don’t need a DE-only combat droid. We aren’t a combat profession. We aren’t a pet profession. Adding a superior DE-only combat droid would make us one or the other, and that’s a radical and fundamental change to the profession. I am opposed to any suggestion that makes such a fundamental change to the way our profession is played.
Ummm, Kollos, What are you talking about? There isn't a DE only droid anywhere in his version of the proposal. I removed it from the original version. I'm guessing that you only saw what you wanted to see when you read this line...Available at Master Droid Engineer and only useable by those with the correct droid cert
Re-read the line again and you will see that first part refers to the fact that the Advaced Droideka is CRAFTABLE by a Master Droid Engineer. The Advanced Driodeka is ONLY usable byTHOSEwith the CORRECT DROID CERT
As for combat droids in general, it is difficult to propose suggestions when we have no idea what the Devs have in mind for Creature Handlers. That said, it seems reasonable to me to have several different combat droids of varying complexity and level. It makes sense to have some sort of entry-level combat droid that can be made and sold cheaply to new players so that they can have a combat sidekick to help them out as they level. It also makes sense to have some sort of mid-level combat droid (or droids) that the newbies can move into as they gain skills. And it also makes sense to have some sort of top-end combat droid that is the best anyone can buy.
However, it makes no sense to try to design those droids in the absence of information from the Devs about how powerful those various levels of droids could potentially be.
I guess that you missed the point that this entire thread is based on theprinical of creating a proposal that can be offered to the DEVs, that is created by the DE community.If you had read the pervious version of this thread, you would have noticed that it has already changed and that it has changed because constructive feed back from other community memebers.
8 ) Similarly, without knowing the potential level of combat droid available, trying to come up with a cert system is pretty pointless. I have seen a number of good suggestions, however.
Exactly the same comment as above.
Drashk wrote:
Kollos wrote:
1) I don’t believe that this is a good idea. I admit that it really looks great on the surface, but the real effect of this would be to prevent Novice Droid Engineers from being able to sell anything at all. In general, people only want to buy the best stuff, which means that only a near-Master Droid Engineer would have saleable products using this system.
Actually, by limiting the level modules on each droid, especially at the lower levels, it prevents Master Droid Engineers from placing high end modules in for instance an MSE, like many already do. There alreadybeen quite a fewDE that have voiced a complaint against the ablity to place high level modules in low level droids.
Sure, it prevents a Master from selling a MSE droid with a high level module. But it essentially prevents a Novice from selling anything. You're basically reserving all sales for Master or near-Masters because you'll have to have the best of everything to get sales. Currently, non-Masters can get sales by putting crafting stations and the like in MSE droids... which unless I misunderstood your proposal, you would prevent.
2) I concur, but I don’t think it is necessary. If they would just fix the bug that allows the cluster to be installed in normal slots, the problem would go away.
Note that fixing this bug alleviates all three of your sub-sections: a) and c) are really identical – the reason that clusters can be stacked is that the cluster schematic calls for 3 modules, and as you point out in c) a cluster can be put into a module’s spot in a schematic. b) would also go away because you would no longer be able to stack the clusters in order to get higher mechanism quality.
Even with the fix to item a) and c), which were intentionally posted so that those that are unfamiliar with this issue, there is still the issue of effectively doubling the mechanism quality of up to 3 installed modules. If you create a Cluster Module using 3 modules with high mechanism ratings, you will have a higher rating on the Cluster Module than the 3 modules total.
Granted. I just don't think that particular problem is that big of a deal. I guess if you're aiming for some sort of "ideal" solution that might not be feasible, then I would agree with your point. However, it might be easier to alter the cluster module to not provide this "bonus" than to alter every schematic that currently allows for cluster modules. My point is that there's nothing intrinsically wrong with the cluster module concept, and in fact the "bonus" that you're seeing may be by design.
3) Side note: a pair of Level 3 modules produces the same result as a Level 6 module. No need to use Level 4s, at least not for all types of modules. I regularly use a pair of Level 3 Item Storage modules to get 12 (which is then capped down to 10) total storage.
At any rate, I don’t see a need to get this complicated. The current stacking system works just fine – what is “broken” is that there are only a few modules that are useful, so the higher end droids have too many module slots available. Thus there is no need for a Level 6 Item Storage module because there is plenty of room in an R2 chassis to just use a pair of Level 3 modules instead.
Adding diversity and desirability to droid modules will solve this perceived problem because customers will have to make a choice when picking their droid. Furthermore, this plays right into your issue #1 – the only reason people buy fully loaded MSE droids is because they CAN. If they couldn’t fit everything they wanted into an MSE, they’d move up to a better droid.
Sorry if I doubt your ability to use 2 Level 3 modules to create 10 storage, but unless you are using materials that have 900+ OQ and Conductivity and are Experimenting with Great Successes or above to a gain a much higher storage capacity then the 6 rating you are stating for each module (combined to 12) you should only be acheiving a total 8 item storage.
I do it all the time and I don't believe I'm doing anything special. I do generally use pretty good resources, but I'm certainly not using 900+ resources all the time. I don't even have extra experimentation points - I just have the 5 that any other Master should also have. *shrug* I don't even have to make any extra effort to achieve these results... if I don't get "great" successeson one of the 2 I intend to use I might end up with a 5 and a 6, but in all seriousness I don't think I've ever made a Level 4 Item Storage Module that didn't have at least a 5 capacity.
The entire reason for changing the stacking system is so that there is a benefit to becoming a Master and producing Level 6 modules. When you stack 2 Level 6 modules, or 4 Level 4 modules, added function for each module is acheived. Case in point, the medical module
a) Medical Module Rating Stacking Benefit
13 - 15 10% Mind cost reduction
15 - 17 10% Usage time reduction
17 - 19 + 10 Medical Rating.
Under the proposed change, if 2 Level 6 Medical modules are stacked the above 3 abilities are gained. The same can also be achieved with 4 Level 4 Modules, so a Advanced R2 unit could be built to produce the same effect. The point that I am getting across is that as it stands, All Level 6 modules are pointless to create in one of the best selling droids, the Advanced R2. Yes more modules need to be introduced, but even then a DE will have to pick between adding more functions or increasing the ability of each function.
I understand what you're trying to accomplish, I think, but in the process you're adding capability. Has it occurred to you that the Devs might not be willing to extend modules to give them the added abilities you're suggesting? Keep, for example, the Item Storage cap at 10 and re-work your table and then I think you'd have a more viable suggestion.
Developers are more likely to throw away suggestions that add capabilities even if those suggestions otherwise have merit. Stay within the current bounds and you'll have better luck.
At any rate, the suggestion I'm making is that if there were, for example, 15 different desirable modules (note that I'm not suggesting which, just that there be more, so don't try to claim thatI'm beinghypocritical)then a Level 6 module would be more popular. People would need to use Level 6 modules in order to get everything they want in their droids. Lower level DEs would be able to make less functional droids (read: fewer of the potential 15 modules) but still provide full functionality for the few modules they did include.
5) As a long term suggestion I think this is great. I would love to see some focus from droid to droid as to their “normal” function. Note that once again this ties in with your first issue – if the MSE is restricted by type of module there is no reason to restrict it by level as well.
I, as well as many other DE, disagree with your last statement.
Please. Don't stoop this low to justify yourself. You've made good suggestions, there's no need to resort to this kind of self-aggrandizement.
6) I agree that experimentation should have SOME effect on a droid’s quality level. Whether or not that effect should be tied to HAM is up for debate, for at least for a combat droid that seems reasonable. Personally, I’d like to see damage and HAM both experimentable – that way I could specialize in tough droids and you could specialize in attack droids, or vice versa.
I believe that the key to making this work is to set the maximum values as if the droid were constructed with perfect materials and experimented fully. Then “degrade” the droid based on less-than-perfect materials and experimentation. This would require balancing, of course, to ensure that the new experimentable droids would be good enough, but I don’t think it would be that hard to do.
I believe the three different experimentation bars are used to increase HAM and Damage seperately, but since this ability of experimentation is broken, along with the HAM/damage cap, we currently don't see any changes. What you are suggesting in the second part of you post is actually reverse of how the crafting process is done, for instance as an Armorsmith, Weaponsmith, or Architect. The resources and experimentation are 'added' to the base states.
Well, I didn't explain myself very well then. What I'm saying is that in order to balance things, the Devs need to "fix" the top-of-the-line maximum and then work backwards through experimentation to figure out what the baseline must be. There's no need to implement it backwards, however - it can work just like it does now once they've figured out what the new "minimum" values should be. Sorry I wasn't clear.
7) It had to be hidden in here somewhere, didn’t it?
We don’t need a DE-only combat droid. We aren’t a combat profession. We aren’t a pet profession. Adding a superior DE-only combat droid would make us one or the other, and that’s a radical and fundamental change to the profession. I am opposed to any suggestion that makes such a fundamental change to the way our profession is played.
Ummm, Kollos, What are you talking about? There isn't a DE only droid anywhere in his version of the proposal. I removed it from the original version. I'm guessing that you only saw what you wanted to see when you read this line...Available at Master Droid Engineer and only useable by those with the correct droid cert
Re-read the line again and you will see that first part refers to the fact that the Advaced Droideka is CRAFTABLE by a Master Droid Engineer. The Advanced Driodeka is ONLY usable byTHOSEwith the CORRECT DROID CERT
My apologies. You are correct, I mis-read this original post. And no, I didn't see what I wanted to see, I saw what I had seen over and over many times in the past.
I'll have to think about this idea fora while. I'm not sure that it solves all of my concerns, but it does seem reasonable at first glance.
As for combat droids in general, it is difficult to propose suggestions when we have no idea what the Devs have in mind for Creature Handlers. That said, it seems reasonable to me to have several different combat droids of varying complexity and level. It makes sense to have some sort of entry-level combat droid that can be made and sold cheaply to new players so that they can have a combat sidekick to help them out as they level. It also makes sense to have some sort of mid-level combat droid (or droids) that the newbies can move into as they gain skills. And it also makes sense to have some sort of top-end combat droid that is the best anyone can buy.
However, it makes no sense to try to design those droids in the absence of information from the Devs about how powerful those various levels of droids could potentially be.
I guess that you missed the point that this entire thread is based on theprinical of creating a proposal that can be offered to the DEVs, that is created by the DE community.If you had read the pervious version of this thread, you would have noticed that it has already changed and that it has changed because constructive feed back from other community memebers.
I did read the original version. At the time, I didn't find it worth comment. I comment on this one only because you have demonstrated that you will modify it so that it represents more of the entire communities views instead of just your own.
People post idea threads all the time... I don't expect you (or anyone else)to respond to all of them, so why would you expect me to?
8 ) Similarly, without knowing the potential level of combat droid available, trying to come up with a cert system is pretty pointless. I have seen a number of good suggestions, however.
Exactly the same comment as above.
Gah... lack of edit button... I meant that I don't believe I have ever made a Level 3 Item Storage module with less than 5 capacity.
*sigh*