Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: 'Having a problem with your Droid?' 'No. No problem...Why?' Version 1.1
Some of you may have already read previous version of this thread, while many of you have not. The idea behind its creation is to provide a space for those that are serious in trying to help shape the future of the Droid Engineering profession. I started the Droideka ball rolling by listing a few of the ideas and possible solutions to those problems. After a few days of responses here and by PMs, I reworked a few of the concept ideas and reposted the thread in its next form. I will not touch on most of the topics on Gorantoth's Centralized Droid Issue list, since it would swell this post to a larger size than it is already going to become. Constructive criticism and concept ideas are highly encouraged. The concept ideas that are supplied in this thread will change from version to version as more feed back is offered. * denote changes in this edition.
1) Currently, as many of us know, an MSE droid can hold most of the best modules that our profession can create. I don't know if this was supposed to be how the DEVs originally intended it to happen, or if this was a major oversight on their part, when the DE profession was designed. In either case, the level of a module in a droid should be limited by the droid type in question. This should be applied to all leveled droid modules, including armor modules The following is a chart, of what I believe to be a fair and justified change, that I hope could be easily implemented.
Droid Engineer Level Module Level
Novice DE 1 - 2
Blueprints I 1 - 3
Blueprints II 1 - 4
Blueprints III 1 - 5
Blueprints IV 1 - 6
Master DE 1 - 6
2) This idea would be a bit trickier, in regards to the changing of code, but the General Droid Module Socket should be completely removed and the number of allowed modules slots should be changed, which I will discuss my ideas in the next section. (To shorten the name for the General Droid Module Socket, let us call it a Cluster Module, as I've seen it referred to before. For those that don't know, a Cluster Module is a module that can be built with three other modules inside of it.) Currently, Cluster Modules are 'broken' in three ways.
a) First, a cluster module can be placed inside another cluster module, during a crafting session, which means that you can have an finite number of cluster modules that are imbedded in each other, depending on how much patience a DE has. (I.E. Using the method of stacking mentioned above. I place two Level 4 Storage Modules and any one crafting station in to Cluster Module 1. I then build Cluster Module 2 which contains two Level 4 Data Storage Modules and Cluster Module 1. Next, I build Cluster Module 3 which contains two Level 4 Medical Modules and Cluster Module 2. What I end up with is one module that has 1 crafting station, the equivalent of a level 6 Item Storage Module, a level 6 Data Storage Module, and a level 6 Medical Module. I am extremely certain that this in not meant to be how the Cluster Modules where intended to be used, just like Data Modules were never intended to store missions or extra creatures, of which both issues were quickly fixed.)
b) Second, Cluster Modules have an effect on the end quality of a droids production, even though with the current HAM/Damage cap it is not easily perceived. Each and every module has a Mechanism Quality rating when it is built. This rating dictates how well the droid turns out in the final built of a droid. The same applies to a Cluster Module; however when a Cluster Module is built using high end resources and other the installed modules are built with high end resources, the end Mechanism Quality comes out considerably higher than any other module's rating. If the HAM and damage cap, which was placed when Probots were nerfed in order to tone them down, were to be removed, a DE that used the stacked Cluster Modules, like in the above example, could produce droids that would be far superior to any other DE's creation, that did not use this Exploit. (By definition, stacking Cluster Modules is an Exploit since it was not meant to be used in this manner, similar to how data modules were not meant to hold extra pets.).
(I.E. In the above mentioned example, if all of the normal modules had a Mechanism Quality of 5 and each Cluster Module was experimented with Great Successes, Cluster Module 3 could, theoretically, end up with a rating of 30-50, when experimentation is increased to 10 blocks for Master DEs.)
c) Lastly, Cluster Modules can be used in any module slot on any droid. A few will argue that this is how it was intended to be, since it hasn't been fixed, but from a non-biased and logical stand point, a Cluster Module was only intended to be placed in Cluster Module slot on the droids that are equipped such a slot. Even if Cluster Module stacking was removed, a DE could still place a Cluster Module with three different Level 6 Modules on an Advanced Probot and a crafting station; effectively make all other droid types pointless.
* 3) The stacking of droid modules needs to be re-thought out and changed from its current system. A number of people have voiced that they like the current ability to stack modules, but see that there is a need to change the current linear system or to change the benefits of stacking. With the current stacking rules on all modules, 2 Level 4 Modules can produce the same results as a Level 6 Module. The following chart shops the relationship between the module level, module rating (based on projections of 10 Experimentation blocks) and module function rating.
Module Level Module Rating Medical Rating Items Stored Data Stored
1 1 - 3 55 1 20
2 3 - 5 65 2 40
3 5 - 7 75 4 70
4 7 - 9 85 6 110
5 9 - 11 100 8 125
6 11 - 13 110 10 150
This proposed change is that stacking be based upon the module rating and not the level of the modules used. This will take into account an overall increase on the emphasis given to experimentation. By changing the stacking formula to something along the lines of this - Highest Module rating + 1/2 (rounded up) Second Module = Overall Module rating - experimentation will impact the final product. Along with this change, the cap on each module could be changed slightly to add benefits for stacking higher level modules. Please note, with the proposed changes to the Armor Module, (listed below) Armor stacking should be removed due to its overpowering nature.
a) Medical Module Rating Stacking Benefit
13 - 15 10% Mind cost reduction
15 - 17 10% Usage time reduction
17 - 19 + 10 Medical Rating.
b) Item Storage Module Rating Stacking Benefit
13 - 15 +1 Item Storage
15 - 17 +1 Item Storage
17 - 19 +1 Item Storage
c) Data Storage Module - Due to the limited usefulness of Data Storage Modules, there are no suggestions at this time.
4) Many DEs, and droid owners, have expressed a need to make Droids more useful by adding more modules. I, personally, do not like the module concept, since it detracts from giving each droid a specific function, but the movies, and more so in extended universe content, show us that any droid can be equipped with functions that can be used outside of there originally intended use. I will list a few module concepts for consideration; some of which have been posted on other threads and a few of which are 'original' ideas.
a) Crafting Station Package - Currently, droid crafting stations do not have a function rating, like their Architect built counter parts. Again, either this was an oversight by the DEV team, or they were not intended to have a function rating. I will list a two part concept. The first part is to give all basic droid crafting stations a function rating that is on scale with a Private crafting station that has been made with out the optional parts installed; between -15 and +15. The second part of the proposal is for a new module type that would use the normal Droid crafting station and other optional parts, in order to prove the function rating and give it other options as well. I'll call this new module a Crafting station module cluster. This module could only be installed in specific droid types, which I will expand upon in a separate area. This module could be added to the Droid Refinement Tree, since it could be considered a non-essential improvement. The Station cluster would have 1 required Droid Crafting station (any ) and 4 optional parts that can be installed, which can raise the overall function rating on the Droid installed crafting station, similar to a Private Crafting station. The optional parts that would be needed are 2 similar Micro Sensor Suites, 2 similar Control Units, 1 Droid Item Storage Module (any level), and 1 Droid Data Storage Module (any level). The Crafting station module cluster would gain an increased rating over the basic droid crafting station module and could integrate the two storage modules installed.
The integrated Item Storage Module would function similar to the input hopper function on a Private Crafting station, but on a smaller scale, due to the storage capacity is limited by the level of the Item Storage Module that is installed. Where this idea diverges from the Private Crafting station is the inclusion of the Data Storage Module. When ever a factory schematic is created, instead of the schematic going directly to the droid owner's datapad, the schematic would be stored in the Droids Data Storage Module instead. This would increase the usefulness of the Data Storage module a little bit. Both of the Storage modules could be still accessed in the normal manner from the droid's radial, but the droid storage could also be accessed through the appropriate crafting tool, just like the hopper on a Private station, with its optional parts installed. The Data and Item storage installed in a Crafting Station Package counts towards the maximum storage space allowed. (I.E If Level 6 Item and Data Storage was used then the droid would have the maximum Item and Data Storage possible.)
*b) Entertainment Module - This module would function similar to the Medical version, but instead would affect an Entertainer's ability to heal Mind wounds in and out of the Cantina. This module could be added to the Droid Production Tree in the same level progression as the Medical module, with a 10% bonus being added to the cantina's effectiveness when a Droid with a Level 6 module is used. Entertainment Modules would also follow the same stacking progression defined above for Medical Modules.
c) Slicing Module - This module is a bit trickier to implement than the previous 2 modules, but I will include this one as well, for a concept idea. A droid with this module would assist a Smuggler when ever slicing weapons or armor, by granting the user a percentage based chance to picking the outcome of the slice. This module would be level based, with a Novice DE starting with a Level 1 Slicing Module and could be part of the Droid Construction Techniques Tree; following the same level progression as other level based modules. At level 1, the module would grant a Smuggler a 0 -10% chance of successfully choosing the out come of any slice made on weapons and armor. The percentage at each level is based on the quality of the module produced. A Level 6 Slicing module would allow for a 0 - 60% of success at choosing the outcome of a slice.
d) Droid Armor Modules (Revamped)) - The concept behind this idea is to include experimentation values on all droid armor, similar to the way Armorsmith armor is experimented on. Currently Droid Armor Modules have the same stats depending on the module's level. Allowing experimentation values to effect all Droid Armor Modules will reduce the 'cookie cutter droids' and allow for improvements to each droids armor rating. Level 5 and 6 Droid Armor Modules could even be made with Composite Armor Segments that contain Krayt Tissues and actually improve the armor rating even higher. To balance out this 'improved' droid armor, I would suggest placing a maximum armor rating on certain droids, such as the Probot, and increasing the resources needed to produce Level 3,4,5, & 6 Droid Armor Modules. Such changes would help to balance out a few different issues, if this concept was used.
5) Since it would seem that modular droid function is here to stay, the different droid types need to be updated accordingly so that different droid types can fill different roles, depending on what types of modules can be installed. I believe that certain modules should be limited to certain droid types, as well as having a limit on what level modules can be installed, as per listed above. Also included is a listed of special functions that a few droids gain, whether due to modules installed, or inherent function. The following is a concept list of proposed changes to each of the current droids, based on the information listed so far.
MSE - 1 Service Module. Limited to level 1 & 2 Medical, Data Storage, and Item Storage.
Advanced MSE - 2 Service Modules, 1 Armor Module (Light 40%).
Limited to level 1, 2, & 3 Medical, Data storage, and/or Item Storage.
R5 - 1 Service Module. Limited to level 1, 2, & 3 Medical, Data storage, Item Storage,
Slicing, Entertainment, Repair or basic Crafting station.
DZ70 - 1 Service Module. Limited to level 1, 2, & 3 Medical, Data storage, or Item
Storage. *Ranged combat attack.
Treadwell - 1 Service Module. Limited to level 1, 2, & 3 Data storage, Item Storage,
Repair or basic Crafting station.
Advanced R5 - 2 Service Modules. 1Armor Module (Light 50%) Limited to level
1, 2, 3, & 4 Medical, Data storage, Item Storage Slicing, Entertainment, Repair,
or basic Crafting station.
Advanced DZ70 - 2 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 25%)
Limited to level 1, 2, 3, & 4 Medical, Data storage, or Item Storage.
*Ranged combat attack
Advanced Treadwell - 2 Service Module. 1Armor Module (Light 50%)
Limited to level 1, 2, 3, & 4 Data storage, Item Storage, Repair, or basic
Crafting station. * The repair module in this droid not only repairs wounds to
Health and Action, but it also repairs all normal damage as well. (White Bar)
R4 - 2 Service Modules. Limited to level 1, 2, 3, & 4 Medical, Data storage, Item Storage
Slicing, Entertainment, Repair, or basic Crafting station.
Power Droid - 2 Service Modules. Limited to level 1, 2, 3, & 4 Data storage, Item Storage,
or basic Crafting station. *Repairs only Mind wounds, while recharging another
droid. Never needs to be recharged.
Advanced R4 - 3 Service Modules. 1Armor Module (Medium 25%) Limited to level
1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 Medical, Data storage, Item Storage Slicing, Entertainment, Repair,
basic Crafting station, and/or Crafting Station Package.
Advanced Power Droid - 3 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 25%) Limited to
level 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 Data storage, Item Storage, and/or basic Crafting station
*Repairs only Mind wounds, while recharging another droid.
Never needs to be recharged.
Probot - 1 Armor Module (Medium 40%) *Ranged combat attack.
R2 - 3 Service Modules. 1Armor Module (Medium 25%) Limited to level 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5
Medical, Data storage, Item Storage Slicing, Entertainment, Repair, basic Crafting
station, and/or Crafting Station Package.
Surgical Droid - 2 Service Modules. Limited to level 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 Medical, Data storage, Item
Storage, Entertainment, basic Crafting station, and/or Repair Modules.
*Functions as if it had a Medical Module Rating of 10 installed. Proximity to the
Surgical Droid (10 meters or less) will heal 2 wounds per 1 minute of Health
or Action, or their sub-stats.
LE Repair Droid - 2 Service Modules. Limited to level 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 Data storage, Item
Storage, Entertainment, Medical, and/or basic Crafting station. *Functions as if
a Repair Module was installed. Repairs all Health and Action wounds on any
Droid targeted, as well as any normal damage (white bar).
Advanced Surgical Droid - 3 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 25%) Any level
Data storage, Item Storage, Entertainment, basic Crafting station, Crafting Station
Package, and/or Repair Modules. *Functions as if it had a Medical Module
Rating of 12 installed. Proximity to the Advanced Surgical Droid (10 meters or less)
will heal 3 wounds per 1 minute of Health or Action, or their sub-stats.
Advanced LE Repair Droid - 3 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 25%) Any
level Data storage, Item Storage, Entertainment, basic Crafting station, Crafting
Station Package, and/or Medical Module. *Functions as if a Repair Module was
installed. Repairs all Health and Action wounds on any Droid targeted, as
well as any normal damage (white bar). Repairs Droid Vitality, as if a Pet
Vitality pack was used.
Advanced Probot - 1 Service Module. 1 Armor Module (Medium 50%) Any Medical,
Item Storage, or Data Storage Module.
Advanced R2 - 4 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 40%) Any Medical, Data
storage, Item Storage, Slicing, Entertainment, Repair, basic Crafting station, and/or
Crafting Station Package. *Slicing Modules gain a 5% bonus when installed on
an Advanced R2 Unit.
Protocol Droid - 2 Service Modules. Any Medical, Data storage, Item Storage, Repair,
basic Crafting station, Entertainment and/or Crafting Station Package.
Binary Load Lifter - 4 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 50%) Any Data
storage, Item Storage, basic Crafting station, and/or Crafting Station Package.
*A BLL can have up to 3 Item Storage Modules installed, with each module
adding to the total storage space, with a maximum of 25 spaces. Item Storage
Modules installed on a BLL do not follow the stacking rules defined above.
R3 - 5 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 40%) Any Medical, Data storage,
Item Storage, Slicing, Entertainment, Repair, basic Crafting station, and/or
Crafting Station Package. *Slicing Modules gain a +5% bonus when installed
on an R3 Unit
Advanced Protocol Droid - 3 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 40%) Any
Medical, Data storage, Item Storage, Repair, basic Crafting station, Entertainment
and/or Crafting Station Package. *Entertainment Modules gain a +10 bonus
when installed in an Advanced Protocol Droid.
Advanced Binary Load Lifter - 6 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 65%)
Any Data storage, Item Storage, basic Crafting station, and/or Crafting Station
Package. *An Advanced BLL can have up to 4 Item Storage Modules
installed, with each module adding to the total storage space, with a
maximum of 35 spaces. Item Storage Modules installed on a BLL do not follow
the stacking rules defined above.
Advanced R3 - 6 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 50%) Any Medical,
Data storage, Item Storage, Slicing, Entertainment, Repair, basic Crafting station,
and/or Crafting Station Package. *Slicing Modules gain a +10% bonus when
installed on an Advanced R3 Unit
6) The next suggestion is pretty important to the entire profession and needs to be handled with the utmost care. The cap that was placed, when Probots were nerfed, needs to be removed. Right now, when ever a droid is built a Droid Engineer can only produce a 0.005 to .015% increase to HAM, even if he/she is using the very best resources available. This HAM increase appears to only effect the displayed information while in Deed form and in the datapad. For instance, I have an Advanced Probot that has 823 HAM, according to the datapad, but when I call the droid and look at its HAM bar (by selecting the droid and performing a mouse over on the HAM bar) it only reads as having 820 HAM. The combat damage values have a bit higher percentage increase, but even this percentage increase is lower than what is seen in other crafting professions. I suspect that even the damage increase follows suit with the HAM increase and only displays an increase, with out better performance.
The difficulty with removing the current cap is that we could see the return of the Pre-Nerf Probots, with their 3200 HAM and 200 damage. What I suggest is a change in the cap placement, so that experimentation actually makes a difference in droid construction. This item alone would make many Droid Engineers happy, until new content can be added. One of the largest complaints, besides new combat droids, is that each and every droid comes out looking virtually the same. If experimentation actually had a play in each droids construction, many DEs would be able to offer their customers something not seen since the days before Probots were nerfed; a little variety in their work. Currently, only 2 droid types would see a major effect if the cap was removed; the Probot and the DZ70. This is what I suggest for each droid.
DZ70 - Both the HAM and the damage on the DZ70 need to be changed; in order for experimentation to actually have balanced effect on this seldom used droid. The HAM needs some major rethinking, since it only takes 2-3 hits by a creature that most Newbies can kill in as many shots with a CDEF Pistol. I suggest that the base HAM on a DZ70 be raised to 200 and have a maximum around 600, through experimentation, with the Advanced DZ70 being 250 to 650. I also suggest that the damage be reworked so that the base damage starts at 30, with a maximum damage around 75. With the average price of a DZ70 currently being about 3-5k, depending on the server, this change would open up a market for some Novice DEs as well as provide a combat droid to the beginning players, with out unbalancing combat; as in the case of many non-CH pets. The HAM and damage may look low, compared to the current CL15 pets, but consider that an Advanced DZ70 with Medium 25% Armor and 650 HAM would be able take about the same amount of damage as a Cowardly Guerreck.
Probot - With Medium 40% Armor, the current Probots actually make fairly good tanks, compared to many of the non-CH pets available, if you do not think include the fact that you can heal a creature pet during combat. I actually like the way that the Probot is currently set up, but I have never seen a Pre-Nerf Probot in action. What I suggest is a less dramatic change, then what I proposed for the DZ70. I suggest the base HAM for a Probot start at 600 with the maximum HAM capping out at about 1100, for heavily experimented results. For the Advanced Probot I suggest the base starting at 650 with the maximum result capping out at 1200. For the damage on both droids, I suggest a base of 45 and a maximum damage of 140. This could put both Probot models on par with the damage of CL15 creatures. Both changes give enough room for experimentation improvements, but at the same time doesn't make either droid overpowering enough to warrant the need for a certification. Both Probot versions, with their maximum allowed armor could take more damage than any of the current non-CH pets that are available, healing not included.
7) The biggest request from many DEs, and droid owners/enthusiasts, is for new combat droids. The problem with adding new, more powerful combat droids is that there really does need to be a system in place that will limit the number of combat droids running around, besides the Probot. With the recently proposed changes to non-CH pets droids will more than likely fill the need for a tank-able pet. If combat droids are implemented without a cert system, the same problems that are occulting now with non-CH pets will occur in the future. I'll share my ideas on the cert system after I list the proposal for new combat droids, one of which is a DE specific droid
Before I list the droids, I need to point out something to some of the people who claim that Battle Droids and Droidekas should not be craftable by DEs. Most of the comments that I have seen regarding the reasons behind not being able to craft these two combat droids have been either that these droids don't belong in this time line, or that combat droids have been banned by the Empire. Both reason don't hold any weight in the Star Wars galaxy, if you take into consideration how large the realm of space we are talking about is and how old some of the equipment is that can be found throughout the galaxy. Take the R2 series for example. For those that say the design of the above mentioned combat droids are too old, might I remind you that the R2 series is supposed to be quite a bit older than any of the Battle Droid designs and should by all rights be out of production, since 3 additional R units have replaced it; the R3 series, the R4 series, and the 'youngest of the bunch' the R5 series.
By some accounts, the R2 series is well over 200 years old, since the time that the first R2 unit rolled of the assembly line. As for the ban on Combat Droids, this ban did not effect everyone, since many Imperial corporations were given licenses to own and produce combat droids, not to mention the large number of droids that are bought and sold on the 'Shadow Market' in such places as Corellia. The 'ban' argument doesn't hold any water due to the fact that anyone can run around carrying a weapon the size of a LLC, when any weapon larger that a Scout Blaster shouldn't be allowed on the streets. I apologize if the last sounded like a rant, but I felt that I needed added it before the so-called 'Traditionalists' come out of the wood work. The two most truthful reasons why we only see two combat droids in the original trilogy are a) Good ol' George hadn't even thought of Episode I yet b) There wasn't a budget or special effects to have them in 1977, 1980, or 1983. Now, on with the show
Battle Droid - Known by many as the Rodger-Rodger Droid, the Battle Droid should become part of any combat professional's line-up. With a suggested maximum armor rating of Medium 50% Armor, HAM that could range from 850 to 1700, and damage in the range of 60 to 180, the Battle Droid would be a nice upgrade from the Probot, but wouldn't add to the over balancing situation, due to the certification needed to 'command' one. The Battle Droid would be limited to few modules, due to its specialized role and would only accommodate 1 Service Module and 1 Armor Module. The suggested Service Modules are Item Storage, Data Storage, Repair Module, or Medical Module. This Droid would become available at Blueprints III, along with the Adv. Battle Droid Chassis, and would require the following components during construction.
120 Steel
100 Chemical
1 Droid Brain
1 Manipulator Arm
1 Droid Sensor
2 Advanced Droid Motive System #
1 Blaster-Rifle Barrel (Weaponsmith Firearms Crafting 1)
1 Droid Armor Module (Optional)
1 Service Module (Optional)
Advanced Battle Droid - A slight upgrade to the Battle Droid, the Advanced Battle Droid would be acquired at Blueprints IV, and would have the following stats; 2 Droid Service Modules chosen from Item Storage, Data Storage, Repair Module, or Medical Module , 1000 to 2000 HAM, 70 to 190 damage, and a maximum armor rating of Medium 60% Armor. The suggested components are:
1 Adv. Battle Droid Chassis
120 Steel
100 Chemical
1 Droid Brain
1 Manipulator Arm
1 Droid Sensor
2 Advanced Droid Motive System #
2 Blaster-Rifle Barrel (Weaponsmith Firearms Crafting 1)#
190 Chemical
90 Chemical
1 Droid Brain
1 Droid Armor Module(Optional)
2 Droid Service Modules (Optional)
Droideka - The Ultimate in combat droids, the Droideka, or Destroyer, would make a great addition to the DEs repertoire of droids. Acquired at Blueprints IV, the suggested stats for the Droideka are as follows; 1200 to 2500 HAM, 75 to 200 damage, and a maximum armor rating of Medium 75% Armor. Due to the extreme dedication, this module of the Droideka doesn't have any room to spare on Service Modules. The suggested components are
500 Duralloy Steel
500 Duranium Steel
500 Fiberplast
500 Metal
1 Advanced Droid Brain
2 Advanced Droid Motive Systems#
2 Droid Sensor#
1 Micro Sensor
2 Manipulator Arms#
2 Advanced Droid Frames#
2 Blaster-Rifle Barrel (Weaponsmith Firearms Crafting 1)#
1 Droid Armor Module (Optional)
*Advanced Droideka - Available at Master Droid Engineer and only useable by those with the correct droid cert the Advenced Droideka is the ultimate in combat droids. The suggested stats are as follows; 1500 to 3000 HAM, 85 to 225 damage, and a maximum rating of Medium 80% Armor. Besides the upgraded HAM, damage, and armor, three other features make the Advanced Droideka a worth prize to any who qualify. 1) 2 Droid Service Module slots 2) Optional Shielding, which could either increase the armors maximum value to Heavy 20% or max out the Medium armors resistances to 100% 3) A slightly larger appearance than the basic module. The Advanced Droideka Chassis for this droid would appear in the Blueprints IV box. The suggested components are:
1 Advanced Droideka Chassis
500 Duralloy Steel
500 Duranium Steel
500 Fiberplast
500 Metal
2 Advanced Droid Brain#
2 Advanced Droid Motive Systems#
2 Droid Sensor#
2 Micro Sensor #
2 Manipulator Arms#
2 Advanced Droid Frames#
4 Blaster-Rifle Barrel (Weaponsmith Firearms Crafting 1)*
250 Chemical
250 Chemical
1 Droid Armor Module (Optional)
2 Droid Service Modules (Optional)
Any Medical, Data storage, Item Storage, Repair, basic Crafting station, and/or Crafting
Station Package.
2 Power Conditioner (Optional - for shield)#
2 Energy Distributors (Optional - for shield)#
2 Deflector Shield Emitter Assembly* (Armorsmith - Deflectors I)
#Denotes Factory Items
Ideasupplied by Droid_Engineer_Rho.
Anyway, what you were saying about crafting packages made a lot of sense to me, and seems like a good reason to package crafting, item and data storage in one droid.
Now let's take it one step further: You use the droid to make five schematics, hook it up to an equipment factory, and say 'go'. It extends it's computer interface arm, and gets to work.
Two days later, without further intervention on your part, your factory output hopper is filled with 500 GP modules, 500 Memory modules, 250 Control units, 100 Droid Brains, and a partirdge in a pear tree.
Doh. I read that a little bit before I wrote this version up and was going to added, but forgot. Make that 2 suggestions from Rho.
Keep them coming.
I think I'm going to have to add another page to list the people who have contributed ideas to this on going thread, in its next incarnation.
I like a lot of your ideas, although I am still unsure about the usefulness of having Levels for the modules (in fact, in having modules at all, but that is another topic). The problem stems from the fact that most people will only settle for the best. If you add more perks to the top modules then people are going to want those modules and little else. Money is hardly an issue in SWG, so anything people want, they can get. So addressing the usefulness of the other "levels" still remains a problem. I completely agree that modules should be restricted by droids, but if we limit some of the lower tier droids only to low level modules, then they will probably not sell at all(not that they sell much now except as a novelty). Each droid should have at least one module that is unique to that series, like the power core is to the Power Droid. The MSE can explode (cheesy idea, but in the right direction). The LE-Repair droid and Tredwell could be the only ones with Repair Kits, and so forth. That way different droids have different things to offer and there will be a reason for actually having a variety of droids. Each might still have a common set of modules, but there has to be something that sets droids apart from each other.
Clusters are a double edged sword. The give the ability to low-end DE's to make items of Master quality. At the same time, they make it pointless to BE a master. At Master the only things you get different are the Adv BiLLBoard (which has little use) and the Adv Protocol (just one utility module?!; The Adv MSE is better). When experimentation has meaning, this will become less of a problem since MDE will be able to make "better" modules. Still, stacking clusters within clusters is a definite exploit, since it allows for the super-I-can-do-everything-you-can droids. Also, clusters should not fit in regular slots. Why would we have slots specifically labeled "Droid Cluster Socket" otherwise on R3's and Adv Surgical droids? Why not just name the all "Droid module socket" if they where intended to be the same? The developers need to clarify this one.
I love the Crafting module socket. Architects might see this as an invasion of their turf, but as long as the rating remains reasonable, there should be no problem.
Also, I like the idea of the entertainer module. This has been spoken of before and I believe that the developers DID post a response stating that this would empty out the cantinas. I think they should make the cantinas more desirable then. Entertainers have to be tired of sitting in the same place all the time. Free the entertainers!
The droid cert system looks convoluted as holy heck. But I never shirk from complexity. My only question stems from why would one want to have that many pets out in the first place? This is not a criticism, but a real question. Why would you want 3 droids, plus 2 pets, etc. We already see the CH changes comming where they will be limited to two creatures. Perhaps everyone should be capped at two pets, regardless of type? Two combat pets (droids, faction, creature) are a nice addition to a player's DPS. Do we need more? Now, why would we have one non-combat pet and one combat pet out? Perhaps one to heal? Modules in droids makes this useless (pop in a Lvl 6 medical module in a probot... voila! No need for a non-combat droid; I don't like unrestricted use of modules
). I do believe that if the option to exists to get out a ton of pets out, the power gamers will flock to it. Lots to think about, but I'd like to thank Drashk for propossing these ideas. They are very good and give us both a plan and direction. Something that we've been lacking for too long.
You know me D. For those of you that don't know, Dremon is my partner on Shadowfire.
Ok, I'll try and go through and answer a few of the concerns/quesions. I agree that there is a major problem with the level/module issue, however with the proposed changes you can stack more than just 2 modules together in order to gain the full rating. It would take 4 Level 4 Medical Modules with a rating of 7 or 8 per each module to equal the effectiveness of 1 Level6 (13 rating) and 1 Level 2 (5 rating) Medical Modules in any other droid but the Surgical and Advanced Surgical Droid.
The lower end droids do need module level restrictions. The case in point is the problem that so many have commented about already, the Power MSE. Removing the ability to place Cluster Modules in non-Cluster Sockets, or removing them entierly as proposed, would limit the 'Uber' Mouse, but there would still be those that would make MSE with a max medical rating to undercut other DEs that will not make MSE, like myself. By placing a module level cap that is dependent on the Blueprints level an ADV MSE could still be equiped with2 level 3 modules, which would give it a 100 Medical rating, which is still quite appealing to a Novice Medic, especially at a 3k price tag on the bazaar.
I tried to add in a few module/add function ideas to the current droids, such as in the case of the Surgical,Adv Surgical, Adv Treadwell and a few other droids, but to be honest I wanted other peoples input to offered up, so that this could be a group effort made by the community. The other problem I have tried to stay away from, especially in regards to existing droids, is that what will happen to all of the droids that already exisit, if some of these changes took place. If too many functions are added, a lot of current droid owners will suddenly start coming back to their local DE and demand to trade in their droid for the upgraded version. By setting some limits on what Droid can have what module, as outlined above, I think that each droid gains a bit more of a specific role.
The Droid Cert system needs some improvement, I will admit, but I haven't had any solid feedback on it yet. I've seen a few other proposed systems, but nothing as of yet that would limit the proposed Combat Droids in a 'ideal' way.
I listed the posible issue of the MCH/MDE/Colonel issue because someone brought it up on the previous version. It could be a real problem with it isn't handled correctly, which is why I stressed it a little bit. SinceI removed the MDE only Advanced Droideka (in hopes that this thread would appease the anti-DE-only camp) but felt that MDEs still needed the ability to call out a second combat droid (mentioned in one of the compromise threads by the same anti-DE-only camp). Giving the MDE the ability to call upon2 different types of Combat Droid (based on the cert system) and 1 Utility Droid gives the MDEa slight advantage in combat but is not as beneficial as becoming a Master CH that can call 3 pets that are a lot higher in level. (Yes, the number of MCH pets is still going to be 3, as was corrected by TH in a later post.)
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
I disagree with this. Any droid should be able to hold any module. This proposed change will limit customer chasis choice by impairing chasis functionality. I think R5s look way cooler than gimpy conehead R4s but with this change I have to go with R2s or R3s to get the best modules.
When adding the section about limiting the level of a module to the Bluprints level it is found in, I was thinking of the effect that MSE with Level 6 medical modules have on some servers. As a MDE, I no longer offer any droid below a Power Droid, in hopes that a few pioneering Novice DEs use the lack of MSE, R5s, WEDs, and DZ70s to thier advantage. I've turned down many customers due because they wanted high level modules in a low level droid. 9 times out of 10, those that I turned down would end up picking up a droid that they could afford off the Bazaar, which was made by a NDE.
But, like I said this is only a conceptual work in progress and can be changed depending on peoples feed back and already in this version 2 people have voiced thier concerns.
I agree completely. Clusters suck. More regular module slots would be better. Fix other bugs before fixing this one, as cluster-loaded droids are the only current cure for droid gimpishness.
Cluster Modules are actually part of the problem and unless they are removed/fixed none of the proposed changes could take place, including the addition of new modules.
I don't like the idea of nerfing module stacking.This iwll impact Novice DEs ina bad way and tilt the balance twoard masters even more. Two lvl 4s should equal a lvl 6. This is fair as it limits the number of modules you can use in a droid; lower-tech takes up more space, while hi-tech lvl6s take up less. I'd prefer the change to be: Take a Lvl5 or lvl6 plus lvl6s and get the bonuses described in you chart.
Take a look at the chart again. 2 Level 4 Medical modules with a rating of 8 would still be equal to 1 Level 6 Module.However, now there is a point to stack more than two modules or higher level modules in a single droid. Adding more functionswith a higherrating doesn't fix the linear problem wtihstacking, but it does give wider possiblies to work with.
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
I like droid specilazation -- surgicals for meds and LE reapir for repair. These droids should DO SOMETHING besides accept modules.
The dificulty here lies in that if you give more droids specialized roles you begin to do what you mentioned not liking, limiting their function. Lets say that each of the R series gained a differnt craftion station, like they were orginally intended to have. This limits it so that you can only have the crafting station listed in the droid. You also run into the problem of actually creating a distinict function for each droid.
a) Crafting Station Package - Currently, droid crafting stations do not have a function rating, like their Architect built counter parts. Again, either this was an oversight by the DEV team, or they were not intended to have a function rating. I will list a two part concept. The first part is to give all basic droid crafting stations a function rating that is on scale with a Private crafting station that has been made with out the optional parts installed; between -15 and +15.
I think this proposal adds needless complexity and costs to droids for little added benefit. How about just fix the modules so they actually show a rating? Storing schematics in droids automatically means having to pull out the schematic to load it in the factory, unless the droids does that, but with one droid out at a time, it's unclear that you'll take your crafter droid out into the sticks to load up your factory.
A number of people have already indicated that they like this idea. The complexity to create better rated stations is needed in order to justify a high function rating. When you consider the amount of parts that it takes to make a Private Crafting statoin and the requirement in resources needed, the only way to balance a Droid Crafting statoin module to match would be the need to expand its function and complexity. The current droid crafting stations should not have a function rating of anything more than 15, so that they do not out perform the basic Private Crafting stations. Using the functions of other droid modules gives them a secondary function and allows for a little varity in what we can already do.
*b) Entertainment Module - This module would function similar to the Medical version, but instead would affect an Entertainer's ability to heal Mind wounds in and out of the Cantina.
I lie this idea, but I think it calls for an entertainment droid chasis. How does R2 help a go-go dancer? A droid that 1) accompanied music by adding a beat, etc,. 2) added lights/effects to a dancers moves, and/or 3) functioned as an audience member and gave small exp would be cool. But a generic "entetainement module" doesn't appeal to me, except to the extent that I like the functionality you described.
By limiting this abiltity to only one droid, you would limit the market too much. I agree that droids should have individual functions, however the entire concept of modules would have to be removed from the game. And to answer specificly how an R2 unit would help a dancer would be that it has the ability to create a light and show show using this display and audio equipment, shown in A New Hope and Return of the Jedi.
5) I believe that certain modules should be limited to certain droid types, as well as having a limit on what level modules can be installed, as per listed above
I disagee with this wholeheartedly. As I mentioned, you will impair the market for many droids by capping the lvl of their modules. Entertainment modules for entertainment chasis droids only, for example, is fine. Perhaps medical modules in surgicals only... MAYBE ... or item storage only in BLLs (extra item slots). But limiting treadwells to lvl 4 modules (or fill in any number below lvl 6) will make treadwells even more scarse than they are now. Same applies to other non-specialized droids.
There needs to be a limit to what modules can be place in which droid or we still have the problem of being able to place all of the best functions of a Master Droid Engineer into the body of an Advanced MSE. Without a level and module limitations in place, you will still end up with the dreaded Super Medical MSE. If you will notice something about the exampled Treadwell, in the Advanced module, a repair module gives the droid the added function of healing Health and Action damage.
It may not be a perfect system, but the concepts listed would help to strengthen the droid economy and not destroy it, like the current system is slowly doing.
First of all let me say that this has been one of the best post I have ever read. But with that said I have one problem with it and that is the cert system. This second version is better then the first version but there are still some problems with it. So with that said here is my plain tell me what u think:
I have broken down the droids in to combat, advance-combat and non-combat.
A new character when created will get cert for 2 non-combat droids.
Once a character gain one 4 tier skill lever ( pistol4, unarmed4, hunting4 ect...)they get cert for an additional non-combat droid.
Then when a character gets their second 4 tier skill lever any profession they get cert for 1 combat droid.
If any character masters a starting profession or becomes a novice in any other non-starting profession they get cert for an additional non-combat droid.
Once a character gain two second tier skill levels in any non-starting profession they get cert for an advance-combat droid.
So to put this into practice a novice brawler gets 2 non-combat droids, if the character masters unarmed they get one more non-combat droid. If they then take novice marksman and masters pistol they get their first combat droid. If they move on to smuggler they get cert for an additional non-combat droid. Once they become smuggler 0/2/0/2 they get cert for an advance-combat droid.
Once a character gains 2 4 teir skills in any non-starting professions they get cert for an additional advavance-combat droid. So a character who starts out as a novice brawler masters unarmed, becomes novice maksmen masters pistol and becomes a master smuggler would be cert for: 4 non-combat droids, 1 combat droid, 1 advance-combat droid
At this time I need to say that i would limit the number of droids a person may have to 5 for any non MDE charater. A master DE would get 6 with one being their Advanced Droideka.My ressaning for this is that unlike animals droids aremade to take orders so we should be able to have more droids out then pets.
DE would follow a difrent path. They would get the 2 non-combat droids when start out as novice artisian and the additionalnon-combat droidwhen they master eng 4. When they become novice DE they get cert for2 additional noncombat droid and1combat droid. When theyget 2 second tier skill trees they get cert for 1 advavanced combat droid and an additional regular combat droid. When they master DE they get the cert for 1 moe advance-combat droid, they get the abbility to use the Advanced Droideka and the ability to call out 6 droids. so a MDE would be cert for 5 non-combat droids, 2 combat droids, 2 advance combat droids.
tell me what u think
PS. sorry for the spelling mistakes.
Thanks for the input Awol80, but there are a few major problems with this idea. First off, everyone will have the ability to call only 1 pet/droid/faction perk when the proposed patch to CHs comes out. That info seems to be pretty solid and should be hitting live in the next few months, maybe even in the next publish, after Creature Mounts and Player Cities. Next, the over all amount of droids that one person can call is way too high. The maximum number that anyone should, and currently can (in regards to pets and perks) call would be 3. Finally, the reason that the number of uncerted pets/droids/faction perks are being reduced to 1 is due to combat balancing issues. There needs to be a restriction on the number of classes that can call more than one combat pet/droid.