Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: This Division is killing us
Actually, Drashk, there is nothing in your character's experience or needs that says that the droid that protects him must be DE-only. All he really needs is a combat droid, but it might just as well be one that any other crafter could use also.
The primary division is between people who like the profession the way it isand people who essentially want to morph DE into a quasi-new profession that resembles Creature Handler. As near as I can tell we all agree that the current bugs need to be fixed and that Droid Engineers in general need some lovin'. I believe that we would all like to see new utility modules, new utility droids, and even new combat droids that anyone can use. Can we just start there and leave the problem decision until we've seen what effect, if any, that the stuff we AGREE on has?
Domacett wrote:
Droid Engineers have been a united group since open beta. We all stood together and waged war on the development teams. Of course, it did very little good.
But now, we have their attention and Thunderheart shatters our world with a few simple questions.
The debate rages about the DE-only combat droid. I have never seen the profession so divided among it's members.
There has to be a peaceful resolution to this debate otherwise Thunderheart and the gang will either make a decision without us, or drag their feet trying to figure out how to make us happy.
Domacett,
This is really a philosophical issue. Philosophical issues are hard to resolve since it has to do with how people want to see things. I think the two sides have very different perspectives on how to play the game. If I may hazard some assumptions...
The DE-only droid side view the game situation where CH has basically run amok, and that since it's an irreversible problem, droids should counterbalance that. I think many of them understand that because we don't want droids to run amok either, that a droid that can stand more or less against a decent creature should be subject to the same restrictions as the Creature Handlers face. At the same time, most of these folks still like doing their crafting and selling so that's why we have the suggestion to only have one droid that other people can't buy. It is seen asa kind of counter-balance for all the overly powerful creature pets. Some people also view the non-DE combat droid as kind of a signature for Master Droid Engineers. Essentially that a droid engineer should naturally be able to use more powerful droids. Others view it as repayment for the pain we've had to go through as DEs. Even othershave saidthey hate trying to sell droids and just want to fight, and thus would like a droid that will make them succesful in that arena.
These reasons are all valid and make sense from this perspective that the CH creatures need a counter-balance.
The no DE-only droidside also view that the CH situation isa mistake, but that the solution is not to counter-balance but to restrict. Droids that approach the power of the big creatures seems to onlymagnify the problem. If people don't like folks with rancors, the same will go for DEs with ubber droids. Conversely, if the MDE droid is only a little better than the bestcombat droid we can sell, then that droid should be acceptablefor the general audience to use also. So a lot of this side seems to believe that either the DE-only droid will just mess things up more, or that to make it restricted and just a bit better than normal combat droids is pointless.Another sentiment is that it is unfair to most other crafting professions who don't have such a perk at a higher level. Regardless of whether droid engineers think we are a crafting profession, there's a good chance that the AS/WS/Architects will think we are, and will be asking for perks too if DEs get one.This might introduce things likesuperguns, or ultra tough armour, which would further imbalance combat. If they don't get the perk and we do, the sympathy we havemight turn into murmuring against us.
So the no DE-only droid perspective feels views these more powerful pets/droids as a detriment to the game, and a potentially bigger problem concering how other professions might react.
I think both perspectives have equally valid reasons (except the one where we deserve a permanent perk for suffering for months...I disagree.If we get repayment it should just be a one-time deal for those who actually suffered through it), but the fighting is really a philosophical one about which one is better. Maybe we should be a counter-balance for CH? Maybe DE's should be able to control more powerful droids? But then again, maybe it's not healthy for the game, and maybe we should stick to crafting? These are all really just beliefs about where we feel DE should fit into the game.
That's why in the end I think I'll be able to accept either one. It's just right now I think the no-DE only approach is the better one. It's the only issue we're really fighting on, and in everything else we pretty much agree.
This may be just my observation, but I feel the "Crafter DEs" don't mind DE-only Combat Droids. In fact, it's certainly a good thing. However, I think we do mind if all Combat Droids are DE only. One or two is nice, but we'd like a market for them, a market governed by a sensible Cert system.
The Plan suggests almost all combat droids be DE-Only. That is where we take issue.
SigmaTech wrote:
This may be just my observation, but I feel the "Crafter DEs" don't mind DE-only Combat Droids. In fact, it's certainly a good thing. However, I think we do mind if all Combat Droids are DE only. One or two is nice, but we'd like a market for them, a market governed by a sensible Cert system.
The Plan suggests almost all combat droids be DE-Only. That is where we take issue.
No, actually, the main point of contention is whether or not there should be ANY DE-only combat droids.
Adding them is NOT "certainly a good thing" because it makes a fundamental change to what a Droid Engineer is. Right now we are a crafter that is no different than any other crafter. If you add a DE-only combat droid, especially if that droid is more powerful than all other combat droids that we can make, you have turned the Droid Engineer into a combat class.
We do all seem to agree that more combat droids would be a good thing. The point of contention is whether or not the best combat droids should be DE-only.
Kollos wrote:
Actually, Drashk, there is nothing in your character's experience or needs that says that the droid that protects him must be DE-only. All he really needs is a combat droid, but it might just as well be one that any other crafter could use also.
Actually Kollos, you are incorrect about that statment. Droid Engineers are unique from other crafting professions in that our product can talk back to us. As a Droid Engineer, you spend more time around droids than any other profession, including Bounty Hunters that take about 170 game hours of Seeker and Probe Droid use. I beleive that not every crafting profession should have a perk that they gain at master that is only usable by a master. Droid Engineers are plainly crafters, but what other crafter is able to make a product that you can have perform a function when commanded, with out having someone else train it? Droid Engineers should be able to craft a product that only they can command because they have the ability to do so. Anyone can pick up any gun and use it, however in order to use its full potential you must be certified to use it. There is already precedence for droids that are profession specific. Why should DEs be excluded from having a profession specific droid? A DE specific Combat Droid makes a lot more sense in a universe torn by civil war, than a utility droid that no one has even proposed an idea for.
Can I get a show of hands from the people that have actually though about what this major rift in our profession could actually lead to? A complete split of the Droid Engineer profession. We could end up with the Utiltiy Droid Engineer and theCombat Droid Engineer.Would that make everyone happy?
Again, take a look at this thread and you will see what I have in mind.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=35920
COMBAT DROID ENGINEER ! as an elite profession.
Of course the pure crafters would still complain if we could build/use something they couldn't
Why does this rift you forsee have to come between Utility Droid Engineers and Combat Droid Engineers. A much more obvious division would be Droid Engineer and Droid Handler.
Droid Engineers do not have the ability to craft an item that only they can use. You're mixing "reality" with game balance. In fact, the more advanced a droid is the more likely that it should be usable by anyone.
Hey, there's an idea... the DE-only droid should be the Mouse droid!
Droid-Creator wrote:
COMBAT DROID ENGINEER ! as an elite profession.
Of course the pure crafters would still complain if we could build/use something they couldn't
Nope, that's perfectly acceptable. That's the profession I've been calling Droid Handler.
You know what would be really cool? If the Droid Handler couldn't build droids themselves, but rather could only modify Droid Engineer built droids to do cooler things.
It has already been stated that Droid Engineers will be gaining additional combat droids and that the DEVs are trying to shift everyone to a more 'Star Warsy' feel by making Droids more prominent. We all have to face that there is a distinict possiblity that a Combat Droid Profession could sprout up from the increase of combat droids and from the division that runs beween the two current DE camps.
Have you, Kollos. read what it is that I submitted as a concpet plan for everyone to take a look at? I am not interested in having some su-per 'L33T' combat droid that makes all other combat droid look like a DZ70. I want a combat droid that will be slightly better than one that can be had by a Novice of an Elite combat profession, but only as a Master Droid Engineer. I am not asking for a droid that can take on a Master CHs pet and win. All I want is something that is just a little bit better than what others can have and am using my character perspective to get the point across. I believe that all professions should have a Master only perk, it gives everyone more incentive to become a Master of that profession, but I am a DE and as a DE this a combat droid is what appeals to me most, since no one has been able to propose a Utility droid that actually would be a good MDE perk.
For all of those that have commented on how something like this would 'ruin' our profession with those that only want the combat perk and would sell low on the bazaar; This is already happening on every server and will actually increase regardless of whether or not there are more DEs just for the 'uber combat droid'. The same thing can apply to all of those that are trying to Master DE that were told by their Holocron.
Give us a Master DE only droid, or don't gie us a Master DE only droid... Does it really matter? We're finally getting loving!
Seriously... If you really want a DE only droid... would you be that pissed if it didn't happen if they fixed our profession, added new modules, added new droids... How bad would that be?
If you really don't want a DE only droid... would you be that pissed if it happened if they fixed our profession, added new modules, added new droids... How bad would that be?
Bottom line... Give us one, or don't give us one... For the love of god, just fix our profession, add new modules, and add new droids... How hard would that be?
Au-Ru Blasterkin - Master Droid Engineer of Intrepid
The problem is that during Beta, those that were Droid Engineers were in the profession for the second word "engineering" ... they were NOT interested in using DE as any kind of combat role. They just simply wanted to build and sell droids.
In the first month of release, it remained pretty much the same. It was a crafting profession, and those that joined did it to craft.
Then Q-3PO shot us all in the head by telling us the Probot will be nurfed. As if that wasn't bad enough, he then proceeded to say that "combat droids will be added with a cert system". THAT is where the problem lies.
In the space of 3 months, many people have taken DE under the impression it will allow them to use ubber combat droids.
I'm willing to bet that the majority of the "combat camp" have only been DE for 2-3 months. I'm also willing to bet that the majority of them are not Master DE's. IMHO they should not even be considered in the decisions of the DE future.
Vampiric_Hoshi wrote:
I'm willing to bet that the majority of the "combat camp" have only been DE for 2-3 months. I'm also willing to bet that the majority of them are not Master DE's. IMHO they should not even be considered in the decisions of the DE future.
Wow it's takes a lot of arrogance to make statement like that. I'm sorry, butI'm one of those 'majority' DEs that has been around for only 2-3 months and I am in the 'combat camp', however I have been a MDE for 2 Months now, plus 1 day, and I have been very active as a droid advocate on my server. I have educated a lot of people about the usage of droids and have a very prosperous business on Shadowfire. All of this is due to the fact that I know my shtick. On the DE forum, I have post a number of threads that have gotten some pretty good replies from 'my elders' and you have the adacity to make a statement like this because I wasn't chosen to be a beta tester? That is a very elitist way of thinking and only make me come to the conclusion that only you should have no say in any decisions made in regards to the Droid Engineering Professions Future.
By the way, I'm guessing that you didn't notice that Sintrosi is actually in agreence with the 'combat camp' does this mean that she shouldn't have a say in the professions future either?