Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: The DH, and my arguments for it- Dev attention appreciated
Nice post DarkMist. I’ve tried to come up with variants on the cert system, but when you really look at them, they can’t properly address the balance issues.
I’m still going with my abstain vote on the DC issue (another vote for the Droid Controller name here 
) as I’d like to see a bit of a hybrid system.
I’d go for Droid Controller if there were the possibility of there also being certs for advanced Master Crafters capped at say CL 20 or 25, or whatever number that is not too high to great disrupt balance. This allows the more combat orientated to go for the CL 60 type droids in the DC profession, but also allows a crafter type who can’t invest in combat (I can only get three pistoleer skill boxes myself) to be able to join in on the fun in combat. I had great fun doing CoA3 last night with my guild mates, but I could only take out about two stormtroopers in a row before me and my Probot were toast.
And even if there were only the DC profession, this wouldn’t greatly reduce the market for droids if there were a greater array of utility droids available too. All the droids we see in the original trilogy weren’t combat droids but utility droids. Give us a wide variety of droids that everyone will want. Combat droids are like a bonus imo.
As for the content and building of the DH skill trees, the DE's in this forum i'm sure have great ideas which could be incorporated into the design, making it a full four tree profession, and one that people would not get tired of too quickly.
My thought was two trees dealing with the actual mods to droid cl, one melee droid tree, and one ranged droid tree, with master adding substantialy to all fields and providing its own benefits.
The two droid style trees could addand augment the droids themselves,which would allow the Droid Commander to show his expertise over use of droids in the field. Firstly, as you progress up the trees, you'd gain skills for the droids in some of the more basic specials relating to their field. For example, a melee Droid might gain one of the various "hit1's" in the first box, while a ranged droid might gain a form of overcharged shot. As you progress up the boxes, more and different droid combat specials would be granted to the droid. These specials could be either used by the AI, or used by the player like normal specials are currently. I could forsee DE's being able to place various weapon modules in droids, and this placement would determine what effect the specials would have. A droidwhowas built with a two handed cert weapon would use two-hand hit 1, and the remainingspecials would be more stylized in the style of two hand skills. A droid who was built with a rifle cert weapon would use specials in the style of the rifle trees.
This wouldnt be meant to have droids take the place of players. Rather, i'd see it as complimenting their abilities. Player and Droid specials should be different enough that theres no total overlap, and player combat power, as far as damage and range of specials, will always be greater then any pets. I think the difference we could have here would be to take advantage of the droids inherent intelligence level, which is far greater then any of the ch pets. Having droids be able to use specials would be the sort of thing that could make the Droid Commander into more then just a ch clone. Just throwing out some more food for thought.
Drashk wrote:
DarkMist,
I think that you have a decent grasp on the situation. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Then I must conclude that *YOU* have no grasp on the situation at all.
You are here for DROID ENGINEERS, not CH's, nor a "DH" profession.
The posting you endorse makes several false assumptions, and it's pathetic that you think that this is a "decent grasp" on the situation.
I've read several posts in the last day or so when you defend yourself - and those postings from the corrispondent boards - but that means nothing when you are out here endorsing messages that are the OPPOSITE of what YOUR COMMUNITY has explained very clearly.
He ends by saying that the reason we all feel the way we do is because of pet hate - PET HATE? Go read some of the early CH-wars threads from the first weeks of play, and see what I think about pets. I'm the one that wishes this game was more like Gallactic Battlegrounds than a FPS. That said, IT IS NOT TIME FOR A DROID HANDLER PROFESSION.
Even someone who is very pro-pet, and wishes everyone had a dozen, like me can see that it is not time for the DE profession to be augmented before it is even completed.
You have no grasp at all on this situation, Drashk, and I'd rather have no corrispondent at all than one who is actively working against the community in postings like this (and no, don't link me to your defense posts, I am talking about what you are endorsing HERE).
Audio
oh and btw im happy when the profession gets divided, i cant stand with those people insulting and hating everyone whohasnt their opinion, even when their opinion is nothing more than no to everything.
we all would be happy to get better ideas but there are none, and i dont think the idea to have nothing is very unattractive.
DarkMist25 wrote:
I have to thank Drashk for understanding my point, and making me feel like less of an intruder on the issue. Things are looking up for DE's, in my opinion. I've followed the DE forums for a fairly long time, and i have nothing but respect for all of you who trudged through the dark months of little contact and no improvments to DE. All i wish is to hear solid reasons as to why DH (yeah..i very much prefer Droid Commander as well..) shouldn't be implemented. All i saw was nearly wall to wall DH bashing, and i sought to try to and figure out why. You already have my theory. Thanks to everyone in advance for their consideration.
Well, you are an outsider on the issue, and coming into a forum and making blatant assumptions about us is rude and uncalled for.
DH should not be implemented because it simply is not the time. Droid Engineering is a half-finished profession, and it is an insult that they would spend development time on a new droid profession when the first one is not completed yet.
Your theory is wrong. Dead wrong. Why? Read the dozens of postings - WE WANT EVERYONE TO HAVE DROIDS.
You haven't followed our forum very closely if you do not know that we think that everyone should be able to use droids and have lots of droids.
That's all your theory boils down to - and it's bunk.
You have no understanding of the situation - when we have been promised fixes for more than six months, and our "fix"hasvery little to do with us.
So, go back to the drawing board, and try to make another blatantly wrong assumption - but next time, don't bother posting. Just spoutcrass generalizations based on yourhurt feelings about being a hated profession to yourself -or PM them to our so-called"corrispondant".
Audio
DarkMist25 wrote:
I have to say that i can't see a reasonable, sensible rationale for all the hatred of the DH idea.
There are plenty of better, comprehensivesolutions out there. Their DH solution is simply the "easiest" to implement. This is one of many reasons why Idislike that idea, and it's a very sensible reason. A community of players should not have it's concerns answered by a single solution solely because it is the easiest for Developers to slap into their current architecture. Ever.
Firstly, the DE community has spoken overwhelmingly about it's desire to remain a pure crafting profession.
I agree and disagree... people have been questioning the "veracity" of polls lately, especially the "DH Yes or No" poll, so I'll go ahead and start my own questioning. I'm assuming your statement here is referring to the poll about whether DE's are a crafter or a combattant class. The problem with that poll is, althouth many answered that we are a Crafting profession, there was no context for that poll at all. On the surface, of course we're crafters, because we do nothing but build (and that poll reflects that factcompletely). This entire furor that we're facing now provides entirely different context than when we were all answering thosevariouspolls. I'll demonstrate below:
(pre DH announcement) Are Droid Engineers a crafting profession? Yes. Duh!
(pre DH announcement) Would you approve of Droid Engineers being given a limited command of CL 20 - 25 combat droids? Probably.
(pre DH announcement)DE's should provide others with good, variable, and useful droids, yes? Sure.
(pre DH announcement) Would you approve of Droid Engineers having to devote skillpoints to a seperate profession tree in order to control combat droids? Probably not!
(post DH announcement) Droid Handler, Yes or No? NO!!
(post DH announcement) How many of you said that Droid Engineers were a "Crafting" profession not knowing thatyour answer was going to lock in DH idea with no further preliminary discussion? Almost all of us!
(post DH announcement) If you knew that your vote on the various"crafter" polls were going to shape the future of the DE profession so dramatically(through the addition of a DH profession and excluding DE's from controlling CL10+ droids), would you change your vote to some third alternative? ????????????????
I understand and respect this decision, even though it doesn't reflect my views or my desired used of droids in combat. TH and the devs understood that decision as well. They then looked for an option which would allow DE's to remain a pure crafting profession, and also satisy the desire of a great many players to fight side by side with droids that are roughly on par as the pets ch's currently use.
I understand what you're saying... but it's my opinion that their perception of us wanting to be a "pure crafter profession" was based on data and opinions stated without reallyuseful context. It's like basing a decision off three questions: "Do you support your Emperor?", "Do you support yourEmperor when we're battling an insurgent rebellion?", "Do you support yourEmperor when we're battling an insurgent rebellion byhelping to buildthe Death Star?"
Secondly, there is a very valid reason why CH is its own, seperate elite profession. If you allow a person to combine high powered pets with certain elite classes, they would become extremely imbalanaced for the games encountersand would throw the system out of whack again. CH's were just put in line with how the rest of the game works. Now, you want to throw it out of balance yet again by giving cl25's to any elite profession?
There are plenty of good ideas out there where not just anyone can have a CL25 droid at their disposal. Why resort to this DH idea without really giving them consideration?
Thirdly, it allows all the items of a common interest to be grouped together in one, sensible profession. Take a look at every profession in the game. Pistoleers handle pistols, and all their specials have to do with the use of these. Armorsmith's deal entirely with amor and its manufacture. Why break with this mold and create a entirely new system of certs when you don't have to? I would argue that everything pertaining to combat droid use should be placed in a profession of its own, so that any who have interest in doing such could just advance up the DHtrees until mastery. Once again, this works well with Ch's, and serves to keep them both in balance and focused on mastery of their profession.
The Certs solution(s) are just one option. Turning DE's into a hybrid profession is another. There are dozens of other alternatives that require little or no modification to the current system and are balanced and fair without the need for a DH class.
I remember being a novice ch, and throwing up my tag in major cities. The comments that a Ch recieves might amaze some of you. It's almost like by becoming aCH you are breaking some major starwars sin, that you must be punished for at every turn by the purists.These people don't stop to think for one moment that I'm playing the profession because A) it's included as part of the game. B) It's fun, and reflectsone way that i enjoy playing this game. I spent my skill points like everyone else on a style of play.Why is this bad?
A. Droid Handlers are not part of the game, currently, so your example doesn't port over directly. By including DH in the game SOE is destroying the hopes of those players who have waited since launch to be able to build and control some modicum of combat droids through the profession they've already chosen: Droid Engineers.
The reason i always see is "it's too much like BE/CH".
Now, why is this bad? Do you realize how sucessful the BE/CH combo is? How much fun both are?
The pure crafters become BE's, and in turn provide pets to the people who want to use them in combat, the CH's. It's a good concept, has much interdependancy, and has worked to create great markets for BE's.
With the right design, the DH profession would be different enough to have many similiarities, but not become a carbon copy of CH.
How about another idea: Maybe the BE's like being unique?... maybe the CH's like being unique?... Maybe the DE's want to be unique and unlike BE's?... Maybe classifying droids as metallic equivalents of gurrecks, gnorts, and rancors is demeaning to the DE's who have waited since launch for them to be something other than a rancor with a different skin? Maybe a third, moderate, sane approach can be trailblazed that is fair to all three professions?
i think we should call the new profession CDC (Combat Droid Commander) maybe then people will understand that everyone gets droids only highlevelcombatdroids will requier skillpoints inCDC as it is not possible ta add droids to combatclasses and imbalancing the game to a way its unplayable.
i know that alot people (bout 3-5% of the community) want to play CDCs, they just dont play DE cause its abit boring to play DE for 6months (DEs are only 0,5% of the community). CDC class can be implemented pretty fast and wont hinder the work on utilitydroids much but utility droids are very difficult for their functions and stuff so that it will take a long time till we get them anyway.