Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Deloo's DC Proposal V 1.0 (with skill tree pic)Profession
I think this is a good basis we can build on. I do have a few suggestions though.
1. I don't think the Repair Tree is a good idea. Everybody should be able to use repair kits. Reconstruction kits could probably be certed, but I don't think they justify a full tree of their own.
2. I like the suggestions for droid special abilities that somebody made - jamming & viruses e.t.c. These could fit well into the programming branch. Daker-Naritus also has some good special abilities ideas in his two-tree suggestion: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=77977.
3. Your Control tree looks a little biased towards the dabblers in terms of droid levels. Perhaps if it was +2,+4,+2,+4 instead of +4,+4,+2,+2?
4. I think your droid programming tree titles could do with a little work. Advanced algorithms and fuzzy logic could perhaps be swapped and Master Protocols should be replaced with something like Neural Computing, Agent Based Systems, State Vector Analysis, Semantic Networks etc.
EnigmaBSc.
I'd hate to see DC be a carbon copy of CH, but I think the reality is that anything else is probably not going to get implemented. For months droids have operated under the same mechanics as pets and still do. Basically they removed the "tame" option in the droid deed. I think the fact that all four trees of a profession were hashed out to some degree is a great starting place for people to offer comments. I hate settling for things as much as anyone, but seriously this may be it if we ever want to see high level combat droids in the game. Our other ideas about game balance got shot down and it was apparent from the small amount of info we have gotten from the devs that they had worked out a DC/DH profession to some degree. I personally think a two tree profession would be a good idea only if you had to have MDE first, otherwise it would suffer from the same balance concerns the devs had before, which was essentially a two tree proposal.
What I would like to know is if the Devs hashed out some specific ideas for DC/DH then maybe those should be the starting point for a discussion of a new profession (maybe I'll dig through some of the old DC/DH posts from way back when). I think a chance to add a new profession to this game is very exciting and to be a part of it even more exciting, if in fact we get that chance.
Message Edited by Daker-Naritus on 04-06-2004 03:50 PM
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Personally, Idislikeany and allDroid Commander 4-tree-profession ideas in any way, shape, or form.
Thats fine theres a 2 tree profession proposal and a faction pet one too i think we should all work to together and get them all to bethe best thay can be and see what evrey one likes as a comunity (ihave always tried to get good ideas floated when i can and even added to these to help them fly)
After the last CH nerf (that nerfed dabbling and divided CL+ pet mods over the whole profession), you barely see any CHs anymore because no one wants to make the massive skill point investment required to have CL70 pets. No one wants to learn 4 trees of abilities to control creatures that developers will not allow to be powerful, and will not let players use as tanks.
some players do .. its just not the "best combattemplat" any more DEis in the same boat the devs wont let it live up to its potentcalbut here we are .. if its in the game some will gavitate to it .. i know i will
I also think it will reserve the coolest combat droids (read: the most appealing and marketable droids) to those few people who spend a massive amount of skill points to justify a CL70 pet, and merely creates a CH cutout. I don't think this would substantially improve droid sales in the manner we want it to.
yes it will limit the best droids to the ones that spend the points same as as MCH does but thats the point with out a good trade off you have no balance. I think it would increas droid sales at all levels
I think it is a much better solution to support a 2 tree proposal with CL30-35 droids( and a lesser skill point investment) instead of a CH 4 tree cutout. Everyone wants to buy the "best" droid they can get, and lowering the top CL (1) allows people to have that with a reasonable skill point investment, (2) prevents the CH cutout syndrome byvarying fromrepetitive levels of pets up to CL70.
thats fine and i hope you do support thepropsal you like all 3 will be in my sig by the end of the day
I also note that there are several ideas in this proposal that I don't think will fly...
(1) You basically have a 2 tree proposal, but needed to spread things out to fit the 4 tree mold. The result is that you steal the repair ability that DEs have and give it to one tree of DC (not going to fly...DEs just got their first hint of renewable income with repair abilitiesand this tree would arguably kill that), and fill another tree with nothing but +droid levels. Why do you need those 2 extra trees?
The funny part is this all started as a sugestion for adding the repair tree tothe DE trees and desided why not just make a DC propsal with this in it. Thats why its thefirst one .. but yes the abilitys tree was a "space taker" tree (im fleashing out a replacement tree) as for takeing away sales in my next draft i am going to give Evrey one kit A's and a the B's go to DE & DC but the C's and D's go to DC giveing ALLthe kits a market in the same way as doctors sell B's to novice medics
(2) Developers just nerfed CH because most of the + pet level modifiers were concentrated in one tree of the CH profession, and people were picking up only that tree... That is almost exactly what this proposal proposes, and I think the exact same thing will happen here. If people want powerful puts, the devs want the + pet levels to be evenly distributed over all boxes for the skill points spent.
I think you and others are 100%right on this one right fixing this in the next pass
(3) I think the droid offense and defense abilities arequestionable ideas... Why? Because DEs should be compensated for creating good droids for people to use...A person should not be able to get around quality by buyingany random quality of droid and having it act like a high-quality droid because the DC can buff it and gets defensive and offensive bonuses.
ya this was the tree I spent the least time thinking about theres no down side to geting these abilitys
(4) You have 3 +1's to called droids. That is 4 combat droids total. Since beta, devs have limited everyone to 3 or less pets. 4 is probably not an option.
This i did not know i talked closely with a CH and studied thetress a bitand this was never brought up thank you
Just my 2cr...
Message Edited by Daker-Naritus on 04-06-2004 03:50 PM
Im starting to lean more toward a two tree proposal as well. Mainly because the complexities with level and taming types that CHs deal with are based on a large creature base, we dont have a large droid base. Therefore, trying to spread too little content over 4 trees might be complicated and thin, but I still think it is a good start. The nice thing about a 2 tree profession is it will allow you to master DE, master DC, and then maybe have room left over for merchant, or one of the combat skills. I like the ideas of giving the DC the ability to optimize their droid with supercharging it or overloading it because people can abuse their machines all they want if they are willing to pay the cost. But I think that DEs should determine to a great extent how the droid will primarily operate in combat. For instance DEs could craft combat modules that are range or melee specific, maybe even long or short range, incorporate specials such as an area attack, counterattack, or defense mods. Some of this could be left up to the DC because DEs know droids best but a DC would probably know how they work in combat better. DEs should also be able to customize armor configurations so you can get the kind of resists you want at an acceptable AR.
I hate to see DC implemented especially if it is a cookie cutter profession of CH, but I'm starting to think that making it like CH is a reality and probably the most expedient route simply because CH is already live. Regardless of whatever bugs CH might have the profession seems to be working ok and that is the model they would most likely adopt. Droids for the most part already work like pets anyway.
Prin
DiLune wrote:
With a four tree profession you'd be safe shooting for CL70 droids (in the way a CH has a total of 70 pet levels to play with.)
One thing I thought would be interesting about a DC would be the ability to "jam" droids owned by someone else. Make them stop attacking for a short time, wander aimlessly, etc. Then opposing DCs could alternate between controlling their droids, trying to jam enemy droids, and trying to prevent jams of their own. Definitely not a metallic CH.
That is probably the most original idea ive heard in a long time.
I think we need to widen that line of thinking. Can anyone think of Non-Droid targets that can be jammed? Without stepping on Smugglers abilities?
Maybe add a piece to the base shutdown process?
Droids to be used as electronic chaff to turrets while attacking?
How about intercepting vulnerability times?
Good replies babyblue...you take constructive criticism very well
OK Heres V 1.1 this one needs feed back any where you see this color... so please post any ideas you have thanks
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=58334Version 1.1 THIS ONE
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=57703 Version 1.0 OLD ONE
Droid battery should it be moved to novice DE so we can sell them to DC’s?
Novice Droid Commander
+1 Droids Called (max of +4)
+1 Droids Stored (max of +6)
+12 Droid Levels (max of +70) (Changed to be more in line with CH & changed dispersal patterns)
5000 – 7500 Combat XP (not sure of the proper amount)
Requires Marksman: Master Ranged Support Abilities & Artisan: Engineering IV (58 Skill points)
REPAIR TREE (This one is still in the air as not many like it but if I change it I need more input on what it can become)
I have a feeling this will be the hardest one the accept but it’s a idea
Droid repair kits & reconstruction kits get a new tag: “Droid Repair Skill” this would be set as follows
A’s = 0 … B’s = 10 … C’s = 35 … D’s = 60 … Droid reinforcement pack’s = 85
Any one can use kit A’s but Novice DE’s get a +10 and can heal droids with repair & reconstruction kits B’s this allows DE’s to heal and still have a viable product in all the repair kits A’s B’s C’s, And D’s (much in the way doctors sell stim B's to novice medics) Does this help calm you fear on sales should & should the rebuild kits Be DE only?
This also adds content to the DC profession as well as a way for DC’s to buff the droid they use giving the tree more reason to be mastered
Droid Repair I: Maintenance
+2 Droid Levels
Droid Repair +25
Repair Speed +10%
(Allows DC to use Repair & rebuild kits type B)
1000 Droid Repair XP
(This is also added to Novice DE & The repair modules in droids work as before)
Droid Repair II: Systems Overhaul
+2 Droid Levels
Droid Repair +25
Repair Speed +10%
(Allows DC to use Repair & rebuild kits type C)
5000 Droid Repair XP
Droid Repair III: Reconstruction
+3 Droid Levels
Droid Repair +25
Repair Speed +10%
(Allows DC to use Repair & rebuild kits type D)
10000 Droid Repair XP
Droid Repair IV: Systems Modification (Droid Technician)
+5 Droid Levels
Droid Repair +25
Repair Speed +10%
(Allows DC to Add Droid Shielding &/or HAM Modification)
20000 Droid Repair XP
I got nofeedback on this one. Did you like the buffing idea? RemeberCL10pets can nowbe buffed with pet only +1000 - +2000 ham foods now made by chefs
Allows droid to be equipped with shielding or allows the droid to be buffed for a short time
The SPG’s that are made by armor smiths could be used for this or DE’s could make a “reinforcement Kit” for buffing or both (this would be for the Devs to decide when balancing)
Tactics Tree (Needs Reworking)
AntiDroid (simler to the antisniper tree in riflman)sounds good and was growing support so lets go that way.
This tree would be AntiDroid things like PC Viruses (action poisons) and Signal Jamming (delay or stun) or any thing you can think of but remember these need to have a down side just as bigas the bonus, like minuses to the DC’s HAM pools
So start throwing ideas out there.
Here are some from me and some friends
EMP Weapon: UP SIDE = this could be a new form of heavy weapon that has droid effecting specials DOWN SIDE = might give to much to the profession (maybe lower the total levels to balance?)
EMP grenades: UP SIDE = Ezer to balance DOWN SIDE = to balance and not take from the total levels it would not do much damage
Systems Jamming Device UP SIDE = would be used to delay droids could be used on every thing from AT-ST to Turrets would give the DC a nice roll in the GCW. DOWN SIDE = give it a timer aside from that it needs to be high in the tree maybe master tactics
PC Virus UP SIDE = this would be a action or mind poison for droids only DOWN SIDE = should havea 1 – 4 min timer
Droid Reprogramming UP SIDE = like that nice droid you see well just reprogram it DOWN SIDE = is it to much like CH tame?
Droid Traps UP SIDE = could work like ranger traps but for droids only DOWN SIDE = crafted + timed between uses
AntiDroid Tactics I: (Needs Title)
+2 Droid Level
15000 Droid Commander XP
AntiDroid Tactics II: (Needs Title)
+2 Droid Level
30000 Droid Commander XP
AntiDroid Tactics III: (Needs Title)
+3 Droid Level
75000 Droid Commander XP
AntiDroid Tactics IV: (Needs Title) (Needs Tree Master Title)
+5 Droid Level
150000 Droid Commander XP
Programming Tree
This tree would add new droid commands and has plus’s to droid levels for balance each command would have a reuse timer of 30 – 60 seconds min
Droid Programming I: Simple Coding
+2 Droid Level
Droid command - Droid Swarm (This would increase the speed of droids attacks for 15 seconds at the cost of the DC’s mind pool)
15000 Droid Commander XP
Droid Programming II: Advanced Algorithms
+2 Droid Level
Droid command – Evasive Action (This would increase the defensive and armor bonuses of the droids for 30 seconds at the cost of the DC’s Action pool it would work in just the opposite of intimidate)
30000 Droid Commander XP
Droid Programming III: Fuzzy Logic
+3 Droid Level
Droid command – Supercharge (This would make the Droids attacks more damaging for 30 seconds at the cost of 40% battery power, if the droids don’t have enough power the command fails)
75000 Droid Commander XP
Droid Programming IV: Neural Computing (Programmer)
+5 Droid Level
Droid command – Overload (This would cause the droid to over load its circuits doing a high damage area attack this would then incapacitate the droid and would thus be a last ditch type attack)
150000 Droid Commander XP
Control Tree
This is a strait forward tree it gives to the stored and called droids with out tipping the scale for dabblers and gives plus’s to all called and stored droid
Pulled out one of the +1 droid called to bring it in line with CH
Intermediate Droid Control
+2 Droid Levels
+1 Droids Stored
15000 Droid Commander XP
Advanced Droid Control
+2 Droid Levels
+1 Droids Stored
30000 Droid Commander XP
Expert Droid Control
+1 Droids Called
+3 Droid Levels
+1 Droids Stored
75000 Droid Commander XP
Master Droid Control (Controller)
+5 Droid Levels
+1 Droids Stored
150000 Droid Commander XP
Master Droid Commander
+1 Droids Stored
+10 Droid Levels
+1 Droids Stored
my consern is that this is not enoff insentive to master the Profession what do you think ?
there you have it V 1.1
Message Edited by babyblue_d on 04-07-2004 03:01 AM