Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: Am I, the Only One, that still Wants Combat Droids ?

DarthIguana
Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:52 am
#14

I don't want to see combat droids REALLY added to the game until the devs straighten out the crafting problems that DEs have. With resource quality's effect on the final product not mattering one bit, each DE's product is identicle to any other DE product. Also, a lot of their droid models have had problems since launch: Repair droids don't repair other droids but my R-3 can. Unless I want R-3 to repair one of my other droids because he can't do that. What's that about? Power droids can also power other droids, just not mine. Protocol droids don't do anything protocol related (i.e. translate). There are some basic and obvious things that need fixing in the profession before the devs muddy things farther with combat droids. Also, the DH profession thing just sounds lame. There has to be a better way of doing higher level combat droids. How about a cert system that allows you to use a combat droid in lieu of your sidearm? I agree that powerful combat droids shouldn't just be handed out to everyone for the sake of ballance, but there has to be a better answer than that...

chris



~ Liavuss Mekka of Chilastra ~
DarthIguana
Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:00 am
#15

"'I don't want to see combat droids REALLY added to the game until the devs straighten out the crafting problems that DEs have.'

I can understand this feeling. And there are certainly some things other than combat droids that are as important. But I think this way of thinking cionfuses things. We want bug fixes and basic functionality. That we have not had. But it will not help to confuse a concern, for these fixes, with a lack of concern for combat droids."

Boeda,

There's no confusion on my part about the two concepts we're discussion, combat droids and bug fixes, I just find it very hard to seperate the two issues. I've read many of the other profession forums and have seen the repeated pattern with developer attention. They'll do one big pass to revamp a profession, tweak it here and there, then move on to the next profession. This observation is NOt a criticism of the developers, they have a finite amount of time and resources to devote to a particular are. If they linger too long, then other profession get up in arms and they have a responsability to try and keep everyone reasonably happy. My concern is that adding combat droids prior to the fixes will only exasperate the existing issues with the profession and the fundamentals will not be addressed properly. There are so many thigns about DEing that have needed to be addressed for so long that part of me is astounded that they would even consider adding to the profession. I'd love to see combat droids in the game (if properly implimented) but if it oesn't happen for a year because they have only so much time to work with DEs, then so be it as long as the fundamental problems are addressed. There are plenty of ways to kill things in this game, delaying one more isn't putting anyone out of business, but correcting the problems with droids and clarifying their usefullness (maybe adding some more utility to them) would create a ton of business for DEs.

Now that I've written all of that, did I misunderstand you?

Chris



~ Liavuss Mekka of Chilastra ~
Boeda
Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:58 pm
#16

>I just find it very hard to seperate the two issues.<

I conceed, that they do share a limited pool of effort. Im afraid tobecome reconciled to the idea we cant have both.(sooner)


>My concern is that adding combat droids prior to the fixes will only exasperate the existing issues <

Well, as much asI want alot of fixes. I personally would rather wait for most of them, while I have combat droids to expand my game play options with. But this is a personal preferance not somthing I am arguing here. I know the other preference is as valid. (which we want first, which we want to wait for) And part of my feeling is that we will have many fixesanyway. I respect your points there.


What worries me though. Is that the developers, are getting the impression that when we say 'Don't throw broken cobat droids at us !, Fix the Bugs!' that we mean ~' we dont want combat droids. We want utility droids !' That is the impression I get from what I remeber of the developer posts.


(Memory is not my best thing. So I research,,,) For example from ID #3: Droid Invasion thread:






"LOL! Its a tough issue, but its important. Bottom line, the devs hear that you want more utility and less combat. We'll see what happens." - Thunderheart 01-29-2004 02:52 PM


"I've counted it up, I've seen the pattern and its clear that the community wants utility droids and not combat droids.


Im getting ready to go into a meeting and this is what I will tell them." - Thunderheart 01-29-2004 02:49 PM






The result


"In the next two publishes, after crackdown, we are focusing specifically on Droids. We plan on implementing combat droids (< level 10) in P7, and Utility Droids in P8." - JustG






It does NOT, sound like combat droids are comming in patch 9 'Son of Droid Invasion'.


So, im concerned. you see why ? I feel the need to find the truth. (I assume the majority actually want combat droids) { But, if I find most players Dont care. I'll shut up and save time } And to enlighten, the developers. Hence this thread.


I think we need to make it clear we care about Combat Droids (over lev 10 even. (Somewhere, Lev 30-60 or so if i must be specific. Subject to tweeking up or down))


"the art and animation for the combat droids is done." - Thunderheart 01-30-2004 08:31 AM


So it wont even take that much time out of other things. They largly had it done before the whole 'No DH' thing. They just need to know we care.




- - -

There are No Steeenking 'Checkers' in crafting skillpoints !




Improved !!! Revised,"Alternate" New Combined DC/DE Hybrid Answer

Ockale_MDE
Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:10 am
#17


To combat, or not to combat, that is the question.



Personally I couldn't give a rat's patootie if we get Combat Droids or not. ALL I want is to get Droids with functions that appeal to a very broad range of players. If they're combat droids, great. If they're useful utility droids, that's fine too. Just give me something to sell that will have a broad market. Don't limit me todealing withone class for the bulk of my sales. So many of you folks are tied down into this "It's got to be a combat Droid or no one will want it" mentality. It doesn't have to be that way.






Ockale Akdan
Master Droid Engineer
Master Artisan
KoRTech Industries
(Tarquinas)
BoberFett
Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:47 am
#18






StarRider99 wrote:

TOTALLY disagree with this post - how can flesh and bome ever compete with micro-fusion reactors and weapons that pump out gigawatts of power. I'm sorry but I like a LITTLE science with my science fiction. There was never a creature in the SW universe that couldnt be taken down by more than a couple of pistol shots, never mind high powered or crew served weaponry.

Its quite simple - the weapons of sentient beings capable of controlling the laws of physics can and should out-gun any natural critter. Some of the largest SW critters seen were simply beasts of burden for shield generators. *shakes head* There are other ways to take care of the CHs - limiting Droid functionality in certain terain types might be one of them for example.

I believe, however, that fighting machines (or their crew-served counterparts...true 'tanks') should always be superior to creatures. Teeth and claws cant and wont penetrate armor on anything but the lightest vehicle. PLEASE!!! Some science with the fiction and not just a totally artificial and unrealistic approach to the game!!!


Everette Fireborn

Master DE, Tarq.





Not really.


Have you ever fought a dog before? I have. It wasn't even all that big. About 100lbs. My girlfriend got between our two dogs and one of them, a pit bull/great dane mix,was chewing on her arm. I was beating the living @#$% out of it. I'm not a small guy, 6', 200lbs, fairlyathletic build, and I was hitting this dog in the chest and head. It all but ignored me. It wasn't until I got an arm around it's neck and started choking the hell out of it that it let go. You'd be surprised how tough a large, muscular animal is.


Now look at some of those CH pets. I bet those big cats could do some serious damage. Even if their claws don't go through armor, you better believe you're going to be knocked to the ground and mauled to death. Heck, look what that tiger did to Roy.


As for droids, I always got the feeling throughout all the SW movies was that droids were rather fragile. Even the combat droids, once you got through their shields they seemed to go down rather quickly. But that was just my impression.
Boeda
Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:19 pm
#19

>Have you ever fought a dog before? <


You, ever see your dog chewing on a lawn mower ?


And if a lawn mower was chewing on your dog, who would win ?


Or a Car? Now what about an actual combat droid ?



Its hard to be 'real' in a MMOLRPG. Healing up from near death, During Combat, strikes me as one of the hard things to believe. There are many I presume. I dont look very hard for them. I expect them. And, accept them. To me combat machinery tends to be more powerfull, than biological cratures. But this is 'SW' So if pressed I can maby imagine alien biologies that could be much stronger than the cute jelly like stuff we get on Earth.


But,, I do not expect them to be too likely to be more powerfull than mechanical things. But whatever.


Most importantly, there is no reason to assume that droids must allways be weaker than creatures.





- - -

There are No Steeenking 'Checkers' in crafting skillpoints !




Improved !!! Revised,"Alternate" New Combined DC/DE Hybrid Answer

Boeda
Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:26 pm
#20


>Combat droids in the SW universe were not built like lawn mowers. They were mostly bipedal and probably shared the weaknesses of bipedal creatures. A car can't be pushed over because it's on four wheels and quite heavy. A heavy combat droid just needs to be given a bit of a push and it's lying on its back.<



So you think in the SWG 'era' of faster than light hyper drive, and grav lev vehicles. Death star planet cracking beams.


That they cant build combat droids as good as old Earth lawmowers (or atomic age tanks) ?


Or that they just build them that way on purpose so they can use large cats to push them over when nessissary ?


Message Edited by Boeda on 02-18-2004 03:57 PM



- - -

There are No Steeenking 'Checkers' in crafting skillpoints !




Improved !!! Revised,"Alternate" New Combined DC/DE Hybrid Answer

Lochar
Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:03 pm
#21

I am content to wait for a DH type profession if it means doing a new class and not a CH clone.



I always wanted variety of combat droids other than the probot, but didnt want a whole class for it.



Plus I always thought utility droids would have purposes other than crafting stations which publish 8 is attempting. I still like to see more work done on them tho as far as making each droid have its use, so that we see a variety of them in use. Right now the BLL only sells for novelty but it has no merits over another and the surgical droid gets more sales for a chassis than an actual med droid since a r2 can do the same thing.


BoberFett
Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:23 pm
#22

Do you really want to get hypothetical sci-fi situations here?


Let's see, maybe:


OK, you're right, combat droids should be able to kill anything the moves. In fact, not only should pets be weaker than combat droids, but characters should be too. I mean, it took a couple Jedi to take down the droideka in Ep1. There should be no basic combat class in the game that can stand up toa droideka. Any player that controls a droideka wins against any other combat class.


Or how about:


If the Emperor knew of the kind of blatant rebellion going on around Tatooine right now, he wouldn't send Stormtroopers. He'd destroy the planet with a fleet of star destroyers. Your wonderful combat droids are about to get nuked from space. Enjoy.


So how far do you want to take your silly hypotheticals?
Boeda
Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:33 pm
#23


>So how far do you want to take your silly hypotheticals?<


I dont want to take my silly hypotheticals anywhere. I just wanted to point out your even sillyer.


But I do see your point. One cant say Droids, or Creatures must be stronger based on 'real life'. And even if there are clear issues, It should not rule over fun or balance issues, in a game.





- - -

There are No Steeenking 'Checkers' in crafting skillpoints !




Improved !!! Revised,"Alternate" New Combined DC/DE Hybrid Answer

BoberFett
Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:09 am
#24

Good, then we finally agree to disagree.
BoberFett
Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:38 am
#25






Boeda wrote:

You, ever see your dog chewing on a lawn mower ?


And if a lawn mower was chewing on your dog, who would win ?


Or a Car? Now what about an actual combat droid ?







Combat droids in the SW universe were not built like lawn mowers. They were mostly bipedal and probably shared the weaknesses of bipedal creatures. A car can't be pushed over because it's on four wheels and quite heavy. A heavy combat droid just needs to be given a bit of a push and it's lying on its back. I think a 2000lb cat could probably knock over even a few hundred pound bipedal droid quite easily.


You're right, games can't be compared to real life. But then people need to quit trying to bring real life into when it suits them and they cry about it when others do the same.
Recsa
Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:14 am
#26

No, you are not the only one, every time i read the post with the incoming changes im more sure those changes are just a very little difference, most of them will be a mess that will be nerfed (ad barking) others are useless for 99% of the players base (entertainer mods) and the rest are just a pieces of bread.


But now DEs are happy cos they finally have Devs attention .... they are giving you almost nothing guys, come on this is SW you should be able to build Droidekas and a lot more models of combat droids that every1 should be able to use, its up to devs to think on ways to balance it, but they are sooo busy ... id like to know how many devs are right now working on SWG (no space expansion). Why they need to go for the easy quick solution??? usually the easy solutions are not the good ones.



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