Droid Engineer Archive

If you have 50 million credits laying around, then you have every right to use them any way you see fit. That includes giving it away to others. The game needs more money sinks, not less. Maintenance on droids would be a great money sink.

Again, the economy and availability of energy should be dictating who can use what droids. Nothing more.They require no skill to 'use' since they 'use' themselves. They have their own brains. There is nothing wrong with a newbie who is a friend of someone rich having a nice powerful combat droid. It will act as a money sink for the rich friend, give him something on which to spend his hard earned cash, and help keep him playing the game.

As for the newbie, a powerful combat droid in the hands of the newbie would be no different than one in the hands of the rich friend. It would not increase the rate of XP acquisition since the newbie woudl be doing very ltitle damage to anything himself. It would not change the balance of PvP since the newbie and the rich friend would be interchangable. Either one of them could accomplish the same thing with that droid.

-Raystonn

Sorry for this: If anyone thinks that I am pro Droid Handler, I am really sorry if I come off that way. I in no way want a mundane DH class. So lets not cross these issues, as I feel any skills a DH would have, a DE would be infinitely better at performingDroid related tasks.

true sin but there is one fact you are missing: in real life you would not need a certification to tell a droid what to do, hell, this isnt a freaking job or whatever... true a newb having a good item is a problem but if it happens it happens period *shrug* thats life..... luke didnt say geez r2d2 i cant have you around becuase i dont have a certification, heck, if he did, he wouldt still have one high enough for c3p0, a protocol droid that knew alot of lanuages....

point? this game needs to stay realistic, certification on guns i under stand, in real life you can have any average joe walk up and operate a m60 machine gun like its easy, it took practice and in some aspects a "real" certification to operate it.

case and point. it doesnt take a rocket scientist to say "go", "come" to a computer with wheels. especially when they have brains.

one more thing i want to add...

if they work on making lower end droids a bit more useful, we wouldnt have to grind so hard. i mean... commonei dont see many mouses going around... *shrug*

/flamer on

"*Sigh* Do you play the game?"

There's no reason for the attitude here.

"Now weapons with Brains and more potential power shouldn't be restricted?"

Precisely.

"Please show me a S.I.R store where I can purchase aSmart Bomb. Although we dont have Droids in real life, there would be a system in place to prevent overuse of misuse for theseRobot Weapons."

You couldn't afford one. Otherwise you'd have one if you really wanted one. Russia is selling them. Though the current definition of 'smart' is nothing near that of a droid in Star Wars.

"To say they require no skill to use is true... But they take skill to use PROPERLY and RESPONSIBLY."

That implies there is one proper way to use a droid. I would disagree. You are limited by your imagination. What you seem to be suggesting would be more akin to a course on battle tactics. Thusfar, tactics have been left up to the player and have not been made a part of the skill trees.

"1) If you were to supply said Novice a Droid of Death... He'd already have an end game item. Whats the real point in advancing?"

If he can afford the market price for a top of the line combat droid, then he can purchase one from me. He will also need to be able to afford the constant maintenance of power. There is nothing wrong with people having what they want if they can afford to purchase them.

As far as the "point of advancing", why must there be one? You seem to want Everquest in Space, with a constant supply of carrots dangled in front of you to keep you grinding forever. SWG is not about grinding out experience for skills. It's about living in the Star Wars Universe.Those who complain about a lack of content are playing the wrong game. You are the content.

"2) If the Droid Engineer Trees were re-worked, we could have Novice Droid Engineers provide these said Novice Combat Droids to Novice Characters. Does that sound all too bad? It defeats the necessay "Grind" by allowing all stages in the Profession to have a viable market. Without a Certification in place, there would be no reason to have 1 more type of Combat Droids... As everyone would want only one... The Strongest One."

This simply is not true. The more powerful the droid, the more maintenance it would require to keep. Do you see everyone with heavy harvesters? No, because they are very expensive and have higher maintenance costs. Your logic would dictate that everyone would only want the best harvester, and that we wouldn't see many (or any) personal or medium harvesters. I see far more personal and medium harvesters. Is it because you ened certifications to use the heavy harvesters? Not at all. It's a simple matter of economics.

-Raystonn

EnosFiroken: *sigh* We (at least me)aren't talking about Utility Droids.... We (at least me)are talking aboutCOMBAT DROIDS. COMBAT DROIDS. I've always said Utility Droids are for everyone,unless they are class specific,as they should be.

"didnt say geez r2d2 i cant have you around becuase i dont have a certification"

Of course not, as an R2 Unit is a Utility Droid.

"he wouldt still have one high enough for c3p0, a protocol droid that knew alot of lanuages...."

People need to understand the difference between Utility Droids and Combat Droids.Utility vs. Combat.

"case and point. it doesnt take a rocket scientist to say "go", "come" to a computer with wheels. especially when they have brains."

No kidding... Really, but because it is the internet, andthe society on itsodiverse.Limitations have to be placed to sustain Stability. As you can't force people to be responsible/smart/caring in game. A different method to simulate that in the game can be used. Whichcan be a Certification for Combat Droids as they are in the end weapons.

Raystonn: Sorry about the attitude, you must feel the same way when others fail to seeyour point fully.

You couldn't afford one. Otherwise you'd have one if you really wanted one. Russia is selling them. Though the current definition of 'smart' is nothing near that of a droid in Star Wars.

Quit avoiding the problemby criticizing the analogy please. Understand what the analogy represents and not it's literal saying.

"That implies there is one proper way to use a droid. I would disagree. You are limited by your imagination. What you seem to be suggesting would be more akin to a course on battle tactics. Thusfar, tactics have been left up to the player and have not been made a part of the skill trees."

Ok then why am I limited only the proper use of a CDEF weapon at the beginning? With your thinking, I should be able to use a DX2, or T21 right off the bat without consequences.IfI can afford to right? Whats the incentive to make lower weapons? Or the incentive to advance to earn those qualifications? Or to make those Classesunique because of the qualifications?Should we limit WeaponSmiths only to make 1 type of weapon for everyone? So everyone runs around with a DX2 or T21? The weapons used are Examples. How can you avoid that necessary "Grind"? Look at ArmourSmiths, at each Skill level for one Tree, they earn the ability to make adifferent suit of armour. Better? Not really, it's Different, the armour being more effective in another feild, for the most part. Having a market for each armour.

By me saying it takes Skill to use Properly and Responsibly isn't limited to the game, but being responsible to use things properly cannot be integrated into the game, there are too many idiots running around to begin with. Thus a system must be integrated to give PURPOSE and simulation to the Whole-Profession and the need for other types by means of concrete limitation.

"As far as the "point of advancing", why must there be one? You seem to want Everquest in Space, with a constant supply of carrots dangled in front of you to keep you grinding forever. SWG is not about grinding out experience for skills. It's about living in the Star Wars Universe.Those who complain about a lack of content are playing the wrong game. You are the content."

Heh, I havn't played Everquest so sorry for the ideas I pull out of the logic I use.This is my first MMORPG.I thought MMORPG's were supposed to be a long term enjoyable thing. Guess I'm wrong. =/ Can you tell me what an MMORPG is supposed to be? Can you tell me of a Game that allows me to live in the Star Wars Universe? SWG hardly seems to be doing that.

Me being the content? Im not content with that. To say that the developers aren't there to provide a GAME to play is sad. Why make expansions? Why provide updates instead of just bug fixes? Why make a Game if it's not there to entertain? Why buy a game to not be entertained? I can accept the fact that I may have to create SOME content for myself but, not all. The game should provide a basis for what content I can create. If I was that little novice fightingto understand and gain the ability to use a higher form of a Combat Droid, I can create content within that to boost the feeling. I see now that people are content with content beingto only earn money to do such things and Powergame.

Comparing Harvesters and Combat Droids are on two different levels, not totally though... We have PassiveHarvesters which can help the majority but doesn't have to be used by everyone.They can, but serves no real benefit as to what Crafters already have going for them. Crafters need to depend on Harvesters to provide their customers with items. Then customers in turn buy those products the crafters make. Essentially that there is a Certification System. With a Certification system underneath it to limit the use of certain wares the customer can use.Being class based.

Why can't Combat Droids or Droid Engineers be part of that system? Do you really want to see Droid Engineers at the bottom of the tree forever? Forcing everyoneto become aMaster Droid Engineer to makesomething worth while?I've seen themat the bottom for long enough.Being forced to grind to be able to make a profit because Master Droid Engineers make that Droid of Death for500 Credits (example)for everyone.Again, if we are able to give anyone in the game that Combat Droid, why even have the Profession,more thanone skill boxor add various Combat Droids? With the current tree and current system... Why buy a Mouse Droid with a Level 1 Medical Module when you can get a Mouse Droid with a Level 6 Medical Module from a Master DE for the same amount of money or less? If you are a Droid Engineer, did you really enjoy that forced grind? Having Certifications with the idea I have given could serve this purpose to lessen this grind... Unless you are all masochist? I want to see a justification to the Novice Droid Engineer to exist. And not being a chore for those who want to be a Master DE.

"Do you see everyone with heavy harvesters? No, because they are very expensive and have higher maintenance costs. Your logic would dictate that everyone would only want the best harvester, and that we wouldn't see many (or any) personal or medium harvesters."

Read what you wrote with that great eye for detail you posess.Does everyonewant the best Harvester? Probably.But because of they cant afford one, they cant use it... What is that system again? But we're talking about a Fighting Entity here, not some passive resource collector.

Providing Harvesters which are passive and work on thesupporting sideof the game should be the basis on what Combat Droids should build on. Combat Droids couldbe one of many active aspects of the game. Because EVERYONE can use them and benefit from them. There has to be an additionalsystem to control that. To give Purpose.

EnosFiroken: "why are you still argueing lol?"

Sorry am I not allowed to do that? What am I doing on a Message Board... My points havn't really been shot down.

"certification wont really organize anything lol"

Will not having one will organize it? I'm sorry can you expand and give me benefits to that ideal? This one sided Debate can not be a Debate with only one side bringing their points to the table. Maybe you (someone) can do something Raystonn can't.

I've yet to see a true post explanation onwhy a No Certification system is greater thena Certification System. You may not be able to change your view on the subject, maybe I can. With some proper points and less of one party disecting the only person who brings validity to the argument. I've offered my views on why a Cert System is greater only to be disected and mauled by no backs. Waiting for a true debate...

Sinistral is 100% correct guys.

His example of abuse is exactly why the probot was nerfed and we currently don't have very usefull/powerful droids.

There is not a snowball's chance in Hell that SOE will not implement a system that will still allow newbies to access high level/powerful droids - they will not implement a system which can easily be bypassed or exploited. They will implement a system where the ability to use a high level droid is restricted by your experience (either in an existing class, or another new class) - there will be no getting around this.

I think it's wonderful that you guys came up with an interesting idea about powering droids, and I totally agree that a cert system or new class goes totally against SW movie and expanded universe fictional "reality". But we all know that SOE doesn't really care how close droids match that reality (datapad anyone?).

The sad truth is guys that Sinistral is right in how even the off-chance that someone could cheat is enough of a reason for SOE not to implement something.

What's really sad is that there are a LOT of dishonest players who take advantage of the game to make either their characters uber or richer, or make themselves richer in the real world by selling their accounts (chars) or their credits online. Check out ebay - do a search for SWG. Heck there is even a guy selling an unofficial guide on exploits and how to use them to make uber characters and get rich! That's the reality that SOE has to deal with, and they have a right to try and stop it. And to be honest I think that many of us who play fair will be glad to have exploiters and powergamers shut down by SOE as much as possible.

Just my 2cr.

Sinistral, this is my response to your arguement (completely copied and pasted from another thread in this forum, because it says everything that I want to say to rebut your arguement).

However, before I paste it, I must say, you are the only person who has given me any points to actually be able to accept a certain form of cert system for Droids.

I, however, am still against cert systems, so here's my arguement, and at the end, I'll add a couple other points that I have:

"Certifications for droids in any sense of the word is complete and utter b.s.

Someone who power plays to get money to buy a high end droid on their first day? Why not? Should someone be punished if they power played their way to an elite skill on the first day? No they shouldn't (and trust me, it is possible, head to Endor with the right group, and you can get to Novice Creature Handler in a day).

The fact of the matter is this: If a newbie wants to spend all of his time getting money to get himself a Droideka on day 1 (example, because Droidekas are talked about as tho they will be our uber-droid), then that's his choice. Guess what? He just spent that time making money to buy a droid, instead of leveling up his character.

If you don't want newbies getting and supporting high end combat droids, certifications are not the answer. The answer is, what someone else posted (I am sorry, I can't remember his name) about powering the droid. Make the high end combat droids require an advanced droid battery, that takes a lot more resources to make (and I'm not talking just an increase from now, I'm talking a large increase, not sure of specific numbers because I don't know the schematic for the regular battery off hand), which will result in Droid Engineers -not- wanting to give these away forfree because of the amount of money in resources that would be spent,and the high end combat droid will require multiples of these advanced batteries at a time to support them (Think of how a CD boombox system takes more powerful batteries, and more batteries period, as a portable CD player).

This pushes for having a regular cash flow to support these batteries, which calls for a higher level class generally speaking, which will deter week 1 newbies from trying to uber themselves with these very high end droids, but not regulate who can and cannot use these droids (which are an item that anyone should be able to use), and allow so that if someone is willing to put in the time and effort to get the resources to support this kinda thing, that they deserve to be able to have it, even if they are day 1 newbies.

Quite honestly, droid certifications is the worst idea I have ever heard regarding Droid Engineering, and this game in general."

And my closing arguements:
The harvestors arguement is actually a very valid one. Yes, a droid is essentially a weapon that has a PvP / PvE aspect, but it is still not a gun that takes training to use. A weapons cert system is in place because a weapon needs training to use. Droids are essentially computers, and don't need training to use.

Also, there is no cert system in for armor. Armor can essentially have PvP / PvE aspects to it, but there is no cert system for armor. Therefore, anybody can get armor at day 1. I have a friend who has, some high level armor, can't remember which type tho. He restarted his character because he was a Wookiee that couldn't use armor. Restarted and immediatley had this high level armor. And there is no uprising about that, because, I don't know how he got it, but if he had the means to get it, then why not? Same is in place for houses. I can grind and grind and grind to get myself the money to buy myself a large house right off the bat. Should that be restricted also? I do not think that droids need a certification system, and the lack of a certification system will -not- mean that all people will go to the Droideka. With DZ70 and Probot stats upped to where they should be so that they are effective, people will buy those just to have something, if they don't have a lot of money to spend on a Droideka. Same goes with harvestors, houses, armor, and even weapons. The highest level weapon I have bought is the rifle right about CDEF (DL77 or something like that, I think). Why? I have the certs for higher level weapons. I have the exp for novicerifleman (havene't trained), so I can essentially have a cert for a T21. But I don't have one. Why? Because I simply don't have the money for it. I am going to be SCREWED when I get higher up in Droid Engineering, because I don't have the money to supporta factory, and from what I know, factory made components are required later on, no longer able to make the components by hand. I don't have the money for anything more than personal harvestors, and I have only recently finally been able to get about 5 going (plus a power harvestor), and I have been playing for QUITE some time, essentially since the game went live (take about a week or so).

So my point is, you can make it so that everyone can have a droideka if they spend the money, but not everyone WILL have a droideka, because not everyone will have the money to support it, ESPECIALLY if my droid battery idea is put into effect (the idea that I got after reading that guy's post, I'm sorry, you even posted in this thread and I can't remember your name =[), or something like it.

And now that I have rambled on forever, and am still awake an hour and a quarter after I meant to go to bed, I will end here. I think I've made my point, whether I've convinced anyone or not, I think my point has been made.

And no, despite any hostile language in my copied and pasted post, or in this post in general, this is far from a flame, just heated arguement =]

Thanks for the thought out reply Nell.

"Someone who power plays to get money to buy a high end droid on their first day? Why not? Should someone be punished if they power played their way to an elite skill on the first day? No they shouldn't (and trust me, it is possible, head to Endor with the right group, and you can get to Novice Creature Handler in a day)."

If a Novice Newly Created Character power played or grouped, got to a NovicePistoleer/Creature Hanlder, etc.or even got Master of a Novice Profession (Master Artisan, Brawler, etc.)then yes, they still powerplay and earned skills, if any type of certification system was to be implemented, they would additionally unlockhigher forms ofCombat Droids. So no, there reallywould not a punishment. The punishment is in place who would abuse the system if No Certification System was in place.

No onehas a problem with anyone WORKINGtheir goals. The Certification System that a few have created prevents the abuse of being able toobtain this Ultimate Droid of Death through a friend or PA mate. In the end, forcing people to earn the right to weild such power. If a Newbie want to powerplay because he wants a new better exciting Combat Droid, all the more enjoyment comes from the Droid Engineer who helps himwith his quest.

Now for the Battery Idea, whats the difference between getting this Droid of Death and a Lifetime supply of Batteries? Nothing changed except for an easily producedbattery being an extra chore then before the Pre-Nerf Probot days and with 4k HAM Non-CH Pets we have now. Basically, you are making people take an addition step around a pole to pass it when that Pole should be abarricade.

"Yes, a droid is essentially a weapon that has a PvP / PvE aspect, but it is still not a gun that takes training to use. A weapons cert system is in place because a weapon needs training to use. Droids are essentially computers, and don't need training to use."

See, I just dont understand this... A basic, manually controlled weapon used by a player is not as dangerous than awalking Robot ofDoom?The only differencebetweenaGun and a Droidis a pull of a finger and a voice command. You aim the gun vs.you tell where theDroid to aim. You choose an attack vs.you tell the Droid to attack. Now because of the variations of power with having many types of Combat Droids, being able to usemore powerfulDroids need a prerequisite of becoming more skilled yourself.Just like the Certification System used for guns. If you dont want to call it a Certification system... How about calling it a License system?

Computer usage doesn't need any training to use? It isn't in the genes, I will tell you that much. That's just the logic I am using.

"Also, there is no cert system in for armor. Armor can essentially have PvP / PvE aspects to it, but there is no cert system for armor. Therefore, anybody can get armor at day 1."

I never said there was a Certification for Armour.I was comparing giving Droid Engineers a similar executedTree to ArmourSmiths for creating different types of Combat Droids. Every armour has a specialized characteristic, Bone has Energy resistance, Chittin -Kinetic. They both have viable markets. Now for Droid Engineers to adopt that idea, they can segregate Novice Combat Droids, from Intermediate Combat Droids, from Advanced Combat Droids, from Specialist Combat Droids.

Basically every Step up Skill in theone Combat Droid Tree for DE's would have a viable market if a nice Cert System was in place. Reducing that "Grind" I am sure no one likes. Producing a market and purpose for every type of Droid.

As for your friend not knowing that Wookiee's can't wear armour, well that's not a problem that can be placed on anyone else other then the one mistaken or the one who fails to mention the problem.

Once again, I am not opposed to people working for things in the game... But there has to be a Barricade with a gateto replace that Pole everyone takes an extra step to walk around. I like the idea for the batteries, as it can be another money sink along with more Powerful Combat Droids being able to be purchased as someone earns a new Certification level.

Bleh, I am not getting mad because of this thread... I enjoy a good Argument.It's just the turtle pace the Devs are taking to do ANY changes or even mention possibilities...

"Quit avoiding the problemby criticizing the analogy please. Understand what the analogy represents and not it's literal saying."

I criticize the analogy because your point has the same exact flaw.

"Ok then why am I limited only the proper use of a CDEF weapon at the beginning? With your thinking, I should be able to use a DX2, or T21 right off the bat without consequences.IfI can afford to right? Whats the incentive to make lower weapons?"

Lower grade weapons are cheaper and easier to obtain. However, they don't have brains. They don't "use" themselves. They require knowledge on the use of the weapon. That is what the certifications represent. Droids do not need expert knowledge on their use. Just talk to them and tell them what you want done. They will oblige.

"By me saying it takes Skill to use Properly and Responsibly isn't limited to the game, but being responsible to use things properly cannot be integrated into the game, there are too many idiots running around to begin with. Thus a system must be integrated to give PURPOSE and simulation to the Whole-Profession and the need for other types by means of concrete limitation."

No such system is required. You claim there are 'too many idiots' running around in the game. I fail to see why anyone would be labelled an idiot in SWG for using what is available to them. As far as giving "purpose and simulation to the Whole-Profession", this is entirely unneeded and, in fact, detrimental to the economy.Heavy harvesters don't need certifications to use, and you don't see every single person with 10 heavy harvesters. In fact, most people have personal and medium harvesters. This is an issue that was invented by those who do not have the foresight to see that advanced combat droids will require about as much work and resources to create as a heavy harvester. The economy is fully capable of ensuring everyone does not have all of the best items, without any help from artificial limitations. Just leave it alone and it works fine.

"Can you tell me what an MMORPG is supposed to be? Can you tell me of a Game that allows me to live in the Star Wars Universe? SWG hardly seems to be doing that."

That is the intent of this game. You are supposed to roleplay and live in the Star Wars universe. This is not a game for 'level treadmills' or 'skill treadmills'. Plenty of other games have that. It is intended that we, the players, create the content in SWG. This has been stated time and again by the developers. Do some searching on the forums.

"Comparing Harvesters and Combat Droids are on two different levels, not totally though... We have PassiveHarvesters which can help the majority but doesn't have to be used by everyone.They can, but serves no real benefit as to what Crafters already have going for them. Crafters need to depend on Harvesters to provide their customers with items. Then customers in turn buy those products the crafters make. Essentially that there is a Certification System. With a Certification system underneath it to limit the use of certain wares the customer can use.Being class based."

Sorry, but that isn't even close to a certification system. It's also not even close to what most resources are being used for. Most people currently use resources to grind through XP. They either harvest or purchase resources from the Bazaar. Very few resources actually go toward creating new items these days. The informal mining profession (selling harvested resources) is very lucrative. Yet, you see more personal harvesters than medium harvesters. There is most definately no certification system involved in this. The limiting factor is the economy.

"Why can't Combat Droids or Droid Engineers be part of that system? Do you really want to see Droid Engineers at the bottom of the tree forever? Forcing everyoneto become aMaster Droid Engineer to makesomething worth while?I've seen themat the bottom for long enough.Being forced to grind to be able to make a profit because Master Droid Engineers make that Droid of Death for500 Credits (example)for everyone."

This has nothing to do with a lack of certifications and everything to do with the fact that all of our droids are entirely worthless and have virtually the same functionality and efficiency, regardless of type and quality.

"Again, if we are able to give anyone in the game that Combat Droid, why even have the Profession,more thanone skill boxor add various Combat Droids?"

Do you see Architects handing out heavy harvester deeds to everyone? I didn't think so. Your argument is fatally flawed. You assume that all combat droids will be as trivial to make as current droids. You assume everyone can afford massive maintenance fees for the best combat droid. You assume the economy produces endless amounts of money, and that everyone will eventually be rich and have everything they want. All of these assumptions are incorrect. Therefore, your argument is incorrect.

"Does everyonewant the best Harvester? Probably.But because of they cant afford one, they cant use it..."

Sorry? Did you just say people use personal harvesters instead of heavy harvesters because they can't use heavy harvesters? That's as far from the truth as possible. Everybody can use heavy harvesters. They have the ability to use them because there are no certifications, and they have the motivation to use them because resource mining is, literally,a gold mine. There is really no reason *not* to use heavy harvesters other than not being able to afford the 6 figure cost.

"Because EVERYONE can use them and benefit from them. There has to be an additionalsystem to control that. To give Purpose."

Everyone can use heavy harvesters and benefit from them. Everyone does not because the costs are prohibitive. There is no system to 'control' any of this other than the economy. It works. The track record is proven.

You are attempting to argue that a certain system of controlling access to the various versions of an item is required because a) everyone can use the item, and b) everyone can benefit from the item. However, we already have items such as this, without any system of controlling access other than the economy, and it works perfectly well. You have not proven the case that this system is needed. In fact, the track record of the items already in the game prove that this system is *not* needed.

-Raystonn