Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Who Wants To Play A Droid Engineer Who Can't Use All His/Her Droids?
*sigh* True. But what do you expect from Sodan Droiddreamer?
Ellewen wrote:
Our oppinions and Ideas here have ZERO effect on the game its all nothing but talk of DE day-dreams and fantasies.
I don't think we should be able to control all our droids. We should probably all pay Boeing a visit and ask how many of their engineers are able to pilot the airplanes they build. Or ask some mechanics at a Formula1 race if they could complete a single lap without crashing the car into a wall.
Knowing how to build something does not mean that you can control it too. If we are able to control even the most powerful droids 'for free' DE will eventually turn into a Droid Handler class and that would disgust me.
Being a DE does not mean that you cannot learn some other skills so that you will be able to control all your droids. It might take some extra effort but I think if it means so much to you it will be worth it.
Ellewen wrote:
None of our oppinions matter here. You people still dont get it do you? This whole forum is nothing but fluff. The same regurgitated topics for near 7 months now and still no results. Our oppinions and Ideas here have ZERO effect on the game its all nothing but talk of DE day-dreams and fantasies. SOE has proven, for 7 months now, that they are going to do what they want to do with this profession reguardless of what any of us think.
This Profession has been fed so much meaningless jibborish by SOE, that the DE players have nothing else to do but start in at eachothers throats. Its been pathetic and nothing has changed.
carry on....
If you don't try at all nothing will happen. Just remember, if you don't voice an opinion you can't complain about the results.
And as for the skill-dependent meaning, yea, that does need to be defined too.
Apophis23 wrote:
I don't think we should be able to control all our droids. We should probably all pay Boeing a visit and ask how many of their engineers are able to pilot the airplanes they build. Or ask some mechanics at a Formula1 race if they could complete a single lap without crashing the car into a wall.
Knowing how to build something does not mean that you can control it too. If we are able to control even the most powerful droids 'for free' DE will eventually turn into a Droid Handler class and that would disgust me.
Being a DE does not mean that you cannot learn some other skills so that you will be able to control all your droids. It might take some extra effort but I think if it means so much to you it will be worth it.
Thanks for your response. If DEs don't have the skills to command droids as you argue here, who does?
Are you saying that other professions have more skill in commanding droids than DEs? If so, state your rational pls.
Finally, how do you respond to the argument that niether formula 1 racing cars or Boeing airplanes are autonimous mechanical beings capable of indipenent action on their own?
Combat droids require no skill to use...just as non-CH creatures require no "skill" for someone to use the creature.
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Thanks for your response. If DEs don't have the skills to command droids as you argue here, who does?
Are you saying that other professions have more skill in commanding droids than DEs? If so, state your rational pls.
Finally, how do you respond to the argument that niether formula 1 racing cars or Boeing airplanes are autonimous mechanical beings capable of indipenent action on their own?
By that logic alone, we should have access to any/all combat droids that require no skill commitment to use.
I think the real issue is...
How do we have powerful, desired, worthwhile combat droids (or combat modules) without the need for skill commitment?
/bow
Respectfully,
TheRealTK421 wrote:
I think the real issue is...
How do we have powerful, desired, worthwhile combat droids (or combat modules) without the need for skill commitment?
That's a simple one and I am glad you suggested the issue: DEs have been underpowered from the start, a broken class in need of fixing. Better droids are a solution to that problem, not an unwarranted upgrade.
Think of most other professions. They all have really good perks at the Master lvl; CH in particular comes to mind as they are, like it or not, another pet class as we are. What do we have? Module-less BLLs and an extra experimentation bonus for a crafting system that doesn't have proper experimentation. Soemthing is missing here: namely the kick butt droids most of us dream ok making and commanding.
Add to that, the fact that the devs have already stated their recognition that we have too many dependencies on other professions and you see that the skill points we have to invest in Master Artisan (or the recourses/time we have to expend to get Master Artisan components) more than make up for the benefit of having good droids.
The ability to control great droids, I submit, is what DEs are should be all about. The inability of DEs to control non-skill based droids would be the very height of irony. If you disagree, I respectful ask that your refute this proposition.
Sodan,
I think you are missing the issue...
Very few crafters are arguing that if devs put new combat droids in the game, that DEs shoulf not be able to use them at all.
What most of the crafters are arguing is that if new combat droids are added to the game, EVERYONE, including DEs, should be able to use them based on a system of certifications. Basically they are arguing that if we get new droids, we want to be able to sell them as well as use them (in other words, no DE-only droids, because DE-only droids do not help us sell droids to others).
Some have derived various versions of this principle. I am in the crafting camp, but my idea on how combat droids should be implemented is this:
(1) All classes can use all current droids
(2) In every novice elite combat profession (pistoleer, commando, BH, teras kasi, etc.) the person gets a cert for a medium power combat droid.
(3) At novice DE, the person gets a cert for both medium andstrong combat droids (DE advantage = strong instead of medium droid)
(4) In every master combat profession, the person gets a cert for a strong combat droid.
(5) At master DE, the person gets the ability to handle 2 droids, including 2 strong combat droids (DE advantage = 2 strong droids instead of one)
Now as you can see, this is a crafter argument because all droids will be usuable by everyone (no DE-only droids). However, DE's get a definite droid use combat advantage.
So, no one is telling you that youshouldn't be able to use the new combat droids that are being placed in the game, they are merely arguing that the new droids should not be DE-only...
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Some have derived various versions of this principle. I am in the crafting camp, but my idea on how combat droids should be implemented is this:
(1) All classes can use all current droids
(2) In every novice elite combat profession (pistoleer, commando, BH, teras kasi, etc.) the person gets a cert for a medium power combat droid.
(3) At novice DE, the person gets a cert for both medium andstrong combat droids (DE advantage = strong instead of medium droid)
(4) In every master combat profession, the person gets a cert for a strong combat droid.
(5) At master DE, the person gets the ability to handle 2 droids, including 2 strong combat droids (DE advantage = 2 strong droids instead of one)
I would agree with you 100%.This system you propose is an excellent system that gives us good game balance, allows DEs to be DEs, allows other proffessions the fun of our combat droids, allows DEs to sell lots of droids, and, heck, even gives us the DE-only perk of extra droids!
If this is what the "pure crafter" camp means, I'm all for it.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Very few crafters are arguing that if devs put new combat droids in the game, that DEs shoulf not be able to use them at all.
So, no one is telling you that youshouldn't be able to use the new combat droids that are being placed in the game, they are merely arguing that the new droids should not be DE-only...
Well, I can breath a sigh of relief then. I do think the "DE-only" issue is a SEPARATE issue from the "DEs should be able to use all non-skill based droids" issue.
I think DEs should get some manner of perk like the one you proposed above where MDEs get two combat droids, but most of all I think we should be able to use all of our non-skill based droids.
What do other's think about Daker's proposal? I like it a lot.
One modification I would propose is making it "CL level"-based. It would be nice to trade a "strong" combat droid like droideka for two or three "medium" combat droids like the "Roger Roger droids if they were properly balanced. That would be really nice!
Lol! Where is this quote from?
LingusKhanII wrote:
"Kid, I only trust me, a good blaster, and a droid I build myself; and I don't really even trust me that much...".
Lingus'Khan - Pilot of the Millenium Penguin
Jenden wrote:
If you don't try at all nothing will happen. Just remember, if you don't voice an opinion you can't complain about the results.
And as for the skill-dependent meaning, yea, that does need to be defined too.
Results? Excuse me Jenden, your obviously confused here... Ive voiced my oppinion for for months And when you come clear of your delussions, you'll find that there have been no results, none, Zero. Just more blah blah blah... talk. And now just complete silence. Its comical actualy. But comming from you, the only DE ive ever seen or heard who is completely confortable in your multiple account little bubble and are against any changes, good or bad, because it may alter your daily routine... Im realy not suprised.
On to the original post,
Since it has already been stated that our droids will never be above CLvL-10, It would be prety lame for us not to be able to use them. The only acception I can see is if a new droid is class specific like the seekers.
Theres my oppinion Jenden. Just for the record, I think your oppinion sucks. But thats also my oppinion
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
That's a simple one and I am glad you suggested the issue: DEs have been underpowered from the start, a broken class in need of fixing. Better droids are a solution to that problem, not an unwarranted upgrade.
I think it would be a better idea to fix whats broken instead of offering up combat droids to keep us happy. What is your definition of underpowered? Are you talking combat power? In that case all crafting, medic, doctor, entertainer, and scout professions are "underpowered". Are you talking about sales? In that case I don't think that has any relavence to the use of combat droids by DE's. How about just overall value? As it stands we make the most widely usable product in the game, we suffer from lack of decay and lack of experimentation (which incites people to buy the better model when new resources pop up), not lack of usability. I don't know a single character who wouldn't like the extra 10 storage spaces of a droid with storage, weather because they are out of inventory or to prevent decay on it.
Think of most other professions. They all have really good perks at the Master lvl; CH in particular comes to mind as they are, like it or not, another pet class as we are. What do we have? Module-less BLLs and an extra experimentation bonus for a crafting system that doesn't have proper experimentation. Soemthing is missing here: namely the kick butt droids most of us dream ok making and commanding.
I still don't see how you can equate CH to DE. What do we have in common? Do we have special abilities that let us tame wild droids? Are we the only ones that can program droids? Do we have a point other than combat? As it stands CH has only one purpose and one use, combat. Any idea that you could be a CH just to sell mounts is absurd as almost everyone would rather have a vehicle, and the idea that they could be a merchant profession that sells non-CH pets doesn't hold either since BE's now make better pets than they can tame. Even if you were to consider DEs "droid handlers" look at the primary purpose of droids, utility, support, and mobility. That is our domain, not combat. What is missing is the experimentation system you mentioned, as well as various crafting fixes and bugs listed in our threads.
Add to that, the fact that the devs have already stated their recognition that we have too many dependencies on other professions and you see that the skill points we have to invest in Master Artisan (or the recourses/time we have to expend to get Master Artisan components) more than make up for the benefit of having good droids.
First of all, though we do have more dependencies, it takes about2 minutes and 5k to get a Master Artisan to make a schematic for you, so I wouldn't hardly consider that much in the way of time or resources. Furthermore, the devs have stated they're looking into the dependency issue, would you rather have them work on that or give you your uber combat droids?
The ability to control great droids, I submit, is what DEs are should be all about. The inability of DEs to control non-skill based droids would be the very height of irony. If you disagree, I respectful ask that your refute this proposition.
The ability to control great droids, in my opinion, has nothing to do with being a droid engineer. You can take two stances on this. On the one hand, Droids are supposed to have AI, there should be no reason to limit them in any way shape or form. By this argument, sure DE's would be able to use droids, but so would everyone else. The other option is certifications. Now, I can't think of a single reason a DE would be better at using a droid than anyone else, afterall, a droid is artificial intelligence. You tell a droid to do something, it does it. The closest analogy to this is a weapon. You pull the trigger, it fires. Now, not everyone is certed for every weapon, why is that? Its because, though anyone can pull the trigger, it takes experience in using the weapon to make you any good with that. Similarly, it takes experience at utilizing a droid in combat to be any good at it. Anyone can tell a droid to go attack, and you essentially get a probot type attack droid. Anything much more advanced and you need to know how to properly use it in your tactical plans (hence some combat experience would be required.
Ideally, this cert system would be a seperate set of skills that anyone can achieve (through experience in using a droid in combat). Now, this can go two ways. You could either make the experience requirements very high, which would keep any brand new players from getting the top end combat droids, but it would take anyone a while to get the certifications. The other choice is to lower the xp requirements and add a skillpoint cost. It would be easier to get, but would bring about choices (Life is all about choices, and its those choices that make the game diverse).
Ellewen wrote:
Results? Excuse me Jenden, your obviously confused here... Ive voiced my oppinion for for months And when you come clear of your delussions, you'll find that there have been no results, none, Zero. Just more blah blah blah... talk. And now just complete silence. Its comical actualy. But comming from you, the only DE ive ever seen or heard who is completely confortable in your multiple account little bubble and are against any changes, good or bad, because it may alter your daily routine... Im realy not suprised.
First of all, I never said there had been results, I just said that there will eventually be results. Despite popular opinion, the devs are not out to make your life a living hell, this is their job, this is what they get paid for, they are doing it the best they can. Secondly, while I may think that this profession isn't nearly as bad off as most of you see it, I am aware of all the problems and bugs with the profession. If you'll notice, I've posted in most if not all of the threads involving the future and the direction of the profession. In all of those I have stated my opinion as to the direction I think the profession should go (and I don't think I've ever said I am against change, its only change in directions that I don't like).
Secondly, I have only one account, and at that I only play on one server. Furthermore, probably about 90% of the time I spend online I spend working on droids for people or selling droids. This is what I enjoy doing, therefore this is what I do. I have no problem with things disrupting my routine, I am always looking forward to changes to the DE profession, so long as they are changes that further DE as the crafting profession I enjoy, not as some crafting/combat hybrid.
On to the original post,
Since it has already been stated that our droids will never be above CLvL-10, It would be prety lame for us not to be able to use them. The only acception I can see is if a new droid is class specific like the seekers.
I believe that post was directed at the probot, and would probably apply to any general-use combat droids. My guess is they will come up with higher end combat droids at a later date that will require some form of cert system, at which time the questions does become relavent.
Theres my oppinion Jenden. Just for the record, I think your oppinion sucks. But thats also my oppinion
Everyone's entitled to their opinion
Jenden,
Where do you stand on Daker's proposal secifically. (Want to address the substance of your arguments a bit later today)