Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Thoughts on the new vendor changes?
Jenden wrote:
Another aspect of this change for us is it renders yet another of our droids worthless... I know merchant barkers have never been a huge seller, but it would become just one more schematic taking up space that had no function anymore with this change.
Jenden, please, for the love of C3PO, pitch the biggest fit ever recorded in correspondent history over this. It will kill my and all of the long-time DE sales. You are our voice to the Devs, and I would literally trade any enhancement of our profession for all of time to stop this.
If it is beyond the point of no return, they MUST at least remove the instant delivery and make people go to your shop like they did in Beta.
I let them know (on the Corr boards) that this change, as is, would likely cause me to just close up shop and...when that happens....likely /cancel.
DarthRoe wrote:
Jenden wrote:
Another aspect of this change for us is it renders yet another of our droids worthless... I know merchant barkers have never been a huge seller, but it would become just one more schematic taking up space that had no function anymore with this change.
Jenden, please, for the love of C3PO, pitch the biggest fit ever recorded in correspondent history over this. It will kill my and all of the long-time DE sales. You are our voice to the Devs, and I would literally trade any enhancement of our profession for all of time to stop this.
If it is beyond the point of no return, they MUST at least remove the instant delivery and make people go to your shop like they did in Beta.
Basically, for me, if my game time ends up being nothing more than running about buying up undercutters and performing 'price protection', I won't have time to craft, run factories or do a myriad of other things.
That sound like pitching a bit of a 'fit' to you?
/bow
Respectfully,
Message Edited by TheRealTK421 on 02-11-2005 04:37 PM
TheRealTK421 wrote:I let them know (on the Corr boards) that this change, as is, would likely cause me to just close up shop and...when that happens....likely /cancel.
DarthRoe wrote:
Jenden wrote:
Another aspect of this change for us is it renders yet another of our droids worthless... I know merchant barkers have never been a huge seller, but it would become just one more schematic taking up space that had no function anymore with this change.
Jenden, please, for the love of C3PO, pitch the biggest fit ever recorded in correspondent history over this. It will kill my and all of the long-time DE sales. You are our voice to the Devs, and I would literally trade any enhancement of our profession for all of time to stop this.
If it is beyond the point of no return, they MUST at least remove the instant delivery and make people go to your shop like they did in Beta.
Basically, for me, if my game time ends up being nothing more than running about buying up undercutters and performing 'price protection', I won't have time to craft, run factories or do a myriad of other things.
That sound like pitching a bit of a 'fit' to you?
That's exactly what I'd say, and that's exactly what I'll do if it goes through.
Message Edited by DarthRoe on 02-11-2005 04:43 PM
Jenden wrote:
DarthRoe wrote:
Jenden wrote:
Another aspect of this change for us is it renders yet another of our droids worthless... I know merchant barkers have never been a huge seller, but it would become just one more schematic taking up space that had no function anymore with this change.
Jenden, please, for the love of C3PO, pitch the biggest fit ever recorded in correspondent history over this. It will kill my and all of the long-time DE sales. You are our voice to the Devs, and I would literally trade any enhancement of our profession for all of time to stop this.
If it is beyond the point of no return, they MUST at least remove the instant delivery and make people go to your shop like they did in Beta.
I'm pitching... and so are a number of other people...
Thanks, Jenden.
I'm mad they even posted about it like this, because now even if we win with them taking out instant delivery and the like, non-merchants are goind to be hostile about the "greedy merchants" that cost them their free delivery. I heard the Merchant Corr. didn't even know about these changes until she read it on the Dev Tracker.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Lets say that there are 10 DE's on a server who actually are pretty close on prices. They are in it for the long haul, they have been DE's for a while, and plan on staying there. As you and I both know, there is only a finite number of droids to be sold to the server. The same number of Droids will be sold as before, people will just have an easier way to compare price and quality.
Now enter 2 new DE's. These DE's are not very business minded. They can harvest their resources for .5 CPU, so if they sell at 2 cpu, they are making a 1.5 cpu profit. Who cares if people have been paying 20 cpu for the same droids before.
Now for 1 month these DE's crank the factories, putting tons of droids on their vendor (and the bazaar,) for 2 cpu. Let's say they focus on Storage, Med, and BHDroids. Now, exactly the same amount of people will be buying droids as before, the difference is, now they will just grab the cheapest ones.
Here is what will happen. Yes they may sell out, but droids don't move all that fast, so they may not. If they do sell out, they are all excited "WOW I sold stuff!!" thier prices must be good right? So they continue.
Now what will probably happen is that after about a month, they go "Holy crap, this sucks. I put in all this work, made all these sales, yet I don't have a lot of money." Customers bother them, crafting isn't as much fun or profitable as they thought. So now they give it up. They may even lower their prices more to have a going out of business sale.
So now all the normal DE's breath a sigh of relief and things go back to normal right? Wrong. Because next month 2 more of the same types of DE's show up and EXACTLY the same thing happens.
Two words for you..... Resale Profit.
Creating a galaxy wide marketing would actually have a negative impact on those that would feel the need to undercut a market. By having a galaxy wide listing, nothing stops a person from completely buying out another persons inventory stock. Think about how many people would have the ability to simply buy out the entire stock of droids listed and then turn around to resale the droids for 5 -10 times more then what they paid for them. This fact alone would reduce the number of wide scale price cutting that you are refering too.
I also have to disagree with your belief that a galaxy wide market would have a negative impact on the DE market. Take a look at the number of threads that are created in this forum and the galaxy forums, from people looking for droids. We actually have one of the higher number of product requests from customers because many customers can't find a DE when they need a droid. A galaxy wide market would actually increase the overall number of droids sold, since it would allow more people access to a droid.
I agree that a Galaxy Wide market would have some negative impact on some merchants; however one of the biggest complaints from anyone trying to buy a product is availablity. We have to look at the issue of the greater good for the community as a whole.
As long as you must still travel to the vendor location to pick up the good, which would be the one change that needs to be made to the the suggested changes, we still have a viable market set up that would benefit everyone.
The only problem with this idea is that to keep my business healthy, that's all I'd be able to spend my game time doing.
Drashk wrote:
Two words for you..... Resale Profit.
I'm a crafter, not a commodities broker. I'd like to be able to have time to do other things and know that my business was safe.
This change means that I'd have to log on daily, check the markets, go try to clear out the undercutters and HOPE that I could generate traffic enough to make sales and not get bloated by inventory.
I just don't want to go down this road...cause I think there's any number of unforeseen issues that would wreak havoc on a ton of long-time, well-known businesses and crafters.
I support the idea in concept but this implementation sounds very very bad for people like me (and Efon / DarthRoe, it sounds like).
/bow
Respectfully,
Message Edited by TheRealTK421 on 02-11-2005 04:55 PM
TheRealTK421 wrote:
The only problem with this idea is that to keep my business healthy, that's all I'd be able to spend my game time doing.
Drashk wrote:
Two words for you..... Resale Profit.
I'm a crafter, not a commodities broker. I'd like to be able to have time to do other things and know that my business was safe.
This change means that I'd have to log on daily, check the markets, go try to clear out the undercutters and HOPE that I could generate traffic enough to make sales and not get bloated by inventory.
No one said that you would need to be the one that did it. This would actually be a great opportunity for the Merchant profession to become a complete and stand alone profession, instead of relying on the need to take up a crafting profession as well. Those that constently tried to undercut would quickly lose the ability to keep up with the artifical demand that was being created by the merchant that bought their inventory out. This resales market already exists ingame, but on a rather small scale, due to limited locations that many undercutters have.
One thing that no one has pointed out thus far is this....
How many pages of vendor screens will most people be willing to search through, in order to find the products that they want?
With this suggested change, dozens, if not hundreds of pages will be displayed for each product type.
You know, aside from the obvious downside to the droid community, you know what scares me the most? Resource hunting will be gone. You know, the mad searches you go through to find the really good resources, and the only reason its on that remote vendor is because it's...well...remote. No longer. That stuff will be cherry-picked by the billionaires and resold for insane prices. Prices will become a constant. No more bargain hunting.
This is absolute cr*p. This idea needs to be torpedoed before it hits the water!!!
Message Edited by RasalTheWise on 02-11-2005 05:35 PM
Drashk wrote:
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Lets say that there are 10 DE's on a server who actually are pretty close on prices. They are in it for the long haul, they have been DE's for a while, and plan on staying there. As you and I both know, there is only a finite number of droids to be sold to the server. The same number of Droids will be sold as before, people will just have an easier way to compare price and quality.
Now enter 2 new DE's. These DE's are not very business minded. They can harvest their resources for .5 CPU, so if they sell at 2 cpu, they are making a 1.5 cpu profit. Who cares if people have been paying 20 cpu for the same droids before.
Now for 1 month these DE's crank the factories, putting tons of droids on their vendor (and the bazaar,) for 2 cpu. Let's say they focus on Storage, Med, and BHDroids. Now, exactly the same amount of people will be buying droids as before, the difference is, now they will just grab the cheapest ones.
Here is what will happen. Yes they may sell out, but droids don't move all that fast, so they may not. If they do sell out, they are all excited "WOW I sold stuff!!" thier prices must be good right? So they continue.
Now what will probably happen is that after about a month, they go "Holy crap, this sucks. I put in all this work, made all these sales, yet I don't have a lot of money." Customers bother them, crafting isn't as much fun or profitable as they thought. So now they give it up. They may even lower their prices more to have a going out of business sale.
So now all the normal DE's breath a sigh of relief and things go back to normal right? Wrong. Because next month 2 more of the same types of DE's show up and EXACTLY the same thing happens.
Two words for you..... Resale Profit.
Creating a galaxy wide marketing would actually have a negative impact on those that would feel the need to undercut a market. By having a galaxy wide listing, nothing stops a person from completely buying out another persons inventory stock. Think about how many people would have the ability to simply buy out the entire stock of droids listed and then turn around to resale the droids for 5 -10 times more then what they paid for them. This fact alone would reduce the number of wide scale price cutting that you are refering too.
Ok so now I need to worry about setting aside credits so that I can buy out every idiot undercutter that comes along?
So what happens when I buy all their droids, then reprice them. They make 1.5 cpu profit, then because I bought them out, this encourages them. So now they droid another 20, 50, 100 droids down at 1.5 cpu again. Do I buy them again? When does it stop? Heck if DE's end up buying lower DE's stuff, 2 cpu actually may start to turn a profit.
Buying then reselling is a horrible justification for this change. It's actually horrid to think about selling another DE's droids on my vendors, how would I even know if they were made properly?
I also have to disagree with your belief that a galaxy wide market would have a negative impact on the DE market. Take a look at the number of threads that are created in this forum and the galaxy forums, from people looking for droids. We actually have one of the higher number of product requests from customers because many customers can't find a DE when they need a droid. A galaxy wide market would actually increase the overall number of droids sold, since it would allow more people access to a droid.
Because people are lazy. It's simple. How many people walk in here and post that thye are looking for a DE for XXX server. Yet they have the vendor thread right there. Many people don't use the global map at all, they don't want to spend the time going to find vendors. Sure it is a pain in the butt at first, but when you find good vendors write them down.
Word of mouth gets you far as well, people will forward you to people.
See that is just the problem with this new system. Some of us WORK to ALWAYS have a stocked vendor, that way any customer will come back, they don't need to look. We also work hard to keep a good rep, so people reccomend us. This new system tosses all that out. Stocked vendors, customer relations, reputation, all thrown out the window.
I agree that a Galaxy Wide market would have some negative impact on some merchants; however one of the biggest complaints from anyone trying to buy a product is availablity. We have to look at the issue of the greater good for the community as a whole.
If you have a server where people can't find DE's then that sounds like a business opportunity on that server to me. A DE needs to open up shop there. You don't nerf the DE's on the other servers to cover that one.
I still don't understand how allowing price wars and combatents to spend less for supplies is good for the community. They spend their time running missions, I spend my time crafting. 40 hours of work should equal at least close to the same amount. If this change goes through, instead of my DE supporting my Combatent, it will be the other way around. Sure I can pay my maint, and such, but I could forget uber weapons or loot.
An increase in combatent bank accounts, while decreasing crafters bank accounts is just plain folly.
As long as you must still travel to the vendor location to pick up the good, which would be the one change that needs to be made to the the suggested changes, we still have a viable market set up that would benefit everyone.
That would be a step in the right direction, but it would still not be enough. Stock should be able to be viewed remotely, but not prices. This would help people find stocked vendors, but wouldn't make global undercutting as easy.
What bothers me the most about this change is that is appears none of the corrs knew about it, not even the merchant Corr. That is totally messed up. Yes people have been asking for a change such as this for a long time, yet those are mostly combatents and non-crafters who have no idea the ramifications it would make.
This idea should have been bounced off the crafting corrs before one second of coding time was spent. The bad thing is that now that some coding time HAS been spent on it, we will be lucky if we can get it stopped. They wont wantto waste that time.
I hope I am wrong.
RasalTheWise wrote:
You know, aside from the obvious downside to the droid community, you know what scares me the most? Resource hunting will be gone. You know, the mad searches you go through to find the really good resources, and the only reason its on that remote vendor is because it's...well...remote. No longer. That stuff will be cherry-picked by the billionaires and resold for insane prices. Prices will become a constant. No more bargain hunting.
This is absolute cr*p. This idea needs to be torpedoed before it hits the water!!!
The good thing with the change is that everybody gets a chance to buy the ressources in the first case, not only the broker who knows all the good resource vendor.
Now, what would be if it was a) a perk for Maser Merchants and b) would cost like 50% extra? That should keep the non hard-core Merchants out andlet the people decide if they rather want to pay extra or take a little trip. (plus we *might* be able to get a delivery droid into the game ^^ )
P.S.: I posted into the thread already, it will be almost impossible to find what you want anyway, due to the simple Amount of offers then.
RasalTheWise wrote:
Straker, thank you so much for bringing this to our attention.
You know, aside from the obvious downside to the droid community, you know what scares me the most? Resource hunting will be gone. You know, the mad searches you go through to find the really good resources, and the only reason its on that remote vendor is because it's...well...remote. No longer. That stuff will be cherry-picked by the billionaires and resold for insane prices. Prices will become a constant. No more bargain hunting.
This is absolute cr*p. This idea needs to be torpedoed before it hits the water!!!
Message Edited by RasalTheWise on 02-11-2005 05:35 PM
Holy crap Rasal your right. I didn't even think of that. Well that will hurt me bad. Our tolium is also our best med gases, my steel the best for armorsmiths as well, same for inert gas. Now I will be directly competing with other crafters in game as well as on the boards.
What's funny is I was thinking that if this does go live I would maybe just sell resources.
Here is the thing, ask Kaasi about this and like 10 other new DE's on Scylla. I am 100% ready to play nice and fair with new DE's, even helping them out as much as I can. I have spent a long time building a reputation, there is plenty of room for me and newer guys. I totally refuse to toss out all my work and have to deal with one undercutter after another.
I will hang up my DE clothes before I watch us turn into a pack of wolves at each others throats.
Atan wrote:
RasalTheWise wrote:
You know, aside from the obvious downside to the droid community, you know what scares me the most? Resource hunting will be gone. You know, the mad searches you go through to find the really good resources, and the only reason its on that remote vendor is because it's...well...remote. No longer. That stuff will be cherry-picked by the billionaires and resold for insane prices. Prices will become a constant. No more bargain hunting.
This is absolute cr*p. This idea needs to be torpedoed before it hits the water!!!
The good thing with the change is that everybody gets a chance to buy the ressources in the first case, not only the broker who knows all the good resource vendor.
Now, what would be if it was a) a perk for Maser Merchants and b) would cost like 50% extra? That should keep the non hard-core Merchants out andlet the people decide if they rather want to pay extra or take a little trip. (plus we *might* be able to get a delivery droid into the game ^^ )
P.S.: I posted into the thread already, it will be almost impossible to find what you want anyway, due to the simple Amount of offers then.
The only difference between somebody who "knows all the good resource vendors," is that one person spent the time to look and the other did not. The person who worked should get a reward, the other shouldn't, evne if that work was opening the map and lookngi for global vendors.
Now the lazy profit jsut as much as the hard workers.