Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: Combat Droids/Droid Engineer with Combat Droid Pets Private Message Writing Campaign

Jenden
Fri Feb 27, 2004 10:16 am
#14






Boeda wrote:

>overwhelming support for added utility and a fixed DE profession< ?


I wasnt paying much attention. But I'd like to make some points.


Someone waiting for combat droids, Who hears they are 'comming in Jan.' will,,'go work on thier armor 4 box.' or Try the latest monthly quest with thier novice pistol skill.Not rant on the boards about ,, what ?


Its the 'pure crafters' who have nothing better to do while they are waiting for thier resourses to switch (paint dry?) that come to the forums to 'kill time' (how do I know this ?)((Oh ya, cause I cant do much else))


Its now that we see No "droid invasion" that we were expecting. Thet you see this flood of 'community members' Amids us sorry veterans.


About the direct messaging Idea. Im not sure its effect. A single short direct messageper board account here might actually help. Spamming multiple messages from a single account would just be harassment.


I read somewhere that TH chose some correspondant cause they private messaged him some way. he said he liked thier 'initiative'. Well I PMed him once after reading that. I go no reply. And I imagine they have too many messages to read very carefully. Other than that one PM. I have been having my efforts on the boards.


Both the idea that private messages could help. And the idea that those in favor of combat droid get flamed here are quite respectible to me. I tried a 'do you want combat droids' Poll. I got one yes, one no, and FIVE 'this poll is too vague', or 'go away' or 'enough polls already' Who is fearing a poll like that and why ? Without looking i'll guess, probly Jenden, and Kolos were amoung the phearfull.


That said. I havnt yet PMed and may very well just continue my efforts here. But I respect the idea. And I dont accept the 'pure crafter will' is the majority of DEs. I missed the 'poll threads' They may have looked that way. Or maby mostly only 'pure crafters' will play a class as broken as DEs. I dunno. But I understand my own desires. And my 'Jedi wisdom', tells me these desires are shared by Many.






Most of us that come here to the forums to discuss the future of the profession do not do so for lack of other things to do. There are countless things I could be doing that would be more productive to my real life, and I don't get in enough game time as it is. The reason we come here and post is because we have an interest in the future of the profession and hope to guide it in what we believe is the right direction. When people don't agree what that is we have a civilized debate. That is the way the system is supposed to work.



Jenden Morn - Master of Droids- Tarquinas
Droid Engineer Blue Glowy
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
Groupy of the best band in the galaxy, Solar Flair
3D art of Jenden by Saeelwenea

Shian_Tavkin
Fri Feb 27, 2004 10:20 am
#15

It might be nice for everyone to remember that there are real live breathing human beings behind these board names.


Laughing at people and picking on typos, even the practice of attacking flaws in logic which are obviously mistakes in posting is not very nice.






Shian -- Master Droid Engineer/ Master Artisan
Leadhead101
Fri Feb 27, 2004 10:24 am
#16






Shian_Tavkin wrote:

It might be nice for everyone to remember that there are real live breathing human beings behind these board names.


Laughing at people and picking on typos, even the practice of attacking flaws in logic which are obviously mistakes in posting is not very nice.









Awww c'mon mom! We are just building the boy's character!



"Nothing would be what it is, Because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary-wise -what it is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?"
Shian_Tavkin
Fri Feb 27, 2004 10:27 am
#17

I expected as much. Well done,







Shian -- Master Droid Engineer/ Master Artisan
Kollos
Fri Feb 27, 2004 10:36 am
#18






Shian_Tavkin wrote:

It might be nice for everyone to remember that there are real live breathing human beings behind these board names.


Pot. Kettle. Black. You launched into me with no provocation not that long ago. Take your own advice once in a while.


Laughing at people and picking on typos, even the practice of attacking flaws in logic which are obviously mistakes in posting is not very nice.


But it's okay to call people names? It's okay to spit venom and bile at people who are attempting to have constructive discussions? Arden doesn't deserve your pity, he deserves theridicule he gets for his tirades, rants, and other childish behavior.


Arden can be a smart guy. I have seen evidence of that elsewhere. But his behavior here is despicable.


I respect people with different opinions than mine. I don't respect adults who behave like my 2-yr old godson.










Kollos Orcslayer : Master Droid Engineer : Master Artisan

Droids by Kollos -840, 3980 Seacht, Naboo (NW of Keren)
Bounty Hunter Droids by Kollos 4924, 6107 550m SW of Kaadara
Vehicles and Master Artisan Components also available
paying 250k/point for Droid Assembly Skill Tapes, minimum of +4

Leadhead101
Fri Feb 27, 2004 10:36 am
#19

Sorry couldn't pass it up but I will add that it is also not constructive to the promotion of ideas.



"Nothing would be what it is, Because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary-wise -what it is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?"
THJahar
Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:35 am
#20

Despite Arden's fanatically approach to combat droids.
I as a relatively infrequent poster believe he has a point.
What I see from the forums is that it's dominated by a few core individuals.
Perhaps those individuals who are predisposed to 'pure crafting' also have a predispostition to posting in forums.
it make's sense if you are 'into' the cerebal aspect of crafting then your also into the cerebal aspect of talking about it.
People like me who like to be hybrid i.e. I got a nice set of composite and 0-4-1-1 in pistoller as well as master artisan and MDE, don't post as often.
I've found amongst my guild mates as well as a few MDEs i've talked too...we all want the same thing.namely combat droids.
And it's my belief (notice the word belief, i do not have empirical data) that the majority of people also want to have combat droids. the bigger the better.
OK then we hit the crux of the matter.
Crafters are like recovering alchoholics, if > CL10 droids were handed out to DE's and DE's only...we'd see a raft of individuals pour into the profession and not for the noble aim's that the crafters hold dear. And will the crafters resist using these bot's? Naah they'll be swigging on a bottle of 90% Droideka before you can blink.
So there we have it, the crafters think that their profession will be ruined by the 'template' players, as well as the temptation to go out and 'tank' stuff will 'cheapen' their perception of their own profession.

*sigh* I for one would have welcomed the certificate route, (as long as we MDE's got a bonus of some sort) but having that naysayed meant that we have no choice but to except the current status quoe.

I still wish my 'Battery' idea would have gotten more response from the crafters as I thought it was simple and elegant.
(For those of you who didn't read it i'll re-cap briefly
The higher the level of droid the more complex the battery it required.
Therefore you could have a basic droid that would run on a cheap battery that would be retailed for 800creds whilst the 'uber' droids would require batterys of nuclear proportions costing well over 10k for one.
Results means that everyone can have an uber droid but they are reluctant to use it due to it's maintenance cost.
Therefore the lower skill levels who have less income buy smaller droids whilst the more you progress the more you can afford in essence mimicking a 'cert' scheme by using market forces.
And as in real life those without combat skills i.e. crafters etc. will use them more frequently whilst the combat professions would probably not 'bite' the cost as they can 'kill stuff on their own thank you very much'
The end result would have been that we as MDE's would have a viable and fluid income.
Those hybrid DE's get the bonus as our cost's would just be the time invested in creating batteries for our own droid.
Oh yes and don't forget we have a precedent here with the vehicles in that it cost's faaar more to run a swoop than a X34 )

What i'm trying to say is that the developers did take into account those views expressed here in the forum, but as crafters are fond of pointing out 'droids should be for everyone' perhaps the dev's should have taken that to heart and got a broader view from all professions.
And if you want droids to be 'for the people' then the profession itself should be created 'for the people'.
Shian_Tavkin
Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:51 am
#21






Kollos wrote:





Shian_Tavkin wrote:

It might be nice for everyone to remember that there are real live breathing human beings behind these board names.


Pot. Kettle. Black. You launched into me with no provocation not that long ago. Take your own advice once in a while.


Laughing at people and picking on typos, even the practice of attacking flaws in logic which are obviously mistakes in posting is not very nice.


But it's okay to call people names? It's okay to spit venom and bile at people who are attempting to have constructive discussions? Arden doesn't deserve your pity, he deserves theridicule he gets for his tirades, rants, and other childish behavior.


Arden can be a smart guy. I have seen evidence of that elsewhere. But his behavior here is despicable.


I respect people with different opinions than mine. I don't respect adults who behave like my 2-yr old godson.






Did someone depive you of your baby-rattle when you were a child, or is it later life experiences that have made you so very nasty as a person? Perhaps you have been bullied in real life, I dont know and I dont want to know. What I do know is nothing on these boards is worth getting so all fired riled up over. Thats as true for you as it is for me, and any other poster here. and Godson has a G lol










Shian -- Master Droid Engineer/ Master Artisan
OrionsByte
Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:52 am
#22

Others have pointed this out before, so I'll keep this brief.


There's no denying that a lot of people in the game want to see combat droids. That's never really been the issue. As a DE on Naritus I get dozen's of /tells a day asking when I'll be able to build them a droideka (it makes my blood boil, I tell ya). The marketability of combat droids is not in question.


The meat of the debate has been how to implement these droids. Those of us that are "pure crafters" are not saying we don't want to use droids in combat, we're saying that we shouldn't gain the ability to use them in combat just because we built them. We're saying that if someone wants to fight, they should train themselves in the way of combat, not get those skills for free.





Checking your spelling (and punctuation, too) will ensure that you're making sense to more than two people.
- +----=X Biranno Runningstar X=----+ -
Master Musician | Master Droid Engineer | 4020 Artisan | 0/0/3/1 Fencer | Alliance Ace Pilot
Emerald Ridge, Naboo ~ Naritus

-I support ATK play!
THJahar
Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:06 pm
#23

OrionsByte.
We have to balance between 2 areas, namely:
1) In a theoretical future, droids are AI creatures that have been developed to do jobs and tasks that humans cannot do or are too dangerous.
2) this is a game and it needs to be balanced so ignore point 1)

to be trained to handle a droid is ludicrous..droids in keeping with point 1 should have been programmed to be handled by anyone...it's not difficult for a human to shout 'attack that Ninja Nuna' with the voice recognition picking up the command and it's area recognition softeware analysing it's environs (don't forget CP30 has 'emotions!' do you know how complex they are to programme?)

So this then leads us to point 2) this is a game so ignore point 1)...yup we can't have any n00b with a cdef pulling out a lvl 50 droid and annihalating everything in his path....ok commonsense says that is how droids will be built in the far future but for a game it's usueless...hence the 'penalty' I.e. if you can't pay then don't play.
Tarne_Monter
Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:22 pm
#24

Ok, it is my understanding that DE becoming a hybrid profession will follow like this.
DE becomes a hybrid profession with high power droids, thus people flock to DE. Then shortly following the Giant Nerf Bat in the sky smites us all. Then people leave in droves. An example of this can be seen in the past with regards to the CH profession.

While I would love to have a droiddeka and run around smiting things, I also realize that this needs to be balanced. While I personally think that a certification system would solve this problem, the dev's don't. So that's where that ends. Unfortunately between us and the devs we were not able to come to a consensus about how to implement combat droids that are higher than level 10. And so that concept was pushed back for later discussion in favor bug fixes and more non-combat functionality for droids.

I do agree that the majority of the community wants more combat droids, and this can be seen in the listing of stuff for publish 7, the combat modules. Although this isn't more combat droids, it is acknowledging that most people want them.

As far as the PM writing campaign goes I think that it would be better worth your time to get people who play but do not participate in the forum to lend their opinion to the discussions, polls and debates about the future of DE. And most noteable not their rants or their flames.



Tarne Monter from Elderhome, Naboo, Ahazi
Vendor "Tarne's Droids" in the Merchant Tent at 5680 4451 Naboo
Master Droid Engineer and Master Artisan
Smuggler 0/2/0/0

Kadaara, Naboo, TC
Marksman 0/0/3/0
demosthenes810
Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:35 pm
#25

If I was TH on my vacation and came back to rants in pms about this stupid debate, I'd ban the lot of you. These guys are too busy to answer a flood of pms...but if you feel a need to hammer at the guys who are trying their best to help you, and treat them like **edit**...nothing I can do about it. TH's entire job is nothing but taking your views and pointing them out to the devs and fighting his butt off for them...so he fights for us players every single day, all day long...and then he gets floods of pms like this. So sad...if I was him, I'd just stop listening.



Deric


Shian_Tavkin
Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:46 pm
#26

The real problem is that this isn't a debate at all.


It's just an never ending circle of restatement of position from the interested factions. It's almost at the point where 'cut and paste' responses are being used.


Surely the only way forward is for all sides to give a little. I started out with one position and have modified my expectations downward as I have gone along. I really don't see any such movement from the opposing camp in any meaningful way. I even think that perhaps we are all wasting our time here on this topic, but just maybe we are not.


Ahh well.





Shian -- Master Droid Engineer/ Master Artisan
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