Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Please help me understand your change of heart.
Like most others have said, there is no change of heart here. I don't think the majority of the DE community ever wanted a Handler class.
I agree with those who have pointed out that there seems to be a discrepancy in what the community as a whole was expecting with combat droids and what the devolpment team is envisioning.
I would like to see some droids that are a bit better than the current probot, combat wise, but what I really want as a Droid Engineer is more droids that are useful to other aspects of the game.
I would love to see droids which provide bonuses and perks to each class - as it has been mentioned before - droids to help with Slicing, droids to help with structure management, item delivery droids.
I would love to see the psychology aspect incorporated for droids - give droids experimental values that will influence the droid's personality (even non-speaking droids in the SW universe have personality - look at R2D2).
I would love to, as a Master Droid Engineer have 2 droids out - I would even be happy and content if only one of them could have combat ability (read: I would like to be able to repair or power my own droids).
There are so many aspects of this game that droids could enhance - I think that getting hung up on the combat perspective is holding the class and the product back from being a really fun, engaging way to spend time and money.
Thunderheart,
Thunderheart wrote:
How about you pull together some information about how and in what manner it is possible for DROID ENGINEERS to use DROIDS?
I spoke to Blair about all the pain on this issue and we're going to have Runsabre put up an uberpost this afternoon.
Please understand....
We only fault you for the apparent issues with communication going so horribly wrong. For this specifics behind this situation, I believe that we DO warrant an explanation (of more than a sentence or two).
As for the uberpost, I can only hope that the Dev team is being openminded enough to consider all the possible arguments, comments, points, etc.
Otherwise...don't even bother. If you all are going to do what you've already set in motion, you might as well rip off the BandAid quickly and let us know. Yes...some will cancel. Yes...you'll be facing a PR hit. But, at least you'll be coming clean.
I think that this situation, to be honest, has turned into the debacle it has due to the fact that we've been ignored and misunderstood for SOOOO long.
I'm running out of words...which is odd for me...and should be a telling sign of how very troubling the last few days has been.
/bow
Respectfully,
I get the feeling the statement "We don't want to be Droid Handlers" got misunderstood to mean "We think there should be a Droid Handler profession and it shouldn't be us."
But, more importantly, I think that there has been a great deal of work on a metalic version of Creature Handler and it is now in search of a home. Sort of like a solution in search of a problem. There are many problems with any class that is a Pet Handler class. I do not see a reason why we should repeat the problems involved in the proliferation-nerfing-conflict of yet another Pet Handler class.
The major disagreement DEs have had is over whether or not a DE should be able to have more combat ability with droids (whether a DE only combat droid or multiple droids). However, that has been set aside until we deal with this mischaracterization that we, the DEs 'clearly' wanted a class to be created when we clearly did not.
TH, I don't think you intentionally meant to make so many of us angry. I understand that you are doing far more than any of us are seeing and that it can be a jumble of information. But, thisissue is pretty serious. First, we are practically ignored since launch, then we are informed that we 'clearly' wanted something that we did not. What's more, with the amount of attention paid to Droids over the last few months, we are concerned with just how much attention we might get after the DH profession is introduced. A focus on combat abilities for droids does not bode well for the very bug ridden existing utility droids. It was the utility droids we saw in the original 3 episodes. The utility droids that were available to assist their owners. It is the utility droids we can sell to anyone but it appears that it will be the combat droids with their very limited market that will receive the focus of attention.
CIanion wrote:
**I spoke to Blair about all the pain on this issue and we're going to have Runsabre put up an uberpost this afternoon.**
Does anyone else see another MSE bomb announcement coming?
Who knows? Maybe we'll get another entirely different flavor of empty promises, failed deadlines, and myopic design decisions!
Thunderheart wrote:
grommond wrote:
Thunderheart,
I think you are writing off the cert system too soon.
This isn't up to me. Im not making the decision.
I dont know what decision the dev team will make but I have told them that the community:
- Clearly doesnt like the idea of a DH profession
- Prefers the idea of Droid Certifications
The problem with Droid Certs is that it would raise the combat bar and there would have to be a lot of rule changes. I'm working with the team now to pull together some information on all the problems a cert system would bring. Either myself or Runsabre will post on it today.
*Looks at sky and puts arms up in the air* Finally! Thank you...
One thing: PLEASE makeCLEAR that we are NOT asking for CL50 droids here...we want the droids to be "medium" on the grand pet scale...maybe a maximum ham of 4k to 5k on the HARDEST one to get (as in it takes the most to qualify for it).
Please also note that if you take out the ability to stimpack heal droids, and add capabilities for repair/power droids and/or DE repair kits, balance becomes MUCH less an issue...if your 5k droideka is only good for one high end battle before it needs repaired (and if they stay permadeath) balance becomes a non-issue.
I haven't had time to read all the posts on this thread, but my concern with making droids function in the same way as creatures by making a DE a clone of BE and creating a DH that is a clone of CH is this:
If the DE and DH trees are all beefed up with an emphasis on combat to mimic BE/CH, then we may end up being told later that we can't enhance the non-combat functions of your droids because that would be unfair to BEs.
I completely understand the balancing reason for wanting to lean towards a DH profession, but that presupposses that the underlying purpose of DE is to create combat droids, which is a horrible assumption in my opinion, and is the reason most members of the DE profession are so oppossed to the idea of a DH.
Theconcern is that once that is done, the balance argument will then be turned the other direction and no new non-combat related enhancement will be added to the profession (and the existing problems with the profession's current non-combat functionality will ever be fixed).
Now we're being told that DH is needed because otherwise uber-combat droids will become unbalancing. Next, we'll be told, "now that you've got the ability to craft all these uber-combat droids, it will be unbalancing to enhance the non-combat related functions of the droids you can make." THAT is the fear and the concern I think.
I think what people want to see is a plan that encompasses plans for additional non-combat droid functionality and that reflects the DE community's majority opinion that combat is a secondary function of the droids we create!!!
Focusing on DH as the immediate goal assumes that combat is the primary function of droids.
Virtanis wrote:
Who knows? Maybe we'll get another entirely different flavor of empty promises, failed deadlines, and myopic design decisions!
I'll drink to that! *cheers*
GamerProX wrote:
::sighs as he watches the fantasy of Destroyer Droids being crushed::
Why don't you go take a trip to Lok and run up to some Droidekas with open arms?
The problem with Droid Certs is that it would raise the combat bar and there would have to be a lot of rule changes.
That's not supposed to be a problem ... it's supposed to be exactly what your In Concept forum is meant to prevent becoming a problem. By discussing these issues with the entire community early in the development process, you don't end up half a mile down the wrong road and wasting a bunch of engineering resource you can't afford to waste on backtracking and going in the right direction.
You were supposed to have learned this lesson months ago. You keep telling us you did. Quit telling us and show us ...
Why is this not a topic in the In Concept or In Development forum? This is clearly not a Live issue.
And that made sense how?
Virtanis wrote:
GamerProX wrote:
::sighs as he watches the fantasy of Destroyer Droids being crushed::
Why don't you go take a trip to Lok and run up to some Droidekas with open arms?
That is an awesome idea! An optional skill box! "You can either learn to use this special weapon, or this special combat droid, but not both." I love it!
marsx wrote:
Certs for combat droids would work, but only as horizontal, optional skill boxes that appear at certain elite levels of otherexisting professions, requiring the expenditure of skill points.
I just figured I'd point out this suggestion. It is one of my favorites.
KzinKiller wrote:
The problem with Droid Certs is that it would raise the combat bar and there would have to be a lot of rule changes.
That's not supposed to be a problem ... it's supposed to be exactly what your In Concept forum is meant to prevent becoming a problem. By discussing these issues with the entire community early in the development process, you don't end up half a mile down the wrong road and wasting a bunch of engineering resource you can't afford to waste on backtracking and going in the right direction.
You were supposed to have learned this lesson months ago. You keep telling us you did. Quit telling us and show us ...
Why is this not a topic in the In Concept or In Development forum? This is clearly not a Live issue.
This is such an important point.Very well said.