Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Please help me understand your change of heart.
Just to clarify how I see Certs working:
Utility Droid Certs: Gained automatically in almost all existing professions, and with a usage that matches the profession.
Combat Droid Certs: Gained as an optional, horizontal skill in various combat professions, but at a skill point cost to maintain balance. The optional combat droid certs should have no bearing on the mastering of a given profession, but only serve to enhance that profession, at a cost. (This can be done textually, rather than actually adding a new box graphic to the skill tree window .. just let the player know they CAN get the certification at a trainer or a DE, at a given skill point cost).
Lodacai
Thunderheart wrote:
How about you pull together some information about how and in what manner it is possible for DROID ENGINEERS to use DROIDS?
I spoke to Blair about all the pain on this issue and we're going to have Runsabre put up an uberpost this afternoon.
I've got a bad feeling about this.
Lodacai
Lodacai wrote:
But I agree, Certs for Combat Droids scattered throughout the existing professions will imbalance combat across the boards, UNLESS additional skill points are required to be spent to attain those certifications.
Lodacai
Then you aren't thinking about it very clearly.
Putting droid certs in ALL professions - meaning that a Master Chef gets the same droid a Master Rifleman does, or a Master Dancer gets the same droid that a Master Pistoleer gets - is perfect balance.
As I said above, the combat classes will eat up the difference - the droids will never match the power of an elite weapn in a Master's hands.
The only "balance" change is that non-combat professions (Entertainers, Medics, and Crafters) will have a fighting chance when running out to harvesters, or actually getting to experience content like themeparks without being a tag-along that just slows down the group.
Again, this is but one of the several types of droids we are asking for. Taking the time to try and flesh a whole new profession out of the USAGE of these droids (just the usage - not even the construction) is taking away from DE's and we will never be anything more than we were at launch - except now we haggle with a few DH's who want to buy droids for 1cpu...
It's just not time. Save it for the space expansion. We don't need level 99 droids. A droideka at level 30 or 40 for masters of an elite profession, and another probot at level 15-20 would be great.
If anyone thinks we will be controlling fleets of droidekas before the space expansion (or even after)they needto have their head examined. A whole new profession based on the buying of a couple of droids isn't going to work - do you think anyone is going to let you have more than three anything without crying "POKE-pet!" or riling up the CH's?? Come on. It's a nightmare - who wants to go through the nerf-pets wars again? I don't.
If done evenly, and correctly, combat droid certifications could add a nice level of gameplay for everyone that adds to the SW in SW. Adding a DH profession at this point will doom droids to being nothing more than a novelty until at least the space expansion.
Many of us vet DE's have been hanging on for a half-year or more for things to change - if this is how it's going to change, I think we've wasted a monumental amount of time.
Audio
GamerProX wrote:
Cause its the only choice possible?
ya, so were camps to call vehicles. It's the only possible choice if you ignore all others.
GamerProX wrote:
Cause its the only choice possible?
It is not the only possible option. Personally I am in favour of a DH class as well and see the DE-DH/BE-CH parallels a lot (A BE doesn't just make pets for CH, but also a lot of other things like food supplements and clothing bonuses, just as we make other utility droids). However, I do recognise that by far the majority of the DE community does not want a DH profession.
On further thought, perhaps we could go both ways - a DH class for heavy combat droids (DL 30 and above), all the rest of the combat professions get low (DL10-D15) and mid(DL15-25) droids as part of their basic system. Things a DH class could add are the ability to modify combat parameters on the fly (defense v attack, shield regen (ie divert power away from weapons to shields ie intant stat migration equivalent). Group tactics, attack speed etc.
TH
if you put DH into the game that means we'll now have to spend 30 skill points just to ge able to pull out a droid when away from a city
15 for novice scout to make a basic camp
and 15 for novice DH to use a droid
this idea sux
Thunderheart wrote:
How about you pull together some information about how and in what manner it is possible for DROID ENGINEERS to use DROIDS?
I spoke to Blair about all the pain on this issue and we're going to have Runsabre put up an uberpost this afternoon.
You know what, man. I know you have a crappy job to do at times like his (otherwise it must be cool). I realize the balance issues are not your fault. But I do fault you for the number of times you've promised us particular threads and never delivered.
In Real Life, I never make promises I can't or won't keep and when circumstances arise such that I must break my promises I let those who I have aggrieved know that I accept responsibility for my actions. Or I tell them "look, I'm sorry I have to miss my deadline to you because of X reason.'
I think that is basic professionalism and courtesy -- the same has not been extended here WAY too many times. If you're not sure you can deliver, that's totally fine. Just don't dangle carrots before us never to even drop them from the table. I don't think this is asking for much.
We're not all children on this board. And even if we were we'd deserve the same amount of respect.
Thunderheart wrote:
grommond wrote:
Thunderheart,
I think you are writing off the cert system too soon.
This isn't up to me. Im not making the decision.I dont know what decision the dev team will make but I have told them that the community:
- Clearly doesnt like the idea of a DH profession
- Prefers the idea of Droid Certifications
The problem with Droid Certs is that it would raise the combat bar and there would have to be a lot of rule changes. I'm working with the team now to pull together some information on all the problems a cert system would bring. Either myself or Runsabre will post on it today.
Thunderheart,
Please forgive me, but your post sounds like a parent patronizing their child. How about coming to us with a workable proposal, sure list the issues, but also the benefits. It sounds like you are going to do a smear job on the cert system rather than give it careful consideration. Take a week if you need to, but don't throw together a hasty post which only spreads FUD.
Oh and please don't compare DH / DE with CH / BE. A CH can get his own high level pets without a BE. Having the DE be a merge of the two is OK as the DE is still spending lots of points to get access to the droids. Then you just need to extend the droids (via a well though out, capped cert system) to combat professions. There seems to be good conversation on how to do this on the boards.
Short answer:
Give DEs the ability to make and use the most powerful droids in the game. If you don't want to gives us Droidekas outright, make it a RIS-like quest which might be more consistent with the time period we are in (Droidekas are old technology).
Give elite combat masteries the ability to use powerful droids as well, capped at one droid, and tiered based on profession difficulty (points expended).
Thanks,
Ywi (MDE)
BlueMorgoth wrote:
GamerProX wrote:
Cause its the only choice possible?
It is not the only possible option. Personally I am in favour of a DH class as well and see the DE-DH/BE-CH parallels a lot (A BE doesn't just make pets for CH, but also a lot of other things like food supplements and clothing bonuses, just as we make other utility droids). However, I do recognise that by far the majority of the DE community does not want a DH profession.
On further thought, perhaps we could go both ways - a DH class for heavy combat droids (DL 30 and above), all the rest of the combat professions get low (DL10-D15) and mid(DL15-25) droids as part of their basic system. Things a DH class could add are the ability to modify combat parameters on the fly (defense v attack, shield regen (ie divert power away from weapons to shields ie intant stat migration equivalent). Group tactics, attack speed etc.
This is a smart guy
GamerProX wrote:
This is so silly. a Cert system would doom us to level 20-25 droids for the rest of the game, when we all know Destroyer Droids were far better than that. And AGAIN if you do a Cert System, your still building droids only the people who have the Cert can use! And thats what shocks meso much, your against a DH cause they get to use "Heavy" Combat Droids, but your only with a guy who has the Certs getting your strongest Droid. Makes no sense.
DUDE!!! If you want a CL50 pet...(grab your pen...here it comes) GO CH!!!! We do not need 60 professions that all do the same thing, and DO NOT need more than on CH profession.
The certification idea we are advocating is filling a niche...certain players can get a SINGLE medium pet, without taking up CH, if they meet certain requirements. This is no different than the current faction pet system, except that it works based on character advancement instead of faction advancement.
Thunderheart wrote:
I spoke to Blair about all the pain on this issue and we're going to have Runsabre put up an uberpost this afternoon.
Uberpost.
I know uber is a common MMORG term now, but i fear when a german term is being used by TH.
AudioOrgana wrote:
Lodacai wrote:
But I agree, Certs for Combat Droids scattered throughout the existing professions will imbalance combat across the boards, UNLESS additional skill points are required to be spent to attain those certifications.
Lodacai
Then you aren't thinking about it very clearly.
Putting droid certs in ALL professions - meaning that a Master Chef gets the same droid a Master Rifleman does, or a Master Dancer gets the same droid that a Master Pistoleer gets - is perfect balance.
As I said above, the combat classes will eat up the difference - the droids will never match the power of an elite weapn in a Master's hands.
The only "balance" change is that non-combat professions (Entertainers, Medics, and Crafters) will have a fighting chance when running out to harvesters, or actually getting to experience content like themeparks without being a tag-along that just slows down the group.
Again, this is but one of the several types of droids we are asking for. Taking the time to try and flesh a whole new profession out of the USAGE of these droids (just the usage - not even the construction) is taking away from DE's and we will never be anything more than we were at launch - except now we haggle with a few DH's who want to buy droids for 1cpu...
It's just not time. Save it for the space expansion. We don't need level 99 droids. A droideka at level 30 or 40 for masters of an elite profession, and another probot at level 15-20 would be great.
If anyone thinks we will be controlling fleets of droidekas before the space expansion (or even after)they needto have their head examined. A whole new profession based on the buying of a couple of droids isn't going to work - do you think anyone is going to let you have more than three anything without crying "POKE-pet!" or riling up the CH's?? Come on. It's a nightmare - who wants to go through the nerf-pets wars again? I don't.
If done evenly, and correctly, combat droid certifications could add a nice level of gameplay for everyone that adds to the SW in SW. Adding a DH profession at this point will doom droids to being nothing more than a novelty until at least the space expansion.
Many of us vet DE's have been hanging on for a half-year or more for things to change - if this is how it's going to change, I think we've wasted a monumental amount of time.
Audio
I beg to disagree. It WILL imbalance PVE, such mobs and NPCs not getting combat droids across the board to match the 300,000 players that suddenly get combat droids at no additional skill point cost. Not to sound flippant, but I don't think 20 Master Chefs taking out Krayts with their combat droids is a part of their plans. 
Lodacai