Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Sodan's Hybrid DE Proposal
Good idea. And where is Drashky-doodle anyways?
TheRealTK421 wrote:
Sodan,
My best suggestion at this point (since you're the 'father' of this plan) is to compile what you have, and what's been added by others, and create a ver. 2.x plan.
On a side-note..................................................................where's Drashk?
>We have to speak the devs language. That's why any proposal needs to be grounded in skillpoints expended for the pet levels which is what I have tried to do. I welcome additional suggestions on how to do that.<
Here, is an example. Im sure it could use some tweaking. And I cant claim to have an understanding of just what max level corresponds to just what skillpoint cost. The values can be tweeked. But I like the placement.
Skill Box | Skill Points| Max Level| Max Stored| Max Out |
|| Base 10|Base 5 |Base 1|
Novice DE|35|+5 [15]|+2(7) |+1 { 2 }|
'DC' 1 Box |+5/40 |+5 [20]|+2(9)|{ 2 } |
'DC' 2 Box| +4 /44 |+5 [25]| +2(11)|{ 2 } |
'DC' 3 Box| +3 /47 | +5[30]|+2(13) |{ 2 } |
'DC' 4 Box |+2/49|+5[35]| +2(15) |{ 2 } |
Master DE |+43 / 92|+12[47]| +3(18)| + 1 { 3 }|
Master Artisan 77|+12[17]| +3(8)| + 1 |
Maximum Cert140|[59]| ( 21 ) |{ 4 } |
As it is, you see, if the lev 35 cert at DC4 is worth an equivelant 49 skillpoints, then not many are going to pay about 3 times that skill cost, to hoard to DE to get another 24 levels of droid combat power.
the max drod level available could also be a factor here. If max droid level makeable was 35, and max total cert 70, the the 'combats' would be satisfied with one combat droid at DC4 and master DEs could have 2 for about 3 times the cost.
But I invision eventually all sorts of droid so that the 'number out' becomes a combat advantage with maby one combat droid and some other 'support' droids,
I know Im maby dreaming. But I'll have tried at least. (alot of my hopes for droid individuality were nerfed with the droid 'stimpacks'.)
Message Edited by Boeda on 03-06-2004 02:23 PM
/bow
Ellewen wrote:
This is all just talk. I laugh and enjoy.
Hehehehe...you must be a masochist if you love to suffer.
People like our beloved Jenden would love nothing to change in the DE profession.
I'm really waiting to see what Kollos, G., Audio and.....ohhh...Drashk, think about this. Jenden wants us to change, I'm sure...how could he not?
WHY?!
Because hes on of the very few DEs who enjoy selling worthless droids to the ignorent.
I prefer to sell to the unconsciouslyignorant.
While our profession remains stagnent.
Make DEs a combat/crafter class and make the game DIFFERENT!
This should have been the plan all along, going way back. If not, the only way to make it different would have been to have it be even more 'techie' than it is now. That's not gonna make it qualify as "fun" for many people. Being able to own/use a Battle droid or a Droideka will.
keep it the way it is and lose interest.
oh how I love this stuff.
You must be one serious glutton for punishment. Good form, good sir or madam!!
Respectfully,
Ellewen wrote:
This is all just talk. I laugh and enjoy. People like our beloved Jenden would love nothing to change in the DE profession.
WHY?!
Because hes on of the very few DEs who enjoy selling worthless droids to the ignorent. While our profession remains stagnent.
Make DEs a combat/crafter class and make the game DIFFERENT! keep it the way it is and lose interest.
oh how I love this stuff.
Jenden, pls don't reply to this. There is no need. We're trying to build something here, man, and so far Jenden has contributed. We've yet to hear anything constuctive from you.
Just let us have a discussion; join if you will. The other option is to just chuck it all and roll over for the "Droid Invasion". The devs have done the work, people. Let get them to add 25-35 lvl combat droids into the game that players can access with the right skillpoints and pre-reques. That would be cool.
The 'sticky' points seem to be what combat abilities to require, and what CL droids. I'm not sure that they would be willing to (or could) change the current mechanics of skills and pre-requisites. But there is a solution.
What could work is the addition of skills similar to the CH tree. All of the '+ droid levels' would be contained in DE (one tree, or primarily one tree). The '+ additional combat droid' would not appear in DE, but would be contained in a combat skill box like ranged support IV.
Flexible, and similar to what is already implemented with CH. If the devs want to add another droid to MDE, drop a '+ additional combat droid' there along with a couple more levels.
Javac wrote:
Whew, quite a lot of reading to catch up on. It seems that so far most everyone thinks that adding combat droids somewhere in the DE tree is workable. With some possible re-requisites involved, there would be an additional skillpoint cost to obtain CL25-35 combat droids hopefully satifying the devs.
The 'sticky' points seem to be what combat abilities to require, and what CL droids. I'm not sure that they would be willing to (or could) change the current mechanics of skills and pre-requisites. But there is a solution.
What could work is the addition of skills similar to the CH tree. All of the '+ droid levels' would be contained in DE (one tree, or primarily one tree). The '+ additional combat droid' would not appear in DE, but would be contained in a combat skill box like ranged support IV.
Flexible, and similar to what is already implemented with CH. If the devs want to add another droid to MDE, drop a '+ additional combat droid' there along with a couple more levels.
This is an AWESOME suggestion! The certs would go into 0040 DE, but players would need Ranged Support 4 for the +1 Combat droids. The devs have already said one combat droid max for all players so more than one is out of bounds; more than one stored combat droid would be fine and perhaps could be put in along the 0040 Tree. The great thing about this proposal is it does not change the way the existing system operates.
Under Javac's variant of this plan, 0040 DE would have the droid levels, but the 0004 Marksman box would give players +1 combat droid to use. Thus, DEs would have the certs but could not use the droids without having Ranged Support4 because they would not have the +1 combat droid bonus.
Excellent suggestion! I'm going to add this as a variant.
I have been following this thread and wanted to make a couple of comments :
1) Yes, it's a great idea. If the Devs are open to this sort of suggestion I would definately endorse it.
2) There has been debate about changing exsisting profession prerequisites - but we have been told that is technically impossible under the current system (Drashk made a detailed post about this some time ago, which made a lot of sense). *I FULLY* understand that the system proposed here is independent of changing the base pre-requisites for DE, I am just pointing this out because later in the discussion someone was asking if it was even possible.
Changing the existing prerequisites is not possible, however a new system as proposed could possibly work, IMHO. Although I think the tree above is a bit optimistic (specificly in relation to stored droids), it would be nice to know if a) we are on the right track in terms of balance, and b) if such a thing is even possible or on the table.
I fear that they are going to say, "It's too late - you had your chance" - but those utility modules are not enough to keep me as a DE after publish 8 - this very wellcould.
Audio
AudioOrgana wrote:
I have been following this thread and wanted to make a couple of comments :
1) Yes, it's a great idea. If the Devs are open to this sort of suggestion I would definately endorse it.
2) There has been debate about changing exsisting profession prerequisites - but we have been told that is technically impossible under the current system (Drashk made a detailed post about this some time ago, which made a lot of sense). *I FULLY* understand that the system proposed here is independent of changing the base pre-requisites for DE, I am just pointing this out because later in the discussion someone was asking if it was even possible.
Changing the existing prerequisites is not possible, however a new system as proposed could possibly work, IMHO. Although I think the tree above is a bit optimistic (specificly in relation to stored droids), it would be nice to know if a) we are on the right track in terms of balance, and b) if such a thing is even possible or on the table.
I fear that they are going to say, "It's too late - you had your chance" - but those utility modules are not enough to keep me as a DE after publish 8 - this very wellcould.
Audio
Thanks, Audio. You answered my question: changing the pre-reqs to a profession is not something the devs will do. As you saw from the posts, however, this proposal avoids that problem all together by placing the ability to control one combat droid in the Range Support 4 box and the Droid certs in 0040 DE.
To be clear for everyone: The additional reqs are on the ability to control droids not to advance in DE.
This system would be similar to two existing systems: the most obvious is the CH system where ability to contol pets is controlled by skill boxes. The second is the weapon cert system which prevents players from using weapons effectively if they lack the certs from the skill boxes.
AudioOrgana wrote:
Changing the existing prerequisites is not possible, however a new system as proposed could possibly work, IMHO.
Virtanis wrote:
AudioOrgana wrote:
Changing the existing prerequisites is not possible, however a new system as proposed could possibly work, IMHO.
Exactly... and because nobody has control over >CL10 droids right now, this is the perfect opportunity to implement a system that allows subtle andthoughtfulprerequisites for these droids.
I also think it could address one of the core problems/issues with the SWG skill system - it's so frickin' balanced it makes it imbalanced.
I'll give you an example (with all due respect to those that play the professions - and I will try to only talk about professions I have mastered myself) : it costs the same amount of skill points to Master Merchant as it does to Master Pistoleer.
The system attempts to compensate for this by the various prerequisites - but in many cases we see where this is, shall we say, sub-optimal (BH, or smuggler, who has skills as prereqs they will never use in that profession).
This could lead to other more dynamic skill system enhancements, like allowing someone who wants to become a Smuggler get Business IV instead of Unarmed IV. It wouldn't impact those that already have the prerequisite, but would give an option to change if they so desired. It would help avoid the "cookie-cutter" syndrome we see today.
As far as DE's go, I really believe that with this system everyone could live comfortably, and it would fill out our tree with more than redundant modules. It satisifies the requirements set forth by the Devs, the crafters who don't want any part in it, the people that just want to control the droids, and the ability for DE's to use their own wares.
Audio
Virtanis wrote:
AudioOrgana wrote:
Changing the existing prerequisites is not possible, however a new system as proposed could possibly work, IMHO.
Exactly... and because nobody has control over >CL10 droids right now, this is the perfect opportunity to implement a system that allows subtle andthoughtfulprerequisites for these droids.
I agree, Virt. Ironically, while this proposal is a REJECTION of any new DH profession, it might AT SOME LATER POINT fit nicely with an elite-elite profession that resembles the Droid Handler.
Why? This proposal only introduces 25-35 droid lvls into the game. Down the line, you can see a carefully thought out Droid Handler profession that 1) increases the number of combat droids called at once and the number of droid lvls, 2) has combat bonuses to add to melee or ranged attack and defense, 3) breaks new creative ground like being a squad leader for a pack of droids or the leader of heavy droid artilery units for GWC purposes.
Again, to be clear, this proposal is a REJECTION of the DH profession. It is an alternative that gives us cool new droid today. But you can see it breaks new ground in its approach to combat droid pre-reqs while still fitting in with the existing "box" system.
Changing existing pre-requisites is not impossible, only difficult. As I have said before, if a suitable time delay was introduced to allow the pre-requisites to be obtained (if desired) there would be no problem...but that is a side discussion because:
The joy of this proposal is that thereis no such problem.
The plan as it stands is now being supported by the many and varied 'cults' within DE *smile*
It seems to me that the only issue is how much of a combat pre-requisite is considered 'enough'..and I think that the suggested values ARE enough, but the Devs may wish to 'tweak' it a bit..so no problem with that either.
As to previous comments about it 'being too late'..its never too late in a Massively Multiplayer..whatever the newest phrase is.The thing takes on a new life of its own, and morphs all the time..it is the nature of the beast..and in that, it is truly good.
I expect that Runesabre is looking over all of this in a Godly like fashion..and I am sure he can smell the bacon here..its a new Consensus..unique of it's kind. Does he have the dollars to do it? I dont know. Would he like to? I am sure he would, because for all the flack the Devs get, I know they do actually want us to have fun.
So, lets keep up the positive. One last try eh folks?
Gratz Sodan, so much to gain, so much to lose.
I really do hope nobody derails this..it would be really unforgivable.