Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Sodan's Hybrid DE Proposal
I fought a Droideka today..actually several, I thought I should tell you that.
/bump
That has really emerged from this rare and fruitful advanced droid brainstorm we just had in this thread. I think this is a unique approach in that we did the math and weighed the issues, compared them to existing game systems and yet suggested a sufficiently broad proposal that leaves room for dev tweaking. Others have done so, too, let it not be forgotten, but there have been so few strenious objections to this one.
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
Changing existing pre-requisites is not impossible, only difficult. As I have said before, if a suitable time delay was introduced to allow the pre-requisites to be obtained (if desired) there would be no problem...but that is a side discussion because:
The joy of this proposal is that thereis no such problem.
Yeah,at TKs suggestion, I am going to re-draft the proposal as Version 2.0 -- WITHOUT my name. I'll state the proposal as a basic premise, with several variants and with a rational/justification section.
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
It seems to me that the only issue is how much of a combat pre-requisite is considered 'enough'..and I think that the suggested values ARE enough, but the Devs may wish to 'tweak' it a bit..so no problem with that either.
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
The plan as it stands is now being supported by the many and varied 'cults' within DE *smile*
I expect that Runesabre is looking over all of this in a Godly like fashion..and I am sure he can smell the bacon here..its a new Consensus..unique of it's kind. Does he have the dollars to do it? I dont know. Would he like to? I am sure he would, because for all the flack the Devs get, I know they do actually want us to have fun.
I hate to say the C word, but it sounds as if we have it. It should be noted that MANY objections were lodged as speculation as to whether the devs would or would not be able/willing to implement the plan. FEW were the objections to the plan in substance, but they are duly noted herein. Indeed, many substantive comments were turned into proposal tweaks and variantsand in the end many people who voiced concerns ultimately support for some version of the proposal; famously, Gribnitz. lol!
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
So, lets keep up the positive. One last try eh folks?
Gratz Sodan, so much to gain, so much to lose.
I really do hope nobody derails this..it would be really unforgivable.
Positivity has sproutedfruit. This is the product of the community; we have really come together here. Its not a Sodan thing. Derailing this plan or its variants, I fear, will give us -- gasp -- the Droid Invasion as currently planned.
So stop waffling and post version 2 you daft old DE
Here, this thread ends I hope...welcome version 2 people please
Message Edited by Shian_Tavkin on 03-06-2004 10:04 PM
AudioOrgana wrote:
I also think it could address one of the core problems/issues with the SWG skill system - it's so frickin' balanced it makes it imbalanced.
I'll give you an example (with all due respect to those that play the professions - and I will try to only talk about professions I have mastered myself) : it costs the same amount of skill points to Master Merchant as it does to Master Pistoleer.
The system attempts to compensate for this by the various prerequisites - but in many cases we see where this is, shall we say, sub-optimal (BH, or smuggler, who has skills as prereqs they will never use in that profession).
This could lead to other more dynamic skill system enhancements, like allowing someone who wants to become a Smuggler get Business IV instead of Unarmed IV. It wouldn't impact those that already have the prerequisite, but would give an option to change if they so desired. It would help avoid the "cookie-cutter" syndrome we see today.
As far as DE's go, I really believe that with this system everyone could live comfortably, and it would fill out our tree with more than redundant modules. It satisifies the requirements set forth by the Devs, the crafters who don't want any part in it, the people that just want to control the droids, and the ability for DE's to use their own wares.
Audio
Agreed, changes in the skill system would be a good idea (Giving people a choice of x trees from a selectionto master instead of just the pre-defined ones)not only would this help in breaking cookie cutters, but it would also lead the way to having multipe types of experience valid for buying certain boxes (In the example of smuggler above, giving smugglers the option to buy their underworld tree with either Pistol OR Merchant XP would make sense)
While restructuring the Exp system like this would appear difficult at first glance, but wouldn't be as hard as might first appear (Certainly not in programming terms anyway). Sorry for going a bit off topic there
I maby did bnot express this well before.
I am in favor of a 'Hybrid DE' cert. But,
I am Against, it requireing a combat proffession.
Intuitively, rifle or unarmed, whatever, combatskill, is Not going to teach you anything about handling droids.
I say if you want to increase the skill cost, 'distribute' the cert. Or lower the cert to an E4 ramp one.
Also, 'checkerwise'. The skillpoint picture would be the same if you put a more limited 'DC' branch in DE and distributed a cert box in whatever say ranged 4. Now, thats stacking combat checkers on a combat box.
So, I guess if you dont want to distribute to Master artisan box, and Master DE box, I suggest going with just a more limited cert in DE, from arts/E4. Then other cert schemes could be added to that if nessisary if needed.
One reason I an concerned about this is it would limit freedom of template. Why would a Droid handler have to be melee, or Pistol or ranged. If you require one, you exlude the other. Or, they may want to be a CH/DH with no fighting skills. Or craft oriented, whatever.
Boeda wrote:
I say if you want to increase the skill cost, 'distribute' the cert. Or lower the cert to an E4 ramp one.
So, I guess if you dont want to distribute to Master artisan box, and Master DE box, I suggest going with just a more limited cert in DE, from arts/E4. Then other cert schemes could be added to that if nessisary if needed.
One reason I an concerned about this is it would limit freedom of template. Why would a Droid handler have to be melee, or Pistol or ranged. If you require one, you exlude the other. Or, they may want to be a CH/DH with no fighting skills. Or craft oriented, whatever.
Gribnitz wrote:
Boeda wrote:
I say if you want to increase the skill cost, 'distribute' the cert. Or lower the cert to an E4 ramp one.
So, I guess if you dont want to distribute to Master artisan box, and Master DE box, I suggest going with just a more limited cert in DE, from arts/E4. Then other cert schemes could be added to that if nessisary if needed.
One reason I an concerned about this is it would limit freedom of template. Why would a Droid handler have to be melee, or Pistol or ranged. If you require one, you exlude the other. Or, they may want to be a CH/DH with no fighting skills. Or craft oriented, whatever.
If you put the certs in ENG 4, there is no pain in skill point expenditure to gain the combat droids. ENG 4 isthe only requirementto be a DE, so people that want to climb the profession only need to go up ENG 4 and bingo they get the droids with only limited points spent. Way to easy....Now if you made it MA was required to be a Droid Engineer, that would be a different story. That would justify the skill point cost to get the higher level pets.
Ranged support makes sense because in most instances you are going to be doing a support role. Your lvl 25-35 combat droid is not going to be taking down a Bull Rancor or Krayt by iteself. You are going to need PC's with good combat skills to take those down and your droid is only there to help out.
I agree Grib.
Everyone vote on the Revised Hybrid DE Proposal thread:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=69111
TheWoody wrote:
4) There has been no official poll, but it seems that majority of DEs here are in support of trying to push thisas an addition to Pub-8. I would like to ask that once this plan moves to the next stage in the following few days, that attacks on it are kept to nill on the matter. As said, without nothing but full clear support from the community, things will pass into obscurity and be whitewashed by the Devs.
As such, if you have reservations or doubts then make suggestions (preferably in this thread rather than the full posting one requested above) and all efforts will be made to try rectify your concerns. But remember, it is desired that this is pushed forward. At no time should we sacrafice what little momentum we can generate in being bogged down over an argument over semantics or hypotheticals. I'm not suggesting we don't examine thoroughly; but I am saying that without a general overalldesire by the players to push forward and clean up the problems later (The whole reason they have TC is for cleaning up problems) then it will never take off.
I am behind this proposal 100 percent, but I think it's important that we not get too excited about it until and unless SOE decides to implement it.
I hate to be cynical, but there are two ways the devs could go. The first would mean more work for someone. The second path would mean a red name would have to type less than a hundred words into a reply, and then the proposal is dead afterwards, with no more work needed from the dev team.
Mightion wrote:
I am behind this proposal 100 percent, but I think it's important that we not get too excited about it until and unless SOE decides to implement it.
I hate to be cynical, but there are two ways the devs could go. The first would mean more work for someone. The second path would mean a red name would have to type less than a hundred words into a reply, and then the proposal is dead afterwards, with no more work needed from the dev team.
I disagree. I believe this allows the devs to make use of A LOT of work they have already done.
1) Look at the combat modules system -- seems silly to implement if the only change is an improved probot. That system is there for making kick ass higher lvl combat modules.
2) The stims too: According to Jenden who is testing on TC Stim Cs and Ds were probably intended for higher lvl combat droids because a good B will heal a probot completely.
3) New droid art -- its in the game on TC: Battle Droids and Super Battle Droids
The work has been done.
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
I disagree. I believe this allows the devs to make use of A LOT of work they have already done.
1) Look at the combat modules system -- seems silly to implement if the only change is an improved probot. That system is there for making kick ass higher lvl combat modules.
2) The stims too: According to Jenden who is testing on TC Stim Cs and Ds were probably intended for higher lvl combat droids because a good B will heal a probot completely.
3) New droid art -- its in the game on TC: Battle Droids and Super Battle Droids
The work has been done.
Fair enough. I see the logic in that, but cynicism does not require logic.
Do you agree that getting all excited over it is premature, in the least? Seems to me we've had enough crushing disappointments lately.
Way too early to tell. What's the alternative though? if we don't push hard, its droid "invasion" as planned and that's not too great.
Mightion wrote:
Fair enough. I see the logic in that, but cynicism does not require logic.
Do you agree that getting all excited over it is premature, in the least? Seems to me we've had enough crushing disappointments lately.