Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Sodan's Hybrid DE Proposal
TheRealTK421 wrote:
For this reason alone, I almost feel like part of the equation needs to be changing the req on DE to MA instead of just Eng 4. This means a longer grind (and more skill points invested) to get there. It's pretty well known that an MDE is among the most heavily dependent upon another profession (in MA) in the game. The additional nice part is that this DOES fulfill part of the Devs' requirement for the 'fix' by making sure that there is more skill point investment required to attain the "checkers".
I agree too that DE should have get a prereq on MA instead of Eng 4 but now so many time after the releases there are MDE that are not MA and SOE could not change the prereq because of those DE , they will not know what to do with those peoples as it will be unfair to automatically surrender their DE skills. that isalmost the same problems with adding a prereq to the DE tree.
By the way,if a branch in marksman become a prereq to MDE what to do with the DE who do not have it ?
So the marksman branch should not be a strongprereq but a set of skill usefull to unleash the full powers of droids...
/bow
HawkCormyr wrote:
TheRealTK421 wrote:
For this reason alone, I almost feel like part of the equation needs to be changing the req on DE to MA instead of just Eng 4. This means a longer grind (and more skill points invested) to get there. It's pretty well known that an MDE is among the most heavily dependent upon another profession (in MA) in the game. The additional nice part is that this DOES fulfill part of the Devs' requirement for the 'fix' by making sure that there is more skill point investment required to attain the "checkers".
I agree too that DE should have get a prereq on MA instead of Eng 4 but now so many time after the releases there are MDE that are not MA and SOE could not change the prereq because of those DE , they will not know what to do with those peoples as it will be unfair to automatically surrender their DE skills. that isalmost the same problems with adding a prereq to the DE tree.
I think it's possible to 'grandfather' these folks into the new system. Basically, if one is not an MA but is an MDE (and they wanted to use a combat droid described via the plan), they'd see a system message:
"You must first acquire Master Artisan to access this item" or some such.
Basically, just a check to see if MA is there or not. They'd get to keep all the DE skills they had attained but they couldn't 'unlock' until MA was reached.
I'm sure it's possible to code in a grandfathering system for adding MA as a prereq. for a DE hybrid class.
I think the only way that the Devs will consider this, however, is if we can add enough skill/money/time costs to the plan such that it satisfies their requirements.
Respectfully,
Oh, in case you didn't decipher this from my other posts, Yes, I am up for this. Just as long as the droid levels stick around what is proposed.
- No 'Grand Fathering' !
- No New Coding !
Where have I heared this idea before ?
HawkCormyr wrote:
TheRealTK421 wrote:
For this reason alone, I almost feel like part of the equation needs to be changing the req on DE to MA instead of just Eng 4. This means a longer grind (and more skill points invested) to get there. It's pretty well known that an MDE is among the most heavily dependent upon another profession (in MA) in the game. The additional nice part is that this DOES fulfill part of the Devs' requirement for the 'fix' by making sure that there is more skill point investment required to attain the "checkers".
I agree too that DE should have get a prereq on MA instead of Eng 4 but now so many time after the releases there are MDE that are not MA and SOE could not change the prereq because of those DE , they will not know what to do with those peoples as it will be unfair to automatically surrender their DE skills. that isalmost the same problems with adding a prereq to the DE tree.
By the way,if a branch in marksman become a prereq to MDE what to do with the DE who do not have it ?
So the marksman branch should not be a strongprereq but a set of skill usefull to unleash the full powers of droids...
Thanks for the feedback. Does anyone else recall if the devs have specifically commented on this point? I want to find out what they said about adding pre-reqs to an established class.
TK's, suggestion on MA might work -- grandfathering existing DEs -- but I'll note that many "pure crafters" hate the idea of requiring MA. I am for it though. If people are opposed to that, pls speak up now. Some minds may have changed now that the "Droid Invasion" is the alternate.
Its important to note that the plan I have proposed only creates new pre-reqs for combat droid use, not for crafting any of the new droids. Thus, an MDE would never have to get the pre-req if they never planned on using the droids. This solution avoids the problem of having to latch on pre-reqs to an existing userbase of DEs.
Gron_DM wrote:
err overall a nice swetup only thing that looks questionable is the 0/0/0/4 of the DE, as a dabbler i dont think blueprints is appropriate. but overall, the idea is sound. why not make it 0/4/4/0 DE and 0/0/0/4 marksman or same with brawler? i dont know if the devs would even consider it though. i think it would be better to make DE a stand alone CH also hybrid if it was to be done at all. and i dont really like that idea but there the option of an outside profession to use droids in universally not well accepted.
Thanks for the comments. The proposal is for the droid certs to be in 0040 DE and for the droid stims to be removed from that tree and placed in another line.
Allowing people to dabble creates a market for combat droids and stims because most dabblers who are hardcore combat types will avoid spending points that don't give them any combat bonuses.
Boeda wrote:
Silly Willies !
Just put part of the (stackable) cert, in the master Arts box !
Make the arts part worth the arts skillpoints.
The DE part worth the DE skillpoints.
The sum of the two, the total cert, worth the 140 skillpints !
- No 'Grand Fathering' !
- No New Coding !
Where have I heared this idea before ?
This is an interesting idea. The best argument for it is that it substantially ups the amount of skill points that people need to spend to get the droid certs in the DE tree.
The only problems are that MA does not include combat skills (which is fine with me, but others will complain that there is no combat aspect to justify the combat certs) and that the increase in points might put off dabblers. Remember, we want dabblers so we can sell to them.
Under this variant (making MA the prereq), remember that Master Aartisan costs 77 points -- that's the same amount of skillpoints needed to make 0044 CH and get +36 max pet lvls and +4 stored pets.We'd have to put the droid certs in the Novice DE box (which costs 6 points). Any thoughts on this?
Gribnitz wrote:
Oh, in case you didn't decipher this from my other posts, Yes, I am up for this. Just as long as the droid levels stick around what is proposed.
You asked for it:
/tickle Gribnitz
>The only problems are that MA does not include combat skills (which is fine with me, but others will complain that there is no combat aspect to justify the combat certs).<
I think droid usage is more intuitively linked to crafting than combat. Like a computer designer would both need to know how to use computers to design them well. And know how to use them better, by designing them.
>and that the increase in points might put off dabblers. Remember, we want dabblers so we can sell to them. Under this variant (making MA the prereq), remember that Master Aartisan costs 77 points -- that's the same amount of skillpoints needed to make 0044 CH and get +36 max pet lvls and +4 stored pets.We'd have to put the droid certs in the Novice DE box (which costs 6 points). Any thoughts on this?<
As for Dabblers. I see them going arts to E4 and climbing the 'DC' branch, in DE. The bits in the master arts box, and the master DE box, are really to help the 'checkerless' DEs and Artisans. And give a chance at a strong 'DH' total cert.
I see combat dabblers going to 'DC'4. And spending thier other skillpoints on other complimentary combat skills.
I see crafter dabblers as maby having the master arts box in addition to, or instead of DC4. Both to certify unspecified higher level utility droids, and to have an intuitive combat alternative.
I see the 'Droid handlers' being actualy 'DE's Who use droids cause its thier thing. Not because its the most powerfull expenditure of skillpoints. But, if someone, just wanted to get the total droid cert to use droids as thier combat option, while it wouldnt be the most intuitive route, it would cost them enough skill points. Any good race car driver Better know mechanics, even if it wont really help them stear.
Message Edited by Boeda on 03-06-2004 12:28 PM
Arcid wrote:
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Boeda wrote:
Silly Willies !
Just put part of the (stackable) cert, in the master Arts box !
Make the arts part worth the arts skillpoints.
The DE part worth the DE skillpoints.
The sum of the two, the total cert, worth the 140 skillpints !
- No 'Grand Fathering' !
- No New Coding !
Where have I heared this idea before ?
This is an interesting idea. The best argument for it is that it substantially ups the amount of skill points that people need to spend to get the droid certs in the DE tree.
The only problems are that MA does not include combat skills (which is fine with me, but others will complain that there is no combat aspect to justify the combat certs) and that the increase in points might put off dabblers. Remember, we want dabblers so we can sell to them.
Under this variant (making MA the prereq), remember that Master Aartisan costs 77 points -- that's the same amount of skillpoints needed to make 0044 CH and get +36 max pet lvls and +4 stored pets.We'd have to put the droid certs in the Novice DE box (which costs 6 points). Any thoughts on this?
This sounds good, and it would give crafter an advantage in getting bodyguards that the would need to experience the new content that is being added ( as new content either seems to mean another high level dungeon or a new thing to fight. I've seen almost no new non-combat orientated content added ) . However I have a nagging feeling that the Devs wouldn't put it in here for their "balance" worries (Which I don't consider valid in this instance Spend the points to master a basic combat profession and 2 elite combat professions you can do just about anything in game, spend the same points on artisan skills and you have as much access to game content as a newb combatant)
We have to speak the devs language. That's why any proposal needs to be grounded in skillpoints expended for the pet levels which is what I have tried to do. I welcome additional suggestions on how to do that.
My best suggestion at this point (since you're the 'father' of this plan) is to compile what you have, and what's been added by others, and create a ver. 2.x plan.
That will give a new/better baseline to work from...
Right now, my main concerns are:
- whether or not we are thinking about the right amount of skill cost for the benefit attained. Without Dev input on this plan, we will only be sniffing around in the dark on that point though.
- getting a more exact CL level that could be expected for the different 5 DE boxes that we see these items added.
- whether or not the prereq's we are discussing are even remotely feasible, much less acceptable from a balance standpoint. That's another item that would require Dev input to help us tweak.
On a side-note..................................................................where's Drashk?
/bow
Respectfully,