Doctor Archive
Thread: HAM and Buff Focus Thread
diepa
Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:22 am
#105
I actually agree with some points but disagree on others. We do not know how crafting will work, but to tell someone "So....I'm while reading many concerns from "Crafting" Docs....well honestly if you want to continue to play that role, it *sounds like* you are going to have to re-adjust your template" is really not fair. There are many doctors that craft/heal and participate in combat all at the same time. Now a Doctor/rifleman is a fun template and a pretty strong one, but I would not consider it an "uber" one. Now if I am a "crafting doc" and a rifleman, I dont think it is fair to tell me I have to choose between crafting meds and using meds.
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Ok I actually went through and read all the pages of this thread and I figured its time to say what I think.
I've spent the past 3 days trying to calm people down, and pound into thier head that the GP doesn't have all the information. However this thread brings something most do not....Corrs and Blue Glowies, Speaking from wisdom, knowledge, and trying not to spill the beans as their hands are tied between personal feelings and the NDA.
Considering the general flow of this thread has obviously turned into crafting let me just say this. While I don't know what the new skill set up is, I can pretty much say that what makes a Doctor today (+5 crafting Medic, +5 Crafting Doc) may not be how it is made in the CU.
Everyone has their own take on the changes, and honestly they are all good concerns. But what most people are doing is comparing the old system....with the new one. Assuming that it will follow the same general guidelines and restrictions. All I can say to that "We don't know". From reading this thread and getting a lot of input, neither do the Corrs and Blue Glowies; I mean they obviously know more then us, but even they don't have the completed blue print of the CU.
So....I'm while reading many concerns from "Crafting" Docs....well honestly if you want to continue to play that role, it *sounds like* you are going to have to re-adjust your template. It's really that simple.Speaking from personal experience, if I make a run of 5 buffs, they last me a long freakin time. Same with stims. I don't own a vendor, I only sell stuff when I need the money, I don't mass produce, and the items I craft last me a very long time. I personally consider myself a very "Well rounded Doctor, with the resources to back it up", but I'm not a "Crafting" Doctor anymore like I was on Gorath.
I would much rather PLAY then craft for other people. While I enjoy crafting, it's a mild point in my day to day game play. For those people that are hardcore crafters....Change your template...If you want to consider yourself as a "Crafter" then do that and change your template.
I think the general feeling is one that I get almost everyday as an Entertainer. People don't tip, because I don't have a product to use. And I think that is what most people are freaking out about. We will no longer be able to argue the fact that we directly "require" resources. Infact I get tipped more as an Image Designer in the past 3 days then I have in the past 9 months as a full blown entertainer. And Image Designers don't have a "Product" either. But they also can't play AFK.
Before I turn this into a book......I will just sum it up to this; We don't have enough information to start freaking out. Sure our concerns are merited, but we have no clue how the crafting line of Doctor will be moved. Every is just assuming it will go straight to BE. When that may not be the case. Everyone is just assuming that Medics will remain at 5 experimintation points. We don't know. This entire thread is basically one huge mess of assumption, which honestly amounts to *Nothing*.
Take that as you will, but the long and short of it is we have no idea what is going to happen...even the people that know more then the GP don't know everything. All we really know is that the days oftells like"I'm ubar 1337 buffz me nowz"are hopefully over, and we can finally take a role in group play that so many of use totally enjoyed before "grinding and AFK play" came to be. And I don't know about anyone else, but THAT makes me excited as hell for the HAM and Buff Changes.
MyT_Chicken
Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:36 am
#106
diepa wrote:
I actually agree with some points but disagree on others. We do not know how crafting will work, but to tell someone "So....I'm while reading many concerns from "Crafting" Docs....well honestly if you want to continue to play that role, it *sounds like* you are going to have to re-adjust your template" is really not fair. There are many doctors that craft/heal and participate in combat all at the same time. Now a Doctor/rifleman is a fun template and a pretty strong one, but I would not consider it an "uber" one. Now if I am a "crafting doc" and a rifleman, I dont think it is fair to tell me I have to choose between crafting meds and using meds.
It's not about being fair. It's about the facts we have; Doctors will no longer be crafters. For those that are a doctor and consider themselves as "Crafters", I think theyunderstand the point I was trying to make.
Needless to say, Medic (which should still be needed for Doctor) will, in my opinion only, take over 75% of what Doctorscraft today. I don't know everything, but I'm a pretty smart guy....and its been said before. To move 100% of Doctor crafting to BE (which is what most people think) is stupid.
BE's are not healers and for them to craft profession specific items is just stupid. My feelings are the Medic will that over the crafting role of Doctor....and BE will take over the role of the "Self Stims that anyone can use". To me that makes sense....and while I don't know if that is the plan, that makes far more sense then BE taking all of doctor crafting.
The Doctor profession is changing like it or not. And you will either have to adapt to it....or throw it out the window. There is no middle ground. Fair or unfair. If the "Crafting Docs" want to remain Crafting Docs they will have to respec their template. Now for people like you and I who likes to do both...I don't know, I guess I will take what is given to me. I would much rather Heal then craft anyways.
vortexala
Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:48 am
#107
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Needless to say, Medic (which should still be needed for Doctor) will, in my opinion only, take over 75% of what Doctorscraft today. I don't know everything, but I'm a pretty smart guy....and its been said before. To move 100% of Doctor crafting to BE (which is what most people think) is stupid.
The crafting isn't going over to BE wholesale, but it IS going to BE. Crafting meds, as we know it, will no longer exist. In it's place will be optional 'enhancement' items that will be used to 'enhance' the natural healing ability that Doc and CM will have.
So, not only is crafting going away, but it's being changed as well.
MyT_Chicken
Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:54 am
#108
vortexala wrote:
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Needless to say, Medic (which should still be needed for Doctor) will, in my opinion only, take over 75% of what Doctorscraft today. I don't know everything, but I'm a pretty smart guy....and its been said before. To move 100% of Doctor crafting to BE (which is what most people think) is stupid.
The crafting isn't going over to BE wholesale, but it IS going to BE. Crafting meds, as we know it, will no longer exist. In it's place will be optional 'enhancement' items that will be used to 'enhance' the natural healing ability that Doc and CM will have.
So, not only is crafting going away, but it's being changed as well.
Yeah thats fine with me....
Giftmacher
Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:42 pm
#109
SinfulDoom wrote:
Giftmacher wrote:
Buffs were never really intended to be so unbalancing that it lets anyone solo high level mobs,
I dont think its the buffs that really let us be able to do this. Of course it certainly helps but I think the true problem in the game that allows us to fight at an unrealistic level is in the weapon speed caps. There is no way it should be possible to have a PH hit at 1.0 speed like a pistol should at speed cap. If PH's LVA's and other such weaponsactually hit at a real life expectation then standing in there swinging away would actually require the buffs we are getting now and still wouldnt help in some dungeons. Get rid of this and melle stacking and the buffing system, from an advantange standpoint, is solved without touching it.
Well that and armour related issues. My main point was though that we don't know the dynamics of this quite yet, it really is a wait and see for now, with any luck (and I know that seems a distant prospect right now) we will see all the other stacking/speed issues dealt with as well/
I know these things will never occur but I sat here last night and thought how I might have liked to see buff's and buffing change.
1. Require all buffing in NPC cities and a 500m radius around them to be done in the medical centers. This would eliminate the laggy buff lines right outside the starport's.
2. Create a buffing machine in NPC med centers that would give a character something like a 1000-1500 buff for say 5000 credits. This would allow low lvl players the ability to go kill lesser mobs to lvl witout having to pay for high end buffs. Itwould let people unable to find a doctor buff at odd playing hours the ability to go do something other than jumping from starport to starport looking for a doctor.It would also absorb money from the game as SWG likes to do. These lesser buffs would still allow doctors to use their higher buffs for making money and let the players have them to do higher content.
Nice ideas, though I'd say 5000 creds would still be out of plenty of newbies budgets, hell before buffs came along that was an awful lot of cash to me too. Still right now that's a moot point too, the devs have desided so we're best looking at what we've got before any further tinkering.
Gift.
Quality Stims*Meds*Cures*CM Products
KOBO Industries (-1675 2500 Naboo) Starsider
V 12 pt. Master Doctor V 11 pt. MasterCMV
Kobo Doomshadow President
Darksfallen
Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:50 pm
#110
Fine with me too. I'll never have to say I've run out of X meds or couldn't get a stack from a crate because I was in combat. This news is refreshing at least.
MyT_Chicken wrote:
vortexala wrote:
The crafting isn't going over to BE wholesale, but it IS going to BE. Crafting meds, as we know it, will no longer exist. In it's place will be optional 'enhancement' items that will be used to 'enhance' the natural healing ability that Doc and CM will have.
So, not only is crafting going away, but it's being changed as well.
Yeah thats fine with me....
Kabarra
Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:52 pm
#111
I posted this in another topic, it fits here as well.
I think what I am missing here is the 'why' of things. Why take away the ability of crafting meds from doctors? Why then give that ability to make doc meds to BEs? Don't they craft enough and have enough tedious work to do?
I enjoy the crafting side of doc, always have. Doc is my main and has never changed since after launch. My combat professions have changed time and again, but I have always been a doc. So tell me WHYis itnecessary to take away medical crafting from doctors? This (half) information has me more upset with the CURB then knocking buffs down and reducing the HAM to basically one bar. Buffs needed a kick in the pants yes...the crafting of meds did not need changed nor reallocated to another profession.
How many classes do I, as a MD, need to be reliant on before 'the powers that be' are satisfied? How gimped in the field of battle do I need to be for 'the powers' to be happy? I see no good coming from this at all.
Tell me why before the CURB hits. CURB is Combat Upgrade ReBalance. Is crafting considered combat in need of a rebalance? Where has crafting come unbalanced? I just don't see the necessity for all this at all. They are reinventing the wheel when all that is needed is a tire change.
Darksfallen
Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:59 pm
#112
Kabarra wrote:
I posted this in another topic, it fits here as well.
I think what I am missing here is the 'why' of things. Why take away the ability of crafting meds from doctors? Why then give that ability to make doc meds to BEs? Don't they craft enough and have enough tedious work to do?
Why? Because we are going from a crafting stock of 60+ schematics to around 15 craftable items. That's dumb to me to have a whole column to 17 items, probably less... It makes more sense to move those out and give us something else.
diepa
Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:25 pm
#113
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Healing on High-Content and PVP raids. Before "Grinding" and "Solo-groups" were so common along with Buffs, Armor, and uber Weapons, we use to need a group of 20 just to take down 1 rancor lair. Times have changed so much in fact that unless we are healing for High-Content and PVP....or go out w/o buffs, there is really no point to even bring stims. Again your not looking at everything, or maybe you weren't around to see the "Good ole' Days".
I remember the "good ole Days", needing a group of 20 to attack a stormtrooper camp, half the attackers would get killed, have to clone in AH and run back back to the group to do the next mission...hoping you would not run into any squills on the run..because then you were back to the cloner. It wasnt that much fun, I like the gamethe way it is now much better. If the game goes back to the way it was in the "good old days", then I will definetly leave.
MyT_Chicken
Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:07 pm
#114
diepa wrote:
I remember the "good ole Days", needing a group of 20 to attack a stormtrooper camp, half the attackers would get killed, have to clone in AH and run back back to the group to do the next mission...hoping you would not run into any squills on the run..because then you were back to the cloner. It wasnt that much fun, I like the gamethe way it is now much better. If the game goes back to the way it was in the "good old days", then I will definetly leave.
You gotta do what you gotta do. But as I said below this is the only MMO that allows Solo-Play as much as it does. Solo play will still be aloud in the new system, just not like it is today. Atleast that is what Tyrant said.
SinfulDoom wrote:
Is that not exacly what I am saying? That the current buffs we are getting that are "overpowered" will be the norm at all times with the CU...
It's not going to be the Norm. For one we are only going to have 1 secondary. We will no longer be able to spam the "I Win button". And Armor will require a Cert to wear. So not everyone will be running around in the "I Win Armor" either.
Plus technically we can have 9k HAM in the current system. In the new system we will have 1/3 of that. Max 3k on one attackable pool, vise 3k on 3 attackable pools. Try running around with only HAM buffs, no secondary, and I think you will get a better feel of how the new system will work. It won't be exact, but it will be pretty close.
Wow, cant agree with you more. Right now I can go kill upper lvl stuff by myself and enjoy the game when no one is around. At this very moment my guild is planning a trip to the DWB where I will be taking my CM/Doc to heal. Sounds like I'm getting the best of both worlds ATM. In the CU I might get a little bored killing Kaadu on Naboo because it might be the only thing we can handle in a solo situation......................
Well it has been said that the "solo" game will not be removed, only reworked. Basically a lot of the stuff we can solo now; we will be unable to after the CU. Wish I could find the post by Tyrant, but I dunno where it is. Sure we will need groups again, and a lot of people don't like that, but this is a MMORPG not a Single Player Game. Hell currently anything Red in the current system should equal insta death...but it doesn't. No other MMO has the vastness of Single Player (or Solo Group) as this game does.
Your right again. Our sub stats do heal dmg over time. But, how quickly can you heal 2000 points of heath dmg by just setting on the sideline waiting???
I will do some testing tonight if need-be, but I would say less then 30s with high end buffs.
Darksfallen
Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:16 pm
#115
One of the points to this whole thing is so that no one person can do it all. So this is intended.
Kabarra wrote:
Once they give the information on how skillpoints are going to run in professions, then I will see if it will even be feasible to pick up BE.
As they are now it won't be possible (unless my math is wrong) to pick up novice BE, Master Doc and a full combat profession such as rifles or whatnot. Too many skillpoints needed, not enough to do it.
I like being able to hold my own in a group as well as keep that group alive if possible. I don't want to be uber in combat, just effective.
I'm an old dog and new tricks don't excite me. I will keep my fingers and toes crossed that this CURB will be good.........I just won't hold my breath.
Marrow1
Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:19 pm
#116
MyT_Chicken wrote:
SinfulDoom wrote:
Your right again. Our sub stats do heal dmg over time. But, how quickly can you heal 2000 points of heath dmg by just setting on the sideline waiting???
I will do some testing tonight if need-be, but I would say less then 30s with high end buffs.
The regen rate is 6.2 per 1k of buff. So to regen 2k of ham with a 2.5k buff would take about 129 seconds or about 2 min.
MyT_Chicken
Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:46 pm
#117
Marrow1 wrote:
MyT_Chicken wrote:
SinfulDoom wrote:
Your right again. Our sub stats do heal dmg over time. But, how quickly can you heal 2000 points of heath dmg by just setting on the sideline waiting???
I will do some testing tonight if need-be, but I would say less then 30s with high end buffs.
The regen rate is 6.2 per 1k of buff. So to regen 2k of ham with a 2.5k buff would take about 129 seconds or about 2 min.
Awesome didn't know that. 