Doctor Archive
Thread: HAM and Buff Focus Thread
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Like I said, take it as you will but the real fact of the matter is No we don't know. Now if you read that as "Stop Posting" then so be it, but honestly assuming anything without facts really isn't called for. We could be doing far mor productive things like giving people AFK Macro's or something....At this point anything is better then everyone repeating "we don't know"
I can fully understand that, however can't you at least see that this is a major topic for discussion? Of course we don't know genuine facts, and to overreact is entirely unproductive, however to ask everyone tonot talk about it is a bit...trying to find the right word...(no sarcasm intended, I'm just sick right now and feeling brain fried), too enforcing maybe?
But you right the forums can be used to Vent....however venting on assumptions still isn't a good idea.
All it does is cause more people to get on the particular wagon...and next thing we know we have a thread like this which is suppose to be about HAM and Buff Changes, but the main focus seems to be Crafting and why everyone thinks it sucks BE is getting some loving. When in fact we don't know whats getting replaced. Who knows maybe it will be 100,000,000,000,000 time better then the crafting line.
Sure, but the majority of the posts are over the fact we're losing crafting, which isn't an assumption. We don't know the details, but theeven the fact we're losing it is quite a blow to our status quo.
So yeah...if "we don't know" is read as "Stop Posting", then so be it. Because no posts are 100% more constructive then rumors.
But are all posts supposed to meet a preset criteria of being constructive?
I'm certainly not trying to disagree with what you're saying, just offering an alternative point of view...(like we don't all have those!).
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Darksfallen wrote:
I'm wondering on what you are basing that? I'm not disputing it. We get a respec in the CU because our class was changed drastically by the CU not because we are a combat class.
Obata wrote:
Darksfallen wrote:
It's also been confirmed that two mastered combat professions is required to have 3k hitpoints...
Keep in mind, that doctor is considered a combat profession.
I dunno about the rest of you, but I consider Doctor to be a Combat Class right now. As I said before, crafting is only a very small part in what we actually do. And I do more healing for combat people then anything else.
Well reasoned as ever, but I hope you don't mind I add a few of my feelings to your post in the hope they encourage a positive response to our (so far apparently diminished) situation.
I do think it's worth mentioning that lots of people, myself included, are actually disgruntled over having a pretty satisfying minigame being moved from our tree. From the word go I wanted to be a doc to help people however, I really did find the experimentation during crafting a rather pleasent surprise; like you I only needed to craft in once in a blue moon, but there was something very gratifying about using something you made. To me it was an unexpected bonus, and I do still think it's a pity to see crafting go by the wayside for Docs, which is why I'm going to keep saying this to make sure it gets heard (meantime apologies to those sick of hearing it).
Ultimately, I'll be happy if we get a replacement such as cybernetics, because frankly I do think the variation was a good thing, and all professions deserve a bit of diversification to keep them interesting. Alternatively, I'd also have no problem with medic becoming master crafter with Schematics requiring BE tissues, as this would similarly preserve the number of activities a doc could participate in. However, until I know either to be the case I feel passionate enough about this to keep saying so.
It's probably because I'm a bit cynical, but whenever problems like "balance" arise, I do think there is a danger of people asking for things to be taken away, because it's much easier than thinking of things to add when addressing inequality. Therefore, I am naturally cautious over such changes and driven to ask for a more complete picture (which is where I suspect things have gone wrong here). Right now I'm hoping that the minority optimist in me is right and that Medic and BE are being given Meds to diversify their game play, while doc will get cybernetics or something similar to maintain our previously blessed diversity of activities; but the pessimist in me is going to keep banging on about it as a good idea to help make sure it happens. 
Seriously now, I really hope we don't get a tree removed because we are deemed to have too much, because it makes more sense to address why others have so little.
Gift.
TarMangani wrote:
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Like I said, take it as you will but the real fact of the matter is No we don't know. Now if you read that as "Stop Posting" then so be it, but honestly assuming anything without facts really isn't called for. We could be doing far mor productive things like giving people AFK Macro's or something....At this point anything is better then everyone repeating "we don't know"
I can fully understand that, however can't you at least see that this is a major topic for discussion? Of course we don't know genuine facts, and to overreact is entirely unproductive, however to ask everyone tonot talk about it is a bit...trying to find the right word...(no sarcasm intended, I'm just sick right now and feeling brain fried), too enforcing maybe?
But you right the forums can be used to Vent....however venting on assumptions still isn't a good idea.
All it does is cause more people to get on the particular wagon...and next thing we know we have a thread like this which is suppose to be about HAM and Buff Changes, but the main focus seems to be Crafting and why everyone thinks it sucks BE is getting some loving. When in fact we don't know whats getting replaced. Who knows maybe it will be 100,000,000,000,000 time better then the crafting line.
Sure, but the majority of the posts are over the fact we're losing crafting, which isn't an assumption. We don't know the details, but theeven the fact we're losing it is quite a blow to our status quo.
So yeah...if "we don't know" is read as "Stop Posting", then so be it. Because no posts are 100% more constructive then rumors.
But are all posts supposed to meet a preset criteria of being constructive?
I'm certainly not trying to disagree with what you're saying, just offering an alternative point of view...(like we don't all have those!).
I have never said to any one they need to stop posting about the subject. However people continue to post expecting to find some new juicy informationout. Yeah the CU is a hot topic, heck I wanna talk about it. But making assumptions isn't helping anything.
Your right Losing crafting isn't an assumption. However *How* we are losing it, and *How* BE is getting it is nothing but an assumption. And considering 100% of the posts about the subject are assumptions, because there really is no physical fact to back it up.
Doctorswill no longercraft anymore = Fact
Assuming that SOE is just going to move everything to BE = Assumption
Assuming we will have to give up huge amounts of SP's to get BE = Assumption
Assuming anything other then players get 3000 "Health" and buffs will be 10% and 20%, or anything else that has been released today. = ASSUMPTION
Talking about and discussing changes in a constructive way is good, no doubt, this thread has a ton of good insight from everyone. But the thread is "HAM and Buff Focus Thread". Which honestly is the only thing that we can actually somewhat discuss because we know for a fact that we get 3000 health and buffs are 10% and 20%. So to answer your question about the "posts supposed to meet a preset criteria of being constructive" Then Yes. This specific thread does not meet the preset criteria of being constructive.
However the funny thing is that the "Crafting Focus Thread" is talking about HAM and Buffs. Which makes no sense at all to me.
Giftmacher wrote:
It's probably because I'm a bit cynical, but whenever problems like "balance" arise, I do think there is a danger of people asking for things to be taken away, because it's much easier than thinking of things to add when addressing inequality. Therefore, I am naturally cautious over such changes and driven to ask for a more complete picture (which is where I suspect things have gone wrong here). Right now I'm hoping that the minority optimist in me is right and that Medic and BE are being given Meds to diversify their game play, while doc will get cybernetics or something similar to maintain our previously blessed diversity of activities; but the pessimist in me is going to keep banging on about it as a good idea to help make sure it happens.
Seriously now, I really hope we don't get a tree removed because we are deemed to have too much, because it makes more sense to address why others have so little.
Could'nt agree with you more. Very well said. 
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Talking about and discussing changes in a constructive way is good, no doubt, this thread has a ton of good insight from everyone. But the thread is "HAM and Buff Focus Thread". Which honestly is the only thing that we can actually somewhat discuss because we know for a fact that we get 3000 health and buffs are 10% and 20%. So to answer your question about the "posts supposed to meet a preset criteria of being constructive" Then Yes. This specific thread does not meet the preset criteria of being constructive.
However the funny thing is that the "Crafting Focus Thread" is talking about HAM and Buffs. Which makes no sense at all to me.
Golf clubs and golf balls might be two totally different objects but both are taken and used together at golf courses. So it doesnt seem odd that we would be discussing HAM, buffs and crafting in the same thread.
There is also a lot of info in TH's post that people haven't picked up on with respect to some of the SP issues. I dunno if he intended it to be there ,o r it is just sloppy writing
... but if you read the post carefully there are a lot of details you can see.-T
MyT_Chicken wrote:
TarMangani wrote:
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Like I said, take it as you will but the real fact of the matter is No we don't know. Now if you read that as "Stop Posting" then so be it, but honestly assuming anything without facts really isn't called for. We could be doing far mor productive things like giving people AFK Macro's or something....At this point anything is better then everyone repeating "we don't know"
But you right the forums can be used to Vent....however venting on assumptions still isn't a good idea.
All it does is cause more people to get on the particular wagon...and next thing we know we have a thread like this which is suppose to be about HAM and Buff Changes, but the main focus seems to be Crafting and why everyone thinks it sucks BE is getting some loving. When in fact we don't know whats getting replaced. Who knows maybe it will be 100,000,000,000,000 time better then the crafting line.
So yeah...if "we don't know" is read as "Stop Posting", then so be it. Because no posts are 100% more constructive then rumors.
This sounds like a potential contradiction, but I may be wrong...
"Like I said, take it as you will but the real fact of the matter is No we don't know. Now if you read that as "Stop Posting" then so be it." So yeah...if "we don't know" is read as "Stop Posting", then so be it.
"I have never said to any one they need to stop posting about the subject."
However people continue to post expecting to find some new juicy informationout. Yeah the CU is a hot topic, heck I wanna talk about it. But making assumptions isn't helping anything.
They may be looking for some new information, however, the way I read the posts anyway, (allowing a very broad avenue that I'm reading them wrong), people are also posting a lot trying to mention their frustrations and just share one another's thoughts and feelings on the subject. Assumptions don't help, however making "constructive" assumptions are helpful. Let's say for the sake of argument there are maybe four ways the crafting side can go, (there's probably more or less but this is a hypothetical). I only thought of say two of them, but through these posts, whether constructive or simple whining, two more possibilities were made known to me. This allows me to try to figure out my course of action on the day they throw the switch. Sometimes people like to plan for an eventuality in advance, etc. Once they post the solid details, we can say eliminate the other three courses of action that aren't coming to fruition, and, maybe, we have the one course of action planned out if that one path is indeed the direction they go...
I'm just saying people should try to stay calm, but they/we need a chance to share our concerns and ideas, speculations and other things, no matter what format they come in.
Your right Losing crafting isn't an assumption. However *How* we are losing it, and *How* BE is getting it is nothing but an assumption. And considering 100% of the posts about the subject are assumptions, because there really is no physical fact to back it up.
Doctorswill no longercraft anymore = Fact
Assuming that SOE is just going to move everything to BE = Assumption
Assuming we will have to give up huge amounts of SP's to get BE = Assumption
Assuming anything other then players get 3000 "Health" and buffs will be 10% and 20%, or anything else that has been released today. = ASSUMPTION
Yes, but it still gives us a lot to talk about, even if it is speculation.
Talking about and discussing changes in a constructive way is good, no doubt, this thread has a ton of good insight from everyone. But the thread is "HAM and Buff Focus Thread". Which honestly is the only thing that we can actually somewhat discuss because we know for a fact that we get 3000 health and buffs are 10% and 20%. So to answer your question about the "posts supposed to meet a preset criteria of being constructive" Then Yes. This specific thread does not meet the preset criteria of being constructive.
However the funny thing is that the "Crafting Focus Thread" is talking about HAM and Buffs. Which makes no sense at all to me.
People respond passionately to different subjects as they come up. However I do agree with the other poster who said that HAM and Buff is very closely related to crafting buffs, so I can't see someone discussing crafting in this thread to be inappropriate.
I'm done argueing this. There isn't even a point anymore.
TarMangani wrote:
*snip*
ik so lets just say u have a 1000 health line. you will only be able to get a 10% buff fora 3.5 hr so 100 stats on a buff INSTEAD of the 2598 of which i am buffing now or a 20% buff on a short term buff which is a whopping 200 stats? what is the point of buffing now?
MasterNerfSlayer wrote:
Post your thoughts here on the new system.
Health, Action, Mind pools
- A character's maximum health will increase with the character's combat level up to 300%.
- New character health will be 1000, maxed character health will be 3000.
- Players will be able to reference their combat level.
- Short term buffs will modify this health value no more than 20%.
- Long term buffs will modify this health value no more than 10%.
- Species modifiers will affect no more than 10% of a base statistic.
- The group UI will be re-worked so that you can see the buffs and de-buffs applied to other group members.
Message Edited by MasterNerfSlayer on 03-19-2005 11:38 AM
Enerao wrote:
ik so lets just say u have a 1000 health line. you will only be able to get a 10% buff fora 3.5 hr so 100 stats on a buff INSTEAD of the 2598 of which i am buffing now or a 20% buff on a short term buff which is a whopping 200 stats? what is the point of buffing now?
MasterNerfSlayer wrote:
Post your thoughts here on the new system.
Health, Action, Mind pools
- A character's maximum health will increase with the character's combat level up to 300%.
- New character health will be 1000, maxed character health will be 3000.
- Players will be able to reference their combat level.
- Short term buffs will modify this health value no more than 20%.
- Long term buffs will modify this health value no more than 10%.
- Species modifiers will affect no more than 10% of a base statistic.
- The group UI will be re-worked so that you can see the buffs and de-buffs applied to other group members.
Message Edited by MasterNerfSlayer on 03-19-2005 11:38 AM
Well this is a matter of scaling, novice combat professions may only have 1000hp, but that scales with the kind of mobs they'll be talking on, at low levels that extra 200 will be of benefitas it will give an edge over the mobs they are meant to be taking on. Buffs were never really intended to be so unbalancing that it lets anyone solo high level mobs, they are meant to give an edge in combat, not to enable "solo content" like one on one rancor hunting.
In addition we don't know if it can be stacked too, if chef food and spices can stack then you may actually be able to boost your overall hp by 60%, that's still a fair figure especially when you have a master combat prof.All of which is entirely academic as what will really count is how the content will scale with this, remember buffs are only oneside of the equation, who/what you are fighting will also dictate the reletive value of any enhancements.
Gift.
Giftmacher wrote:
Buffs were never really intended to be so unbalancing that it lets anyone solo high level mobs,
I dont think its the buffs that really let us be able to do this. Of course it certainly helps but I think the true problem in the game that allows us to fight at an unrealistic level is in the weapon speed caps. There is no way it should be possible to have a PH hit at 1.0 speed like a pistol should at speed cap. If PH's LVA's and other such weaponsactually hit at a real life expectation then standing in there swinging away would actually require the buffs we are getting now and still wouldnt help in some dungeons. Get rid of this and melle stacking and the buffing system, from an advantange standpoint, is solved without touching it.
I know these things will never occur but I sat here last night and thought how I might have liked to see buff's and buffing change.
1. Require all buffing in NPC cities and a 500m radius around them to be done in the medical centers. This would eliminate the laggy buff lines right outside the starport's.
2. Create a buffing machine in NPC med centers that would give a character something like a 1000-1500 buff for say 5000 credits. This would allow low lvl players the ability to go kill lesser mobs to lvl witout having to pay for high end buffs. Itwould let people unable to find a doctor buff at odd playing hours the ability to go do something other than jumping from starport to starport looking for a doctor.It would also absorb money from the game as SWG likes to do. These lesser buffs would still allow doctors to use their higher buffs for making money and let the players have them to do higher content.
Quality Stims*Meds*Cures*CM Products
KOBO Industries (-1675 2500 Naboo) Starsider
V 12 pt. Master Doctor V 11 pt. MasterCMV
Kobo Doomshadow President
toothlessviper wrote:
im in the hate it group. glad the stim healer love it. happy for you.
one thing is true.... old time players who craft will be gone. good job swg. hope you are happy.
I will agree that buffs needed fixing, however to do so at the price of the crafting doc makes us the sacrifice for the "common good" as it were...
However I've also heard a lot of ppl say that docs will heal without components? If this is true for buffs also, the crafting doc is double screwed... (don't know if it's true or not, we have to wait and see)...
toothlessviper wrote:
im in the hate it group. glad the stim healer love it. happy for you.
one thing is true.... old time players who craft will be gone. good job swg. hope you are happy.