Doctor Archive
Thread: Changes on vendors(merchant skill change)..Please read
I guess i can agree with that,It should have been that way in the first place,But i can't help go for the posters that think Doctors should have their own vendors Because i'm practicly Stuck and i'm already thinking of quiting Architect because i can't find a merchant. 
Songe wrote:
Do I sense some sarcasm there?
not really....just a geek galtrying to explain my situation,not everyone is upset because they are loseing Combat SKills,tho i understand why they need combat skills..some may need to get Avain meat and cannot afford it. and may i remind people that the bazaar amount only go for 6k on the highest price,Buff packs are worth ALOT more then that like 22k (or more) for 1 good pack (there is 6 stats too) sooo you can't exactly Order us that "well if you don't have a vendor sell it on the bazaar!" thingy.
Scoooter wrote:
Songe wrote:
Gonna repeat what I said above. Crafter can't do anything else than craft. So they have to spend 9 more points to get a vendor. On the other end, docs can heal, craft, cure, buff, then craft. They have to spend 15 points more to get a vendor, how is it a bad deal? Most of the crafting docs already have novice artisan anyway, because they need to survey for their resources if they want to craft. So it will be just 9 points more for them as well.So the skill point argument is not really one. For the harvester issue, honestly I believe it was just an idea coming from one person and everyone started panicking and taking it way too seriously.Not necessarily true. Many doctors do not have novice artisan. You need to validate numbers here. It's not 9 skill points its 24.
Many docs alternate novice scout for creature harvesting and novice artisan for survey. That is very common. Now if they have to retain BUS 3 they cannot do that.
So even in your example if they have skill points in survey they have to make their combat prof even worse now. Lowering available content and money making ability even more. It basically forces people to create alts or foces them into a template they do not want. Oter crafters are not forced in that position, other elite crafters do not have to master their basic profession and are given some of these skills just by having their novice basic profession
But again the Merchant fix needs to happen. The fix just puts it back on the forefront that we are not on the same level playing field as other crafters. And yes we are crafters. The only difference between us and like a WS is that we have fewer items to sell, but on the other hand we have services to sell which balance that out.
I'm not sure I see what the problem is here. An MD that wants to merchandise their wares AND have combat skill equivalent to a dedicated combat character is just silly.
You can be an MD/Artisan 0033/Pistoleer 0444 and be pretty dang effective in PvE and still market their wares. This template or something similar can be quite effective as support personel in PvP.
My point is that it's not impossible to create an effective comprimise to crafting/combat.
Scoooter wrote:
THe problem being is sinply being on a level playing field with other crafters
All other crafters can bave Bus 3, Surv 3, (AS/WS/Architect/tailor/de)/Master Pistoleer - There is a big difference in content when you can master the second elite profession.
The game is clearly designed around the ability to master 2 elites. Well doctors are the only ones that cannot because skills that other crafters have natively in their trees. And with existing game mechanics not having those skills is a problem. Now base skills to do your profession that are not there is an issue now whether however if you read my above posts I do point out that propsed solutions are not the only ones. Game mechanics can also assis in this.
Not to mention many doctors altername novice scout with novice merchant to fill in the gaps with resources.
Yes but this is where you're going south. A doctor isn't a pure crafter like a weaponsmith or armorsmith or architect. A pure crafter profession has no skills which are directly usable in another application. My previous armorsmithing skills didn't help me at all in combat. But a doctor can heal states, poisons, diseases, extinguise fires, resusitate the recently dead.
I think where your real problem is, is that the crafting side of the profession is too intertwined with the rest. The marketable meds like buff packs are in the master box even though you don't get anymore experimentation after Med Crafting IV.
Perhaps the solution would be to move those schematics to Med Crafting IV? Then you wouldn't need to master doctor to craft the best meds. That would leave you with plenty of skill points for the other skills you obviously want. Of course then who would master doctor then? The crafters would only go 0004 and the end users would only go 4440 in which case what was the point of the profession.
Perhaps they ought to break out the crafting into a separate profession. Leave docs with the first 3 lines. Have a new profession (Pharmisist) coming off of Orgainic Chem IV. Have the lines (Stims, Wounds, Cures, Enhancers) only cost 1pt/box to keep the skill costs down with the novice box costing 3 points and the master box costing 1 point. This way doctoring would have nothing to do with the pharmicutical side of it except a massive interdependancy bar none.
Hmmmmmm, perhaps that's not so good.
Perhaps you're just going to have to get over it and face the fact that doctor isn't just a crafting profession and comprimises are going to have to be made to do what you want to do. Either you can craft and market the best meds and have less effective combat skills or not. It comes down to a matter of choice on your part. Essentially, you're asking the devs if you can have your cake and eat it too 
PS: By the way, Bounty Hunters can't master a second elite either with only 33 skill points after master BH.
I'm currently a Master Doctor and a Master Rifleman, with a little Scout mixed in for meat harvesting.
I don't think it's fair to be able to place a vendor then drop the skills and keep the benefits of the vendor. It's unfair to the Master Merchants of the game. I know people wouldn't like it if I could still use my Master Rifleman skills after dropping the profession.
As a Master Doctor on the other hand, I needed a vendor to sell my supplies. So, my ALT is a Master Merchant to give me all the vendors I need, with enough Entertainer, Musician and Dancer to give me 75% Mind Buffs. This has worked out perfectly and has by no means made me feel the extra RL money per month was a waste.
But from a Master Merchant point of view... why not consider renting/leasing a vendor from a Merchant near you? I'm doing this for 2 of my vendors and it's a great deal. It adds a level of participation to the Merchant profession. And I can't help but think is exactly what the Dev's wanted to have happen. Let's face it, what else does a Merchant have to do?
Let's consider that all vendors have one feature that no one else has, they sell stuff. All other professions must use a vendor or the bazaar (heaven forbid) if they are to sell any of their products. So let's use them as they are intended... Hire them and get back to your own profession.
/justMyTwoCents
ElyHT wrote:
But from a Master Merchant point of view... why not consider renting/leasing a vendor from a Merchant near you? I'm doing this for 2 of my vendors and it's a great deal. It adds a level of participation to the Merchant profession. And I can't help but think is exactly what the Dev's wanted to have happen. Let's face it, what else does a Merchant have to do?
Let's consider that all vendors have one feature that no one else has, they sell stuff. All other professions must use a vendor or the bazaar (heaven forbid) if they are to sell any of their products. So let's use them as they are intended... Hire them and get back to your own profession.
/justMyTwoCents
Can't do the Bazaar,you can only put up the cost to 6k
The Buff packs are worth 22k or loads more.
And you can hardly Find a Merchant at all,and i've posted in the merchant section,the Tradeing Section,This Doctor Section,Only 2 people came up and1 isunavailableand the othercannot put up a merchant tent!
LordOfFatness wrote:
Scoooter wrote:
Dragonian wrote:
Scoooter wrote:
Songe wrote:
Gonna repeat what I said above. Crafter can't do anything else than craft. So they have to spend 9 more points to get a vendor. On the other end, docs can heal, craft, cure, buff, then craft. They have to spend 15 points more to get a vendor, how is it a bad deal? Most of the crafting docs already have novice artisan anyway, because they need to survey for their resources if they want to craft. So it will be just 9 points more for them as well.
So the skill point argument is not really one. For the harvester issue, honestly I believe it was just an idea coming from one person and everyone started panicking and taking it way too seriously.
Not necessarily true. Many doctors do not have novice artisan. You need to validate numbers here. It's not 9 skill points its 24.
Many docs alternate novice scout for creature harvesting and novice artisan for survey. That is very common. Now if they have to retain BUS 3 they cannot do that.
So even in your example if they have skill points in survey they have to make their combat prof even worse now. Lowering available content and money making ability even more. It basically forces people to create alts or foces them into a template they do not want. Oter crafters are not forced in that position, other elite crafters do not have to master their basic profession and are given some of these skills just by having their novice basic profession
But again the Merchant fix needs to happen. The fix just puts it back on the forefront that we are not on the same level playing field as other crafters. And yes we are crafters. The only difference between us and like a WS is that we have fewer items to sell, but on the other hand we have services to sell which balance that out.
I'm not sure I see what the problem is here. An MD that wants to merchandise their wares AND have combat skill equivalent to a dedicated combat character is just silly.
You can be an MD/Artisan 0033/Pistoleer 0444 and be pretty dang effective in PvE and still market their wares. This template or something similar can be quite effective as support personel in PvP.
My point is that it's not impossible to create an effective comprimise to crafting/combat.
THe problem being is sinply being on a level playing field with other crafters
All other crafters can bave Bus 3, Surv 3, (AS/WS/Architect/tailor/de)/Master Pistoleer - There is a big difference in content when you can master the second elite profession.
The game is clearly designed around the ability to master 2 elites. Well doctors are the only ones that cannot because skills that other crafters have natively in their trees. And with existing game mechanics not having those skills is a problem. Now base skills to do your profession that are not there is an issue now whether however if you read my above posts I do point out that propsed solutions are not the only ones. Game mechanics can also assis in this.
Not to mention many doctors altername novice scout with novice merchant to fill in the gaps with resources.
A level playing field? A weaponsmith can not buff, cure, or heal. I think this more than makes up for the extra skill points our profession requires.
You are trying to compare a pure crafting professionto a crafter/support profession.If you want to compare a crafter to a crafter, then go 0 0 0 4 in Doctor. This doesn't even balance properly because Medic has healing abilities as well, probably more than they should have. However if you go 0 0 0 4 in Doctor, you can master TKA (or another similar combat profession), and go 0 0 34 in Artisan with 23 skill points remaining. Now you are a crafter/fighter that can take a vendor and survey on their own. You even have the ability to take up scout and harvest your own meat.
Message Edited by LordOfFatness on 06-03-2004 05:11 PM
True a weaposmith cannot buff, cure or heal. But a doctor cannot make cannot make weapons either. But the weaponsmith can get every skill he needs to do everything he needs to do in his/her profession and master a combat skill with 43 skill points left over and that is considering they also have gotten bus 3 and survey 4 in addition to what is also required in Artisan to get weaponsmith. Mastering a single combat profession is key to getting at much of the content. A doctor if they have master and master a combat profession has only 18left , and in the case of a doctor they do not have all the skills needed to complete what they need to do.With the novice artisan skill point hit of 15 getting a vendor or decent survey.
Skill points will become a bigger issue once the FS abilities will be available.
And yes we are crafters, the only difference between us and weaponsmiths is we use a lot of we craft in the way of services. We have a market for our wares, and the community as a whole only pays for one of our services.
There is no game mechanic for payment of our services, nor is there a game mechanic to allow for consignments, nor is there a game mechanic to get resources surveyed for us.
Now the Merchant/vendor fix is needed for the game. It is a bug. But there is a balance issue. Doctors are either forced to get alts or be in a template they don't want. I finally got an alt and I should not have had to do that. I am ready for this but many are going to be in a bad position
Dependencies are good accross classes, but they don't always work. One example of that is survey. Artisans dont sell the use of their survey skills because basically it is not a fun thing to do.
I have a deep suspician that merchants selling for people will be the same issue. There are just not enough of them out there for the demand that will soon occur.
DocSavag wrote:
ElyHT wrote:
But from a Master Merchant point of view... why not consider renting/leasing a vendor from a Merchant near you? I'm doing this for 2 of my vendors and it's a great deal. It adds a level of participation to the Merchant profession. And I can't help but think is exactly what the Dev's wanted to have happen. Let's face it, what else does a Merchant have to do?
Let's consider that all vendors have one feature that no one else has, they sell stuff. All other professions must use a vendor or the bazaar (heaven forbid) if they are to sell any of their products. So let's use them as they are intended... Hire them and get back to your own profession.
/justMyTwoCents
I'm sorry I didn't see this thread until now as there have been some good points made in this discussion.
I do, as you might imagine, come down on the side of requiring skill point expenditure to keep vendors. It is OUR skill just as buffing and healing and crafting medical items is yours. I think that it is obvious that selling medical supplies is not the primary skill of doctors. Unlike pure crafting professions you are making items that you yourself can consume in your profession. The primary purpose of your crafting is to supply yourself. Now, you can decide that you don't like to do crafting as a Docctor and buy them from someone who likes crafting or at least is willing to do it for the finanical reward. But if you decide to become a retailer of medical supplies it is completelyreasonable to ask you to expend additional skill points to do it.
I have to also agree with the post above. If you don't want to spend some skill points to have a vendor yourself then you need to embrace the idea of selling your items through a merchant or on the bazaar. The single best thing you can do in my mind to help this situation is to let the devs know that you, as a potential supplier of goods to merchants , fully support our requests to update our vendor interface and flesh out our abilities to make supplier-merchant relationships work better than they currently do. This would give you more opportunities to sell your medicines without having to spend the skill points yourself.
Well its not your skill, it starts in BUS 3 of artisan. But in this entire thread I think you will see the agreement that this bug needs fixed, and that it is a bug that people can control vendors after dropping the skill.
The bizarre is not much of a help with the 6K cap. People want crates of stims and medicines, not individual ones. Some of out items cost more than 6k.
It is more of a disparity because we need to master our basic profession in order to master the elite. Doctors just dont have the skill points left over unless they want to remove themselves from content by not mastering a combat profession. As I have posted before other crafters can get a vendor, full survey, master an elite crafting profession, master an elite combat profession and have 43 skill points left.
They really needed to add game mechanics for consigment before implimenting this fix.
I also think we will see not enough merchants out there to do consignment which will raise the sonsignment cost. Doctors have enough money making issues as it is.
I don't know if giving doctors a vendor is the right thing to do, maybe game mechanics can solve the problem. But there is a fundamental disparity here and many dcotors like myself are forced to get alt accounts because of interdependancies that don't work well and that is not right.
Message Edited by DocSavag on 06-07-2004 12:25 PM
I run a multi-million credit per week buisness and I have never owned vendor. I simply pay others to put my items on thier vendor.
Sure, its a pain but it works as I believe the game was intended. Sure, it eats into my profits, costs me a lot of time, etc but I have made many good friends this way.
The only thing that I would like to see changed is for the addition of admin rights that would allow someone who does not own the vendor be able to place items on the vendor. The current system is very time consuming becuase I have to give the item to the merchant, tell them the price, etc. The addition ofan admin right would stream line the process without giving up any of the Skill Rights the owner has. I still need them to use the vendor. The admin rights simple make the process of working with a merchant easier.