Doctor Archive
Thread: Changes on vendors(merchant skill change)..Please read
Mordeth123 wrote:
If I knew if there's gonna be a vendor revampof theinterface to make everyone's lives easier, well then I wouldn't have bothered to make this thread. And just a little info for you Ledoa, you need 0030 artisan to get 1 vendor.
I just want SOE to think twice before they fix this bug, cause the fix can affect the prices on especially medical supplies, I'm not sure if that's what they intend to do. Docs is the hybrid class that craft the most and alot of people is dependant on their crafts, the fix will most likely prevent alot of people to consider taking up doctor and sell medical supplies.
Of course I know that... You do not, however, need any points in the business line of artisan to master any crafting profession, save master artisan. That was the point I was making...
To your second statement, I'll refer you to what I wrote earlier: "Our energy, as a community, should be directed toward a) making the devs aware that they cannot implement the vendor fix without simultaneously adding working consignment sales, and b) determining how such a thing might ideally work..."
Your continued assertion that this fix will affect prices and prevent people from becoming a doctor and selling supplies is absolutely baseless. IF they were to implement this fix without at the same time fixing the merchant profession (which is really not likely...), Doctors would be negatively impacted, but so would everyone else.
I hope the devs work in a failsafe/warning systemthat prevents you from deleting a merchant skill box or business 3 without reminding you that a vendor will be lost. That's accident waiting to happen.
Ledoa wrote:
Your continued assertion that this fix will affect prices and prevent people from becoming a doctor and selling supplies is absolutely baseless. IF they were to implement this fix without at the same time fixing the merchant profession (which is really not likely...), Doctors would be negatively impacted, but so would everyone else.
Scoooter wrote:
Ok, for one I agree with the merchant fix. No one should be able to control a vendor if they drop the skill.
Doctor is a support profession not a combat profession. Name one skill that weas doctors have that is combat related, do we have defense mods? Do we have any attacks..no. Can a doctor support combat professions in the field.. yes to a point, however their main asset is before and after.
I'm not saying there needs to be no change made to Doctors to make them more combat necessary but we aren't merchants period.
Besides even if they gave you guys your "one merchant" they would probably institute a item limit eventually and you would complain you couldn't stock 500 items on your one vendor anymore.
Well I am glad you can see in the future and assume that doctors would complain about followng constraints on merchants. Maybe you can tell me the next stocks that will go up too.
Hence my use of the word probably meaning might. Also any of the fuel company stocks are set for a pretty good quarter.
Anyone that has been reading the forums knows the direction the Devs are heading....
YAY a given. Just because there are balance issues here does not mean that the merchan change isnot correct and in fact I do believe the merchant fix is needed, just there is a balance issue that has always been there and look in the top 10's past and present. It is there.
Come on man how many professions are really completely balanced? I was a Smuggler for over a month. There are at least people heavily dependent on this class and this class is usuable at less than Master. Every class has some issues with it and Doctor is nothing unusual.
Ledao wrote:
Scoooter wrote:
Ledeo,
I dont see anyone complaining that this is a nerf. It is in fact a fix. It should have never been that way in the first place.
Any talk of consignment sales and such should probably ne in the Merchan forum since it does affect not only docyors, but Rangers,BE,resouce vendorsand any other class that sells their wares
The fact there are balance issues with Doctor that do not place us on a level field does not alter the fact that the change to merchant is a correction to an existing problem. It just brings it out more. Just as the medical survey issue.
However what has always been proposed is a medical vendor type. Well that is a proposed solution,not the issue. The issue is not also that merchant is being fixed.
How a balance issue is actually solved does not necesarily mean that a solution we propose is the one selected to fix it.
A different solition could be found.
In the mean time SOE is making a lot of money on alts that are Artisan/Merchant lol.
(emphasis mine)
Scoooter,
Here's the thing, which I suppose I glossed over in my earlier post: There is no balance issue. I'm glad you brought up medical survey, in fact, since that one has been addressed both directly and clearly by the devs in the past... No crafting profession (well, except master artisan, I suppose) gets vendors, they merely get more ready access to them by virtue of already having novice artisan. Similarly, they don't get surveying...
As many, many people have already brought up, Doctors and Combat Medics are compensated in other ways for their difficulty in accessing the artisan skilltrees. I won't waste space by listing them again...
If they are to add a medical vendor for master doctors, shouldn't they also add an Organics and Camps vendor for Master Rangers? Why not a resource vendor for anyone with surveying 4?
Whether we like it or not, class interdependency is an important part of the game. Doctors are not meant to control all aspects of the production and distribution of their wares. Just as we all hire hunters, or miners, or surveyors, so too should we all hire merchants.
Ledao
Songe wrote:
Gonna repeat what I said above. Crafter can't do anything else than craft. So they have to spend 9 more points to get a vendor. On the other end, docs can heal, craft, cure,buff, then craft. They have to spend 15 points more to get a vendor, how is it a bad deal? Most of the crafting docs already have novice artisan anyway, because they need to survey for their resources if they want to craft. So it will be just 9 points more for them as well.
So the skill point argument is not really one. For the harvester issue, honestly I believe it was just an idea coming from one person and everyone started panicking and taking it way too seriously.
Not necessarily true. Many doctors do not have novice artisan. You need to validate numbers here. It's not 9 skill points its 24.
Many docs alternate novice scout for creature harvesting and novice artisan for survey. That is very common. Now if they have to retain BUS 3 they cannot do that.
So even in your example if they have skill points in survey they have to make their combat prof even worse now.Lowering available content and money making ability even more.It basically forces people to create alts or foces them into a template they do not want. Oter crafters are not forced in that position, other elite crafters do not have to master their basic profession and are given some of these skills just by having their novice basic profession
But again the Merchant fix needs to happen. The fix just puts it back on the forefront that we are not on the same level playing field as other crafters. And yes we are crafters. The only difference between us and like a WS is that we have fewer items to sell, but on the other hand we have services to sell which balance that out.
Dragonian wrote:
Scoooter wrote:
Songe wrote:
Gonna repeat what I said above. Crafter can't do anything else than craft. So they have to spend 9 more points to get a vendor. On the other end, docs can heal, craft, cure, buff, then craft. They have to spend 15 points more to get a vendor, how is it a bad deal? Most of the crafting docs already have novice artisan anyway, because they need to survey for their resources if they want to craft. So it will be just 9 points more for them as well.
So the skill point argument is not really one. For the harvester issue, honestly I believe it was just an idea coming from one person and everyone started panicking and taking it way too seriously.
Not necessarily true. Many doctors do not have novice artisan. You need to validate numbers here. It's not 9 skill points its 24.
Many docs alternate novice scout for creature harvesting and novice artisan for survey. That is very common. Now if they have to retain BUS 3 they cannot do that.
So even in your example if they have skill points in survey they have to make their combat prof even worse now. Lowering available content and money making ability even more. It basically forces people to create alts or foces them into a template they do not want. Oter crafters are not forced in that position, other elite crafters do not have to master their basic profession and are given some of these skills just by having their novice basic profession
But again the Merchant fix needs to happen. The fix just puts it back on the forefront that we are not on the same level playing field as other crafters. And yes we are crafters. The only difference between us and like a WS is that we have fewer items to sell, but on the other hand we have services to sell which balance that out.
I'm not sure I see what the problem is here. An MD that wants to merchandise their wares AND have combat skill equivalent to a dedicated combat character is just silly.
You can be an MD/Artisan 0033/Pistoleer 0444 and be pretty dang effective in PvE and still market their wares. This template or something similar can be quite effective as support personel in PvP.
My point is that it's not impossible to create an effective comprimise to crafting/combat.
THe problem being is sinply being on a level playing field with other crafters
All other crafters can bave Bus 3, Surv 3, (AS/WS/Architect/tailor/de)/Master Pistoleer - There is a big difference in content when you can master the second elite profession.
The game is clearly designed around the ability to master 2 elites. Well doctors are the only ones that cannot because skills that other crafters have natively in their trees. And with existing game mechanics not having those skills is a problem. Now base skills to do your profession that are not there is an issue now whether however if you read my above posts I do point out that propsed solutions are not the only ones. Game mechanics can also assis in this.
Not to mention many doctors altername novice scout with novice merchant to fill in the gaps with resources.
Scoooter wrote:
Dragonian wrote:
Scoooter wrote:
Songe wrote:
Gonna repeat what I said above. Crafter can't do anything else than craft. So they have to spend 9 more points to get a vendor. On the other end, docs can heal, craft, cure, buff, then craft. They have to spend 15 points more to get a vendor, how is it a bad deal? Most of the crafting docs already have novice artisan anyway, because they need to survey for their resources if they want to craft. So it will be just 9 points more for them as well.
So the skill point argument is not really one. For the harvester issue, honestly I believe it was just an idea coming from one person and everyone started panicking and taking it way too seriously.
Not necessarily true. Many doctors do not have novice artisan. You need to validate numbers here. It's not 9 skill points its 24.
Many docs alternate novice scout for creature harvesting and novice artisan for survey. That is very common. Now if they have to retain BUS 3 they cannot do that.
So even in your example if they have skill points in survey they have to make their combat prof even worse now. Lowering available content and money making ability even more. It basically forces people to create alts or foces them into a template they do not want. Oter crafters are not forced in that position, other elite crafters do not have to master their basic profession and are given some of these skills just by having their novice basic profession
But again the Merchant fix needs to happen. The fix just puts it back on the forefront that we are not on the same level playing field as other crafters. And yes we are crafters. The only difference between us and like a WS is that we have fewer items to sell, but on the other hand we have services to sell which balance that out.
I'm not sure I see what the problem is here. An MD that wants to merchandise their wares AND have combat skill equivalent to a dedicated combat character is just silly.
You can be an MD/Artisan 0033/Pistoleer 0444 and be pretty dang effective in PvE and still market their wares. This template or something similar can be quite effective as support personel in PvP.
My point is that it's not impossible to create an effective comprimise to crafting/combat.
THe problem being is sinply being on a level playing field with other crafters
All other crafters can bave Bus 3, Surv 3, (AS/WS/Architect/tailor/de)/Master Pistoleer - There is a big difference in content when you can master the second elite profession.
The game is clearly designed around the ability to master 2 elites. Well doctors are the only ones that cannot because skills that other crafters have natively in their trees. And with existing game mechanics not having those skills is a problem. Now base skills to do your profession that are not there is an issue now whether however if you read my above posts I do point out that propsed solutions are not the only ones. Game mechanics can also assis in this.
Not to mention many doctors altername novice scout with novice merchant to fill in the gaps with resources.
A level playing field? A weaponsmith can not buff, cure, or heal. I think this more than makes up for the extra skill points our profession requires.
You are trying to compare a pure crafting professionto a crafter/support profession.If you want to compare a crafter to a crafter, then go 0 0 0 4 in Doctor. This doesn't even balance properly because Medic has healing abilities as well, probably more than they should have. However if you go 0 0 0 4 in Doctor, you can master TKA (or another similar combat profession), and go 0 0 34 in Artisan with 23 skill points remaining. Now you are a crafter/fighter that can take a vendor and survey on their own. You even have the ability to take up scout and harvest your own meat.
Message Edited by LordOfFatness on 06-03-2004 05:11 PM
LordOfFatness wrote:
Alevel playing field? A weaponsmith can not buff, cure, or heal. I think this more than makes up for the extra skill points our profession requires.
You are trying to compare a pure crafting professionto a crafter/support profession.If you want to compare a crafter to a crafter, then go 0 0 0 4 in Doctor. This doesn't even balance properly because Medic has healing abilities as well, probably more than they should have. However if you go 0 0 0 4 in Doctor, you can master TKA (or another similar combat profession), and go 0 0 34 in Artisan with 23 skill points remaining. Now you are a crafter/fighter that can take a vendor and survey on their own. You even have the ability to take up scout and harvest your own meat.
Message Edited by LordOfFatness on 06-03-2004 05:11 PM