Doctor Archive
Thread: Just a Heads up from a TC regular.
BastiWan wrote:
But I won't accept that a supporting class-profession (which CM and Doc are) is stronger than a Bountyhunter, Rifleman, Swordman, Jedi or whatever combat profession. This nerf is in my opinion acceptable.
Remember always:
If the last smuggler is gone, the last ID closes his make-up bag, the last ranger is lost in wilderness, the last dancer stop to dance, the last crafter close his shop - then you will see thatto be jediis not star wars galaxies..
If your heals required action, and you are out of action, you are down.
MrDecipher wrote:
All this change does is make it more of a numbers game in PvP. 1 on 1 the duels will last just as long because all your action will be used healng or KD recory forceing you to use default attack only more most of the fight. 2 on 1 there will be little to no chance for the person getting outnumbered because you will have no action to attack back at 2 different people.
Heals are fine as they are if they think they are overpowered just increase mind cost. Thats what mind is for anyhow.
I am ok with Doctors having very strong defense/armor.
BastiWan wrote:
But I won't accept that a supporting class-profession (which CM and Doc are) is stronger than a Bountyhunter, Rifleman, Swordman, Jedi or whatever combat profession. This nerf is in my opinion acceptable.
BastiWan wrote:
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
BastiWan wrote:
It is less thrilling to fight an enemy who can stay alive for hours!
Jedi Defenders with Channel and Avoid Incap?
Or hell... "It is less thrilling to fight an enemy who is already almost twice as strong as you coming onto the battlefield."
The Jedi in this game are NOT Defenders of the galaxy, masters in combat, nor spiritual leaders. They aren't even JEDI.
The synopsis of your post is "Wah, Jedi should be stronger than everyone else."
BastiWan wrote:
Stop whining and learn to play!
Message Edited by TenshiHanaKinu on 10-08-200507:18 PM
Even a MDef with Channel and AI cannot stay alive for hours, not even for more then some minutes. Somewhen he will not be able to use his channel cause his health, action and mind are too low and to be honest nearly no one still uses AI in PvP. This means mainly certain death. Tenshi, if you're focusing on fighting a Jedi one-on-one it is almost clear that the Jedi should have the advantage BUT there is not only One-on-One-Combat. Take another friend with you and the Jedi will be far more easy beatable.
Wow... and if you do the same thing with these other HEALERS you complain about, then they will drop , too! IMAGINE THAT! I'm quite aware of the specifics, but I made the generalization to make a point -- YOU are generalizing.
The weird thing is that you conclude something I've never said. I had to deal with a LOT of nerfs yet in many professions also in my time of being a force-user (if you like that term more...). Jedi got nerfed as well, they aren't that uberstrong profession anymore and I kinda like it. It just motivates me to take my friends with me when engaging enemies. But I won't accept that a supporting class-profession (which CM and Doc are) is stronger than a Bountyhunter, Rifleman, Swordman, Jedi or whatever combat profession. This nerf is in my opinion acceptable.
What I won't accept is your insinuation that a supporting class profession is stronger than a Bounty HUnter, Rifleman, Swordsman, Jedi or whatever combat profession. A DOCTOR or COMBAT MEDIC can't do anything by themself. DOTs don't do much damage, and Oooo, Doctors are REAL scary with their /Bacta commands. You are making the blanket statement that any combination of template with "Doc" or "CM" in it is utilizing all of Doctor or CM and are thus making the sacrafice that mastered healers make. That'd be like me saying that "All Jedi" can avoid incap, all jedi can armor break, all jedi can FR3, all Jedi can cloak, all Jedi can deal 1000's of points of damage in a second, all Jedi can root from 32m, all Jedi can heal for 3K on their back, etc. etc.
MsNiL wrote:
The problem begins when a doc can take continous punishments along with being very strong damagedealers as well. This have never been their purpose balance-wise.
MsNiL wrote:
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
MsNiL wrote:
The problem begins when a doc can take continous punishments along with being very strong damagedealers as well. This have never been their purpose balance-wise.
DOCTOR has no Offensive capability. The moment you start adding other professions to your template you have to look at it in terms of the template, not the profession. This is a mistake that leads to many nerfs. Target the TEMPLATE, not the profession. This is why Master Doctors & CMs are feeling the burn of this when it was an issue with DABBLERS.
I am.
Are you a Master Doctor? Then you would understand some of my concerns.
Am and have been for well over 2 years.
I amstating: The problem is when a Damage Dealer can cheaply pay no more than 63 skillpoints to get very strong heals. Talking in D&D terms, that's like a level 17 Fighter would add Level 3 Cleric and get Level 15 cleric heals together with his already strong damage capability.
I am saying that you should need alot more skillpoints invested in doctor to be able to heal the same amount.
I am not disagreeing with that. I have long been saying that they should have capped the power of each of the heals beneath the Advanced levels so that there would be some disparity between Master Doctor and "Doctor Dabbler."
To heal 2500-3000 damage in one second, you should need MASTER doctor. Master doctor costs 106 points, not 63.
Color me surprised if you can do that... but 2500 damage in one second? You're saying you should need MASTER Doctor for that? Wouldn't that be cool? But really, only a MASTER FORCE HEALER can heal that much in "ONE second." But hey, I'm all for giving that power to Master Doctors.
I am also saying that also going Master Medic/Master Doctor should be potentially better at healing.
It's therefore I am suggesting that the total healingpower should remain the same, but be spread out morein the Doctor tree.
This statement contradicts your previous statement that Master Medic + Master Doctor should be "potentially better" (I believe you mean "substantially" because it isn't "potentially" better... it "is" better, it just isn't "significantly" better). It's just that you start to hit diminishing returns after Doctor 4000.
Message Edited by MsNiL on 10-09-2005 11:16 PM
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
MsNiL wrote:
Are you a Master Doctor? Then you would understand some of my concerns.
Am and have been for well over 2 years.
Just for the record, I have always been a healer in roleplaying games. Been pen & paper roleplaying for the past 20 years. I am always a Cleric in Dungeons & Dragons.I will probably continue to be MDoc/MCM with Seani and MHealer with Seana as long as thoose professions remain in SWG. I have healer's best interest in mind really. Although I feel kinda useless when people request Master Pikemens for their group rather than Master Doctors.
I am not disagreeing with that. I have long been saying that they should have capped the power of each of the heals beneath the Advanced levels so that there would be some disparity between Master Doctor and "Doctor Dabbler."
Thanks. Then we understand eachother a bit more. And I agree.
Capping might not be enough though... The main issue IMO is Bacta Jab at novice doctor. It should have been placed in 0400 0040 0004 or master. It's when you combine Bacta Jab and Bacta Shot you get very efficient healing, while Bacta Shot stand-alone isnt that great.
Color me surprised if you can do that... but 2500 damage in one second? You're saying you should need MASTER Doctor for that? Wouldn't that be cool? But really, only a MASTER FORCE HEALER can heal that much in "ONE second." But hey, I'm all for giving that power to Master Doctors.
I am refering to Bacta Jab+Bacta Shot. I heal for 3k damage myself with Seani. And with her I have BactaSpray and BactaToss as well. A few times I have healed 4,5k in 2-3 seconds.
This statement contradicts your previous statement that Master Medic + Master Doctor should be "potentially better" (I believe you mean "substantially" because it isn't "potentially" better... it "is" better, it just isn't "significantly" better). It's just that you start to hit diminishing returns after Doctor 4000.
There's not much difference between 100 healing efficiency and 200 efficiency, although I probably can take that back. Simply having access to Bacta Toss, Bacta Shot, Bacta Spray, Bacta Jab and Bacta Infusion in one character is awesome.
Message Edited by MsNiL on 10-10-2005 12:09 AM
MsNiL wrote:
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
Color me surprised if you can do that... but 2500 damage in one second? You're saying you should need MASTER Doctor for that? Wouldn't that be cool? But really, only a MASTER FORCE HEALER can heal that much in "ONE second." But hey, I'm all for giving that power to Master Doctors.
I am refering to Bacta Jab+Bacta Shot. I heal for 3k damage myself with Seani. And with her I have BactaSpray and BactaToss as well. A few times I have healed 4,5k in 2-3 seconds.
Message Edited by MsNiL on 10-10-2005 12:09 AM
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
Bacta Jab and Bacta Shot both have 2 - 3 second cooldowns... you cannot heal for 3K in one second. Perhaps in 3 seconds. But again, only a Master Force Healer has a single heal ("one second") at that level of output.
Hmm. As far as I know they both have a 6 second cooldown, but since they do not share the same timer you can basicly use them on top of eachother. 3 seconds betweenis good enough for me though. I need to go in game and check this out later (and doublechecking the log afterwards).
Message Edited by MsNiL on 10-10-2005 04:31 AM
MsNiL wrote:
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
Bacta Jab and Bacta Shot both have 2 - 3 second cooldowns... you cannot heal for 3K in one second. Perhaps in 3 seconds. But again, only a Master Force Healer has a single heal ("one second") at that level of output.
Hmm. As far as I know they both have a 6 second cooldown, but since they do not share the same timer you can basicly use them on top of eachother. 3 seconds betweenis good enough for me though. I need to go in game and check this out later (and doublechecking the log afterwards).
Message Edited by MsNiL on 10-10-2005 04:31 AM
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
MsNiL wrote:
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
Bacta Jab and Bacta Shot both have 2 - 3 second cooldowns... you cannot heal for 3K in one second. Perhaps in 3 seconds. But again, only a Master Force Healer has a single heal ("one second") at that level of output.
Hmm. As far as I know they both have a 6 second cooldown, but since they do not share the same timer you can basicly use them on top of eachother. 3 seconds betweenis good enough for me though. I need to go in game and check this out later (and doublechecking the log afterwards).
Message Edited by MsNiL on 10-10-2005 04:31 AM
I may have used "cooldown" erroneously. What I mean is that when you use Bacta Jab or Shot you cannot use another ability, regardless of what that ability is, for 2 - 3 seconds. Bacta Shot has a 6 second "cooldown" and Jab has a 4, if I remember correctly.
I believe the time between heals is much the same as any other combat move. It will be a function of the weapon speed, speed buffs and mods.
For example, if I am a pistoleer holding a speed capped and speed puped pistol with doc AB I can cycle between heals faster than if I removed my weapon and used the default unarmed speed (assuming I am not a TK of course). I have tried this out a few times with my Pistols/bh/4000 cm.
So the funny part is that a 4000 doc with TK will be faster at healing than a master doc/cm.