Doctor Archive
Thread: CM's Nerfed, now it's our turn...
Ariven wrote:
Lexy wrote:
Enhances should increase your stats by X% of your base stats, rather than a set amount that's usually 3 times to 10 times your base stats. This will make stat selection actually important, maintain the racial stat differences, and improve combat dramatically.
Then the dancer and entertainr buffs need to be changed so that they dont always get 100% doubling, preferably by requring them to use gated and hard to get resources...
If we have to suffer from the varigries of resources make us on level footing with the entertainers who use no resources and can buff for zero cost.
Why? I think you are working under an assumption that if docs moved to a percetnage system, that we would be capped at a 100% increase. Suppose instead that every 100 points of current base buff power translated into 9% increase on a buff pack. So a 900 power buff pack becomes an 81% buff pack. All the same skill mods will apply, so at master doc, with a droid, BE clothes,and bivoli, this becomes roughly 225% increase.
225% is far more powerful than an entertainer buff. On a stat at 1000, this is still a 2250 power buff. The key difference between this buff and the way that buffs currently work is that I can't migrate all my stats to 1000. So I might get a 2250 health buff, but only get a 900 buff to my stamina. I have to make real choices in stat selection. If I want to be able to spam specials in armor, my secondaries have to be much higher than they are today and as a result, my health and action will be lower.
I am all for changing buffs to act as a percent of base stat.
I'm interested in having a balanced game.
I heard your argument.
I don't agree with them and explained why.
You don't agree with mine and try to make me look like a fool.
Let's close that here.
It's indeed a waste of time.
Lexy wrote:
Enhances should increase your stats by X% of your base stats, rather than a set amount that's usually 3 times to 10 times your base stats. This will make stat selection actually important, maintain the racial stat differences, and improve combat dramatically.
I agree with you. They will need to adjust humans though. Right now humans have all the advantages with stat migration.
Happymob wrote:
Ariven wrote:
Lexy wrote:
Enhances should increase your stats by X% of your base stats, rather than a set amount that's usually 3 times to 10 times your base stats. This will make stat selection actually important, maintain the racial stat differences, and improve combat dramatically.Then the dancer and entertainr buffs need to be changed so that they dont always get 100% doubling, preferably by requring them to use gated and hard to get resources...
If we have to suffer from the varigries of resources make us on level footing with the entertainers who use no resources and can buff for zero cost.Why? I think you are working under an assumption that if docs moved to a percetnage system, that we would be capped at a 100% increase. Suppose instead that every 100 points of current base buff power translated into 9% increase on a buff pack. So a 900 power buff pack becomes an 81% buff pack. All the same skill mods will apply, so at master doc, with a droid, BE clothes, and bivoli, this becomes roughly 225% increase.
225% is far more powerful than an entertainer buff. On a stat at 1000, this is still a 2250 power buff. The key difference between this buff and the way that buffs currently work is that I can't migrate all my stats to 1000. So I might get a 2250 health buff, but only get a 900 buff to my stamina. I have to make real choices in stat selection. If I want to be able to spam specials in armor, my secondaries have to be much higher than they are today and as a result, my health and action will be lower.
I am all for changing buffs to act as a percent of base stat.
I operate under that assumption because I have no belief that the DEVs would do something right. Time and time again they prove that when they mess up, they mess up bad (but when they do something good, they do come up with some nice stuff). I can easily see the logic train of: Hmm, buffs need reduction to "balance" them, wait, entertainers only double stats, lets cap doctor buffs at double stats....
Until something otherwise is actually put into place and is reasonably bug free I will expect the worse from ANY attempt by the devs to "Balance" a system as significant as buffs. And no, them -telling- us that they are going to do it a specific way wouldn't make me feel any better.. for that I just have to point at the comment by TH that Jedi robes would have hidden resists and be as good as composite armor...
They have a long standing history of doing things their way without considering how things operate in the game in reality... and that scares me when they start stomping on the source code.
Gavvot wrote:
I'm not interested in having the last word.
I'm interested in having a balanced game.
I heard your argument.
I don't agree with them and explained why.
You don't agree with mine and try to make me look like a fool.
Let's close that here.
It's indeed a waste of time.
Yes yes, you're right it is a waste of time. /sigh
Look sorry I blew up at you, not your fault, I'm just tired.
Let's agree to disagree and I'll say this::
Whatever changes they make, I hope they are better tested than previous alterations; now if your suggestion does get tested and is found to work then I'll happily eat my words. Trouble is we all know testing isn't approached as rigorously as it ought to be, and I think the CB is going to need more than a buff band aid to fix.
Gift.
DoctorGriggs wrote:
Lexy wrote:
Enhances should increase your stats by X% of your base stats, rather than a set amount that's usually 3 times to 10 times your base stats. This will make stat selection actually important, maintain the racial stat differences, and improve combat dramatically.
I agree with you. They will need to adjust humans though. Right now humans have all the advantages with stat migration.
Hmm yeswookies spring to mind? They have less flexable pools but more HAM overall, I could see that being a headache eitherway.
Gift.
Giftmacher wrote:Yes yes, you're right it is a waste of time. /sigh
Look sorry I blew up at you, not your fault, I'm just tired.
Let's agree to disagree and I'll say this::
Whatever changes they make, I hope they are better tested than previous alterations; now if your suggestion does get tested and is found to work then I'll happily eat my words. Trouble is we all know testing isn't approached as rigorously as it ought to be, and I think the CB is going to need more than a buff band aid to fix.
Gift.
A great conclusion to this endless argument.
/bow.
And I apologize too, I probably have been rude more than once on this.
And I totally agree for the test part.
That's why I have some characters on TC (BTW, you can have 3 char on TC, nothing to unlock for that).
Let's just hope JTL will get out of the way soon so we'll have live testers back on the job.
Funny thing is making armor encumbrance based on percetnages would fix armor as well. If a 800/800/800 encumbrance triple-layer composite suit became a 80%/80%/80% suit (reducing your stat, includng buffs, by 80%), you would instantly make it impossible to spam specials in a heavy suit of armor and make all the lighter suits useful, depending on the situation. The drawback to 90% sliced armor would be a 50% (or more) reduction in offense due toreduced use of specials.
DoctorGriggs wrote:
Combination of things - buffs are part of it - but so is 90% armor and damage mitigation.
2) DWB is near impossible to do at the moment, even with armour at 80%, a maxed out group of masters, and buffs at 2500. How are we meant to do it with the nerfs unless we have a group of master jedi?!??!
1) Well, Jedi use the same buff as everyone I think (not sure, I'm not aJedi fan).
2) believe it or not, in the bunker a group with about 4 or 5 tank with substandard buff and everybody know what they're doing, it isn't very hard.
I even know some group that managed to reach crafting room with 1 tank taking All the aggro.
And a small group is usally more effective than a 20 master group. Check with all the group that crafter mandalorian armor.
But once buff and armor at toned down, indeed, some of the mob will have to be adjusted too.
And both should need towned down.
90% resist to anything is silly.
It's as stupid as 100% resist on some mobs.
Mejowepra wrote:
To sum up the major issues in SWG today;
- unlimited healing available to anyone spending a few points. Due to armor/regen rates, even novice medic can heal self in most situations.
- Insane amount of damage reduction due to armor. Especailly in pvp situations where you already get 75% removed.
- Insane regen rates and infinite action spamming abilities.
- Possibly: Templates that makes you virtually impossible to hit and/or damage, however this is somewhat fixed today.
- Massive buffs and armor available to EVERYONE regardless of skill level.
What is NOT a problem in swg today:
- Size of HAM bars (primaries). This game, if anything, needs larger pools for high end players. We have the same ham when fighting 100 hp bunnies as when fighting 300k HAM or more highend content. Only way this works today is due to the inherit flaws mentioned
above.
So. The last point above in regards to buffs/armor availability, I was thinking that perhaps we need certifications on both or either of these. Today doctor has three useless buff pack levels, A-C. no one wants a subpar buff, noob or not. Why not... make it so a noob can not get buffed or can only get A's? And as they progress, they get access to better buffs.
Now, how this would work could be questioned. On one end setting the "buff you can use" based on available skill points (the less you have unused, the better buffs you can get), would seem to be fair since crafters could get benefit of better buffs. On the other hand it's easily abused as well (get all novice boxes etc). Putting certs in combat profession trees would be unfair to a degree to non-combat players (but i'd argue that a non-combat profession shouldn't really run around with 3-4k ham bars anyway, that's not their role). A third alternative is to base cert on number of elite profession boxes. Again though this would let an artisan or entertainer get 4k buffs with their novice marksman skill and that would be unbalancing.
I think this is my preference: Spread out buff certifications in all novice and elite combat trees. Don't forget classes typically involved incombat such as medics, docs, cm's, ch's. Also spread out lesser ones in ELITE non-combat profs.
Although this isnt' a well presented idea I think that limiting buff pack strength of even max effect from a buff (i.e you get a 3k buff but only see 600 of it since you're too low level) would drastically improve the gameplay and make it "less easy" and also more fair. The main issue lies in how this would be balanced. Without a linear "level" system, things like this get a lot more complicated.
/agree with these points anyhow. I'd like to see the packs spread for a player certified to get them. I believe this to be the best idea I've heard yet, armor certs seems alittle excessive and extremely problematic IMO, but certs for A, B, C, and D packs being applied to a person as they progress is an EXCELLENT idea in my view. Something to the effect of B's being the max for any base profession, C's at novice for a novice elite one, and D's for someone who is at 4 in one of the branches for each elite.
Very nice. Now if they would just adopt this....
Calo1224 wrote:
Isn't this all basically fallout because of armor? If it wasn't for the amazing resists but awful encumbrances of armor, we wouldn't need uber buffs. If it wasn't for the uber buffs, people wouldn't need uber DoT's too take others down in PvP. It's an endless cycle.
I remember how much better this game was when people had 40-50% comp and 800 to each stat buffs and actually have to group together to do things. Now instead we have people running around in 90% special/88% base composite, with 2500+ buffs soloing everything. All these nerfs will be great for the game. It will make people have to group to take on the elite mobs like Nightsisters, Krayts etc but still able to solo lesser mobs if they want.
I kind of lost my point there but I think most players who have been around since last summer know what I mean.
I also forgot to add that the only solution we have to these problems as of now is the super mobs like NS elders (now that they use stun batons and force powers), SBDs, and the guys in the DWB who are next to impossible to take on even with a well prepared group. That never should have been the answer. Hopefully with the revamp these mobs will be dropped back to reasonable difficulty levels that would require a group to take them on but not mean instant death for the entire group.