Doctor Archive
Thread: CM's Nerfed, now it's our turn...
Gavvot wrote:
Right but it doesn't cost entertainers major cash to make their buffs, it does for Docs so we should have some benefit.
That is exactly what I just said.
Doc should have some benefit, but NOT in the amount of stat buff.
Yes and that's exactly why I disagree, medicine should be more powerful not only is it meant to concrete science not asthetic but it also requires a great deal more effort to produce our buffs.
But everything else can be self applied, doctors give special care and services these ought to be better than a quick snack or drink. How the buffs balance depends on how much damage a pool takes in combat, not on direct comparbility between strengths. Doctors are trained medical staff, chefs make a lot of effort but they are nevertheless cooks and therefore should not have comparable health enhacing capapbility to Doctors (we are after all supposed to have PhDs in physiology and medicine).
Entertainer also give special care and services to cutomser.
I'll leave all the real life stuff out of it because it isn't real life, it's a game and we're discussing game mechanism.
No RL will have a bearing on the matter, it doesn't have to be stuck to but nevertheless Doctor is a technical profession Entertainer is not. Doctor implies a deep physiological understanding and direct patient care Entertainer does not. What we do should have some relationship to the RL expectations of a doc. Entertainers dancing in front of a customer does not constitue special care (and certainly not while healing several other spectators). I'm sorry but you cannot give one profession everything their way there has to be draw backs.
Weapons are not balanced, nor is the HAM cost, if that were true every combat profession would be a good choice for PvP. Last I checked Riflemen and a handfull of others ruled the roost, wanna try a fistful of dollers? Who would win out of a rifleman vs a pistoleer...
Play any combat profession unbuffed and you'll see that HAM cost is balanced.
The funny thing in this is your exemple.
PvP, Rifleman vs Pistoleer, both unbuffed, the pistoleer win almost all the time.
LOL that's
a, not what I meant people are buffed in PvP so you are distorting what I asked and know it
b, you proved my point anyway unbuffed you can lay money on the pistoleer everytime therefore not balanced.
c. and if we want to talk unbuffed and balance Rifleman and carbineer eat through HAM like no one's buisness they will always peg it first, how is that blanaced? You've defeated your own argument.
The reason of imbalance in combat profession in PvP and PvE is the doc buff.
Play them unbuffed, and you won't be able to argue on that.
Play them unbuffed and you'll last 2 seconds, but then if Durni and swoopers are your thing...
Alas not the aren't even the powerful rifleman is near impossible to play with out buffs and carbineer most certainly is, but like I say go see their forums if you don't believe me or better still go out in a group with them.
Yes they are.
You just have to keep in mind that you aren't supposed to spam speical all the time.
Play an unbuffed TKA, even in PvE.
Spamming specials, you'll drop dead against almost everything.
LOL I'm talking hit the special once or twice, then you're down, anything worth fighting especially Stormtroopers will wipe you out. Besides what happened to you can solo everything unbuffed that you can buffed? Sorry but I've res'ed enough unbuffed riflemen and carbineers to know that isn't the case even in groups.
Chefs make mind buffing brandy all the time, and it sells well. Why is it a problem that some of their stuff doesn't sell as well? Even if the buffs were comparable you can only eat/drink so much to buff the chef way, and you're stuffed if you want food resists on top of that too, so people will always use their heads and get doc buffs of the Health/action stats to leave their stomachs empty for other enhancements. Regardless, chef buffs are food not medicine so should not be as strong, they are also self applied and to be honest I doubt many people would support your giving one thing every last break there is; why should chef buffs be self applied, of equal strength to doc buffs and stackable?
Currently, because of doc buff, people do not have to make choice in food they use.
So they don't.
Last time I checked, none of the chef food last 3 hours, and with balanced doc buff, you don't have any kind of chance to make better than a doc with only food.
Needless to say doc buff + Food will still own everything.
Right, and even with modification "doc buff + Food will still own everything" so that is no kind of argument Lexy's sugestion of% would solve this, not your idea of making buffs directly comparable. Sorry but while chef fod may only last 40 mins you can rebuff (and stack) almost straight away with out finding a chef to do it. When people have to go find a chef to applyu their buffs then you can use that argument.
f, in pretty much the same state it's in, same problem different causes i.e. broken combat specials costing a few professions disproportionate HAM, way way out of scale high end mobs etc. etc
The ham cost is not disproportionate between professions.
Some profession have ham cost based on mind, others on health others on action.
The imbalance between Health Action and Mind due to overpowered doc buff create the profession imbalance and make all the profession on wich HAM cost is mind based sux.
My profession is mind based, it does not sux.and as I've outlined above HAM cost is no blanced the way you say it is.
BTW just what combat profession are you and how high, theres no way you are telling me you can solo the same level of mob unbuffed as buffed regardless of what you are, it's one of the main reasons people are crying nerf as it is!
Did almost every melee, some pistol with smuggler, and starting rifle.
I don't grind, so I have a pretty good idea of what can each profession fight at each level, and at every level, different profession can take the same kind of mob.
Yeah rabbits, swoopers and not much else. (and nope I can take on meaner mobs as a pistoleer than my equivalent in rifles and Carbines can, in comparison I can whack speicals all day long and fan shot more than makes up for the lack of weapon power) This is where we have a problem, no buffs = no decent combat right now. I can take Lv25 difficulty missons off of terminals that I have no hope of completing unbuffed right now. I can't earn many credits starting at the sky and cloning so I have to buff to play.
Except with buff.
The profession on wich HAM cost is based on health or action can take much higher than the one based on mind.
That is the problem, and that's what should be fixed.
That is one problem, but you are not really suggesting its fix. You're just suggesting making life a similar misery for those professions.
The fact is every profession has a different way of playing, and if you play a pistoleer like you play a TKA, your pistoleer will sux.
But it's not because the TKA is overpowered, it's because it's easier to play, and you don't use the right tactics for your pistoleer.
Same also work the other way, if you play a TKA just like you play a rifleman, he'll sux.
Er no, Easier to play perhaps, but why? coul;d it be because only about 3 of my specials work? There's so many things need to be fixed that your band aid soultion will do little or nothing to put the fun back in the game. And don't make me laugh about the tactics, what tactics? Shoot run, shoot run? or run hit run hit? This is not a tactically taxing game,tactics when they do come into play come in as preparation i.e. armour and buffs. Don't confuse the organisation needed for places like the vette and DW bunker with the rest of the game.
Gift
Well, yeah, go disagree.
How about an argument based on game mechanism and not your phylosophical view of doctor?
How about comparing doc buff pack to food schematics?
No RL will have a bearing on the matter, it doesn't have to be stuck to but nevertheless Doctor is a technical profession Entertainer is not. Doctor implies a deep physiological understanding and direct patient care Entertainer does not. What we do should have some relationship to the RL expectations of a doc. Entertainers dancing in front of a customer does not constitue special care (and certainly not while healing several other spectators).
Philosphical argument, nothing to do with game mechanism.
That's what you think, that doesn't help.
I'm sorry but you cannot give one profession everything their way there has to be draw backs.
Exactly my point.
LOL that's
a, not what I meant people are buffed in PvP so you are distorting what I asked and know it
b, you proved my point anyway unbuffed you can lay money on the pistoleer everytime therefore not balanced.
c. and if we want to talk unbuffed and balance Rifleman and carbineer eat through HAM like no one's buisness they will always peg it first, how is that blanaced? You've defeated your own argument.
a. And problem come from the buff...
b. Because pistoleer is easier to play, if the rifleman know what he's doing, he'll win all the time.
c. obviously, we don't play the same game.
Play them unbuffed and you'll last 2 seconds, but then if Durni and swoopers are your thing...
If you don't like the tactics you have to use in ranged profession, then go melee.
If you want to be a rifleman that can stand still while someone else beat the crap out of him and do his insane amount of damage, well sorry, but you have no idea what balance is.
LOL I'm talking hit the special once or twice, then you're down, anything worth fighting especially Stormtroopers will wipe you out. Besides what happened to you can solo everything unbuffed that you can buffed? Sorry but I've res'ed enough unbuffed riflemen and carbineers to know that isn't the case even in groups.
As you said, LOL.
Right, and even with modification "doc buff + Food will still own everything" so that is no kind of argument Lexy's sugestion of % would solve this, not your idea of making buffs directly comparable. Sorry but while chef fod may only last 40 mins you can rebuff (and stack) almost straight away with out finding a chef to do it. When people have to go find a chef to applyu their buffs then you can use that argument.
To be more specific, buff+ the right food corresponding with the weapon/profession of the character using it and his ennemy will always own.
% based is ok for me, but as long as it is comparable.
Otherwise, indeed, all the profession and weapon ham cost should be completely revamped.
Maybe the reason this combat revamp is so delayed...
That is one problem, but you are not really suggesting its fix. You're just suggesting making life a similar misery for those professions.
That is the main problem of the ocmbat system of this game.
And all I'm asking is fixing it.
And I think, based on my experience of playing unbuffed almost all the time that the buff is the problem.
You're not suggesting anything to help that, you're just arguing to still have powerfull buff, because power is good.
Think.
Er no, Easier to play perhaps, but why? coul;d it be because only about 3 of my specials work? There's so many things need to be fixed that your band aid soultion will do little or nothing to put the fun back in the game. And don't make me laugh about the tactics, what tactics? Shoot run, shoot run? or run hit run hit? This is not a tactically taxing game,tactics when they do come into play come in as preparation i.e. armour and buffs. Don't confuse the organisation needed for places like the vette and DW bunker with the rest of the game.
If those are the only tactics you know, I can understand why you hate so much your profession and you want so much big buff.
And it's funny that you speak about DWB and corvette, the only place balanced with buff atm.
To sum it up, you complain about the imbalance between profession.
You accept to see that the buff is a part of the problem.
But you don't want them to be balanced.
And doc buff must be more powerfull because of your vision based on RL of what a doc and an entertainer is don't fit with the reality of this game.
The only option for you is keeping whinning, because following that path, it's the only place where it lead.
Lexy wrote:
Enhances should increase your stats by X% of your base stats, rather than a set amount that's usually 3 times to 10 times your base stats. This will make stat selection actually important, maintain the racial stat differences, and improve combat dramatically.
Then the dancer and entertainr buffs need to be changed so that they dont always get 100% doubling, preferably by requring them to use gated and hard to get resources...
If we have to suffer from the varigries of resources make us on level footing with the entertainers who use no resources and can buff for zero cost.
Message Edited by Ariven on 08-05-2004 09:53 AM
Mejowepra wrote:
If armors are nerfed (we know they will be and they should be) in addition to stats (via buffs or what not) we might very well get into the same situation again, where no thing is doable without a meatshield (think hits for 1-5k or more, basically killing players in 1-4 hits).
Some MOBs are hitting for more than 10k now, with 5k getting past armor... makeing them very hard to take in a group even with a tank.
If buffs are drastically reduced, then those MOBs that can one-shot everyone in the game need to be adjusted to allow a reasonable chance for a group to take them.
the long and the short of it is that because of the buffs we are so overpowered that PvE isn't fun anymore
******************************
I'm always unclear on how dying and cloning are defined as fun. I disagree, it's BECAUSE of the buffs PvE is a good time.
Lexy wrote:
Enhances should increase your stats by X% of your base stats, rather than a set amount that's usually 3 times to 10 times your base stats. This will make stat selection actually important, maintain the racial stat differences, and improve combat dramatically.
Another F*&^in whiney CM dependant noob !
nuff said
Entertainer 0/0/4/4 + Novice Dancer
Copied over from the GCW forums
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
I have no problem with making Doctor buffs a percentage of Stats "like entertainer buffs."
So ... are Doctor buffs no longer going to costs resources to administer -- "like Entertainer buffs"? 'Cause I can buff someone with Dancer 4/0/0/0 Entertainer 0/0/4/4 (orbuffall 3 with Dancer 4/0/0/0 Musician4/0/0/0 Entertainer 0/4/4/4) at no resource cost whereas I needDoctor 0/4/4/4 (wound treatment,med use,crafting) + Master Medic + money to buy resources off the bazaar or a vender, a crafting tool, a crafting station, and a factory to make components (some require factory components). It costs me per-charge to buff a group. A Dancer / Musician can buff a whole group simultaneously, again, at no cost. For optimum buffing, a 110 Droid and Bivoli is also required.
So... if you want to cap these things at 100% of the base stat, you're going to have to compensate for that somehow.
I say 300% base Stats (Health & action) and cap secondaries at 100% (to keep armor-penalties in). Secondaries , then , should also be easier to craft, and less expensive resource-wise.
- This way people aren't one-shot wonders once armor resists are dropped.
--
Oh, and buffs aren't theonly "deciding factor" in PvP. I stand almost no chance of killing someone in 90% armor with a 50% stun PSG if they are a Fencer Rifleman, or if that person is a Jedi, regardless of whether or not they're buffed. Your "all things being equal" assumes we're all carbon-copy D-stacker clones.
Some people need to PvP without armor more.
Message Edited by TenshiHanaKinu on 08-05-2004 08:33 PM
Gavvot wrote:
Don't throw your rattle out of the pram just because I don't agree with you. But seen as you ask I'll clarify for you my argument is as follows:
You want RP aspect in this, ok, RL doctor = people that don't know what you have most of the time but know generic tools to have a chance to succeed, and are trainer to look as confident as possible in front of a patient.
Musician : Someone that took years to learn an art that can revive your soul.
Help you?
LMAO if you say so, bearing in mind Iin RL i'm a scientist looking for cures I'm going to difer significantly from your idiotic view of Dr.s/ Want to talk biological diagnosis and cure, go ahead; I'll hand you your head in a basket so be warned.
This is a game, the the combat system is a game mechanism.
In game mechanism doc are characters that build buff pack, buff player for money and heal tumbler for xp. Period.
That ma be what a ho,lo whole like you does but I've gopt news for you the people who post here have a genuine interest in the prof.
Doc buffs require a patient to wait for you to administer the buff and so should provide a greater benefit for the inconvenience cf. chef buffs.
Chef buff last much less time than doc buff, overall boost stats much less than doc buff even if they were cut in half, and stomach don't empty when you die, a buff doc can be applied right away.
Entertainer buff last much less time to apply, require 2 different profession to buff primary and secondaries, and take much more time to apply than doc buff.
Spice have downer time, only 1 spice is allowed, and none of the spice don't mutliply 6 of your stat by a factor from 4 to 10.
Oh scramble for excuses. did I or did I not point out chef buffs stack? and Did I or did I not point out that ents could have longer duration without my objection? Stiull amusing to see you back peddle. BTW yes Smuggler buffs have a downer but then they are self applied so I'm ok with that too, they traid off power and convenience for downer, Fine I'm happy np. Little tip for you know your oponents opioon before BSing.
Doc buffs cannot be stacked so should provide a greater benefit cf. Chef buffs.
Last time I checked, doc were able to apply 6 buff on someone.
Try to eat as much food as you can to have a total increase in your stat that is half of what a doctor can do.
Last time I checked Chefs could buff every stat, Docs can't. Chefs need some limit, again you prove your poor reasoning on the matter. I guess I;ll write it off to english not being your native tounge.
Doc buffs require resources and time to produce so should be more powerful than Entertainer buffs.
Chef food and spice require resource too.
Which is why I sugest they should be strong buffs; however, they can stack Docs can't so for a single buff docs should be stronger.
Entertainer can't use any of their skill in combat.
And this has what to do with buffs? Niether can chefs should we nerf them too? What dire nonsense, I can cure poison/disease and res but do I get paid? no. Does it help people who die in combat? No. can I res myself? NO. So your point is?
Entertainer can heal mind wound and battle fatigue.
Good for them I can heal wounds too (again at resource cost that no one pays me for.
To be able to buff primary and secondaries, they need much more skill point than a doc.
Heh so make buffing require more doc points, most people on this board will suport you including myself.
Their buff last less time than doc buff, are much lower AND take much more time to apply.
LOL except you can buff groups quicker this way, while simultaneously healing people ( I can'tdo either.) Besides I've already said I don't object to a duration increace so your objection is?
I've not seen you give a good reason why this shouldn't be so other than a vague notion that it will help chefs sell more buffs. I agree with lexy's assessment and it will do more for balance than your suggestion will. You just want to excessively penalise doctors, now if we can make self applied buffs then I might agree with you, but then what's left to distinguish a doc buff from anything else, zip and no matter what you think a game is more than a hack and slash dice roll what about a little content that makes you feel like you're actually a doc? Besides what you suggest will still result in professions over buffing their most heavily taxed stat, they'll just use a combination of doc, ent and food buffs in a fashion not disimilar to what we have now so back to square 1 namely fix HAM.
Because standing in coronet to apply buff make you feel like a doc?
LMAO, know your enemy child, I don't do that kind of thing so nope. In fact I'd appreciate anything that gont me back into a serious combat healing role.
How about healing wounds?
I'd like to see medics, but not docs getting paid for this, but as it stands none of us get paid for this becuase people like yourself are too tight to pay uip/ (and here's where I get really annoyed medic is a major charity profession because miserable swine are too tight fisted to tip; docs at least have buffs.)
How about healing damage and states and poison and disease in a battle?
Sure tip me and my prof for it tight wad.
Don't talk rubbish, you just chose to ignore that aspect of the profession (despite this being an RPG I might add) and as I've said I've presented more than a purely intelectual argument for the matter, namely time/effort/cost/convenience.
1) Rp aspect : Combat system is a system, it's math, nothing else.
LOL yeah what rubbish, and if that's the best counter you have I've got news for you; don't play an RPG. Stick to whatever FPS you've been playing previously/
2) time/effort/cost/convenience : funny really, try to make a master musician as fast as you can make master doc.
Try again when looping macro goes byebye.
HAHA Give me a vbreak try the crafting grind to get master, don't blame docs because your prof is difficult to master. Pewrsonally I look on the achievement with pride rather than bat others over the head because you don't think it was easy enough for your cas gaming tastes.
Try spending hours in a place, with about 20 people that have the same skill as you standing right next to you to make money.
Try spending months looking for people to heal and gain XP. I could have grinded the prof. but unlike you I wanted a sense of achievement togo with my progression.
time for doc : low, effort : low, cost : high, convenience : high.
for entertainer : time : high, effort : high, :cost : low, convenience : low.
Looks ok to me.
Yeah I'm sure all that afk time in Cnet and others is sooooo hard to do. Give us a break little man I hear a whine because someone wanted instant gratification here; well tough you're not getting it.
Right so let's get this straight, we are to hang around in person for long stretches of time selling our services and spend the rest of that time searching for large amounts of resourses and/or paying a small fortune for them but not have our buffs be any more effective than chefs (who don't have to do the former) or ents (who don't have to do the latter. Am I missing something here? Which bit of us having reduced strength but slightly more powerful buffs is having it all our own way?
I guess for you, the only thing that make a combat profession more powerfull than an other is it's damage output.
Not listening again are we? No combat profs are made powerful by the lay off between HAM cost and damage. not all have this balance right, but you ignore it as long as you're alright jack eh?
No
Did you PvP unbuffed vs unbuffed?
So why argue, you don't know what you're talking about.
EEEE wrong answer, had you tried head to head you'd know exactly why/who and how PvP is ruled by different profs (buffed unbuffed) for different reasons. As it is I get hot air but no concrete rebuttle from you as to whyysome porfs are better than others on different contitions. Even if I did get a rebuttle YOU asserted that all profs were balanced, so there should be no clear winner! Caught up in your own BS I think. Whoops eh?
And no again. you're still defeating your own argument but now you've decided to change your view again! Now riflemen will win all the time but it's balanced?
I'm not defeating my own argument.
Not that hard to understand really.
When a combat system is balanced, each profession have equal chance to win.
However, some profession are easier to use than others.
Pistoleer is easier to master (not the title, the actual player skill) than rifleman.
So, pistoleer has a better chance.
But if the rifleman know what he's doing and pistoleer don't, he'll win all the time.
That's what is balance.
LOL can I quote you on that? "some profession are easier to use than others" Keep digging.
Let's try this one children resolve the following contradictory starements:
"When a combat system is balanced, each profession have equal chance to win."
"So, pistoleer has a better chance.
But if the rifleman know what he's doing and pistoleer don't, he'll win all the time.
That's what is balance."
Might I suggest you try logic?
Obviously we don't, I know exactly who I have to res most often for mind wastage, and I know if they're not buffed it's Riflemen and Carbineers. Like I say though why not pop over and ask them about it? I bet I know what they tell you.
You're defeating your own argument here.
If it's only because of mind, either mind buff aren't powerfull enough or health and action buff are too powerfull.
PvE experience tell me that it's the second, not the first.
LOL and we;re back here are we?
I know exactly who I have to res most often for mind wastage, and I know if they're not buffed it's Riflemen and Carbineers.
Whoops, taking my example of how "not buffed= balanced" is drivel and using it to BS the exact opposite?
Might I suggest reading a sentence before you erroniously quote it? LOL don't be a fool and admit you were wrong, no buffs does not equal balance profs.
LOL I'm not a rifleman, and you know what I'm saying is true, unbuffed you can take any prof and only be able to take oin a fraction of the mobs out there. BTW Do share these wonderful unbuffed solo tactics with me I'd love to hear them...
You said you were pistoleer, didn't knew it was melee.
As for the portion of mobs out there, it's true for ALL the combat profession.
As for the tactics, I don't wanna waste your fun, go on and try to find them all by yourself, that is part of the fun, being uber is not.
So why did say: "If you want to be a rifleman"?
Surely you weren't trying to distort my stand point?
And prortions of mobs pros are able to tackle is not the same period. For example unbuffed pistollers HAM costs make it much more of a force to be recond with.
Whoops on the tactics eh? Caught in your own BS again. Well done.
What's up run out of answers? Or do you admit the heavy HAM costs of these professions mean you don't even need to spam specials to earn an incap unbuffed?
as I said LOL.
There is no point in agruing here, as you play only buffed and I play almost only unbuffed.
HAHA again you assume and assume wrong, you truely are very very foolish. Establish the facts before you treat them as so, I usually play grouped and unbuffed (a two person team minimal). I'm a doc remember, not whatever combat prof you usually whore.
A simple question, do you think the HAM cost of a TKA is high?
LOL not as far as I know, but is the Carbineer prof and rifleman prof HAM cost too high to play unbuffed? Heh, some professions may have it better than others but fixing combat for everyone should be the goal not just the profs you think need attention.
if no, I guess he can spam specials all the time when unbuffed right.
BTW spamming is one reason why the combat system is getting a revamp, also TKAs can buff themselves, or dd you forget thet little fact? You can paint the picture I'm against rebalance all you like It won't change the fact you are lying.
Why don't you make one and try. Or ask a friend to do it and watch him be killed by a shaprnaut.
LOL which he shouldn't be able to solo? But can with buffs, opps forget that can solo anything without claim again? LMAO don't tar me with your idiotic claims of unbuffed uberness; they are your stupid claim not mine.
Hurrah we reach agreement!
Either you missed what I wrote and we wasted alot of forum space for nothing or we don't.
I never said I was against % based, as long a doc buff are comparable or very close to ent buff.
You said:
"Otherwise, indeed, all the profession and weapon ham cost should be completely revamped.
Maybe the reason this combat revamp is so delayed.."
Well done Einstein, you've finally understood the problem! Buffs are not comparable, when you make it so I can buff with out like an ent, or hand buffsout for later use, then buffs will be comparable. Until then get a grip and understand your paper thin ideas are junk.
Er no, you're not listening to me, I'm saying in it's current state buffs make a bad combat system playable. I'm not saying the buffs shouldn't be made weaker, but considering the time and effort doc buffs require I still think they should be a little stronger. And here is why:
and I say current combat system is fine and buff break it.
LMAO suit yourself, you just head out to the NS caves and give it a go then. Or better still find somepeople to try unbuffed PvP with. Don't forget to clone first.
Resources - we need them for our buffs so they should be stronger. Now if chefs want to play that card them fine, but as they can stack one of our buffs should still be more powerful than one of there's.
I never said doc buff should be less powerfull than chef buff.
Do the math, 6 stats, 2.5K increase in each.
Total : 15K increase from doc buff.
Try to reach let's say 5K total increase with food.
Whoops arguing for a change that would make buffs comparable using the curent syttem as an example" Did I say keep the current system? NO. Did I say whatever the new system a non-stackable Doc buff should be better than a single chef buff? Yes. Face it you've BS'ed yourself into a hole, give it up; you cannot justify busting the major income scource ofa Doc this way. 1 Doc buff should not = one chef food consumption. Like I said you've a poor arguement for dumping on docs with no benefits.
Time, we've got to hang around to ply our wares and people have to come to us, chefs don't so we should have much longer duration buffs. Now if ent's want to play that card then I'm also fine with that give them duration.
Chef don't if they do have a shop, wich require skill point and maintenance cost.
Something doc don't have to care about.
LMAO Chefs get shops that earn money even when they aren't there, and now you are compliaing about the skill point and maint cost? What do you want sales for free? Go cry somewhere else, I fail to see why you should not pay for that advantage.
LOL yeah and you're tactics for taking on storm troopers unbuffed are? Don't BS me, less specials actually means less tactical options either way you cut it and the scope for solo tactics is meagre to say the least. If you know different then by all means enlighten us with your tactical mastery, otherwise admit shooting and running away is about as good as it gets.
Never occured to you to think that in a Massive Multiplayer game at least some of the content was ment to be dealt by a group and not a single character?
LMAO so why is that content the minimum available to me when I'm solo? LOL If I need to make a few main creds I'd happily do a weaker mission, but that option is not available to me. If I group I wish to do it with friends, I pay for the game as much as you do so why not? Why should I befored into playing with l33+ d00ds like yourself every night? I've got to put up with your OT whinging on this forum as it is, and there's no rules to say people must group (risking the likes of your company) all the time. You're just going to have to accept the fact people don't want to put up with the likes of you and be forced to group in a game. People pay for choice, you don't like it well head off to a MMO like Savagethat requires the grouping you want.
To sum it up, you complain about the imbalance between profession.
And you deny it.
Your missing a big part of what I'm saying here, the subject of the thread.
profession a imbalanced to hell when buffed and perfectly balanced when unbuffed.
Doesn't that help you seeing where is the problem?
LOL I might see a problem if you didn't contradict yourself, wantme to remind you?
"When a combat system is balanced, each profession have equal chance to win."
"So, pistoleer has a better chance.
But if the rifleman know what he's doing and pistoleer don't, he'll win all the time.
That's what is balance."
Conundrum eh?
You accept to see that the buff is a part of the problem.
Wrong I accept buffs are part of the problem and so need to be altered along with other problems.
Never said it was the only problem.
I said, and still say that it is the main problem, and that fixing it will make the fixing of all the other problems much easier.
But you make a Ppoor case for it being the main problem, see above.
But you don't want them to be balanced.
Wrong again, I want them balanced and buffs balanced, don't warp what I have to say on the matter, I've been very clear.
As long as doc buff are much more powerfull than entertainer buff, it will be imbalanced.
Maybe you cannot admit it, but it's a mathematical fact.
All the other part of the combat system have been implemented based on the assumption that health action and mind are equal.
Playing unbuffed make that very clear.
Look I don't care what you are jealous of, the fact remains Doc needs some renumeration for the methods and resources we need for buffs. In anycase I never said much more powerful anything, I said slightly more powerful you've just chosen to B*tch about this idea.
And doc buff must be more powerfull because of your vision based on RL of what a doc and an entertainer is don't fit with the reality of this game.
Wrong yet again, I think the RL/RPG dynamic is just one aspect of it; you've totally chosen to ignore my other points.
one apsect of it, but only for the doc.
I didn't chose to ignore them, they just make me laugh.
You choose to totaly ignore the fact that doctor can do much more than buffing, chef and entertainer can do much less than a doc, but that, you don't wanna see.
LOL and so we have the crux of the matter an l33+ f00l heal bent on leveling at the expense of RP. Got news for you the game isn't for you. Besides, when a tight fisted swine like you pays me for heals/res/cure then I'll take your selfish butt seriously (because while we can do more I'll bet you give us very little for it). But all the while people like you think Docs are just there to give you a pick me up after a good gaming experience you can bite me. I appreciate both ents and Chefs (as a fellow buffer/healer) so I give them their due, I do not try to rip them off for their one profitable income stream (unlike you).
So says the person who's come onto the Doc forum to whine and troll about one of our abilitites while demonstarting a supreme lack of understanding when it comes to the game dynamics. I've attempted to reason with you not complain, just because you can't decide whether the combat is balanced or not or who would win various unbuffed combats don't take it out on me.
Excuse me, but it's you that turned this into a troll.
Then why are you hear to discuss a core sytems issue?
And I never whined.
Not much! Don't lie! I'ts all there palin as day.
"If the doc buff weren't so powerfull, the player would have to make a choice : do I buff mind twice, or mind and action or mind an health or health and action?. (50% filling on each and each are drink).
For the moment, he doesn't. He just hit twice is brandy and go on."
Want some cheese to got with that whine?
As for the lack of understanding of game mechanism, well, apparently you know much less than me, but we'll never agree on that. Even if I do play unbuffed and buffed, and you don't.
LOL where are those tactics then? What about explaining why one prof can reliably beat another, despite clains to the contrary? BS BS BS. Give us a break, you've been caught in your own lies keep digging if you want and rerpeat this all you want:
I will repeat it again one last time :
combat is balanced WITHOUT buff.
combat is imbalanced WITH buff.
It'll not get any more true.
If you don't know one of those aspect, how can you argue?
Funny I'd ask you the same thing...
Oh and the tag on disclaimer, did I hear back peddling? I'll highlight wherwe you are persistently being obtuse.
Now, what does make the doc buff % based but still very powerfull solve :
-Importance of balanced stat
What does it not solve :
- Imbalance between combat profession WHEN BUFFED
Nope the CB will address imbalance buffs will not fix anything alone (especially not the fact specials injure you go read the thread on the proposed new system.
- Imbalance between doc buff and all the other kind of buff in the game
- Uselessness of healing in combat
- Uselessness of special, weapon, and armor ham cost.
Rubbish the unfairness maybe, but as the HAM cost will itself be consigned to the scrap heap... Keep up to date will you?
- Racial specific stat options.
- ...
Wow no arguing with that reason eh? lol.
What does balance between health action and mind solve :
- Importance of balanced stat.
Repetition and no, it'll just mean people still focus on the hardest pool to buff in a big way.
- Balance between combat profession WHEN BUFFED.
Nope again, glad to see you keep track of proposed chages. Go see the new HAM system. even now Ent buffs + Chef buffs will keep HAM comparable so nope BSing again. Just because a few profs can hit mind heavily again and again doesn't mean you're going to fix things with equal mind and health/action buffs.
- Balance between doc buff with other buff type in the game
LMAO balanced in what way? We get the Sh**ty end of the stick interms of preparation and personal presence with no benefit? OF course I forgot you mean dumping on, not balance.
- Balance between doc abilities and other buffing profession abilities.
Really now? We can match their income and patient healer productivityfor what we offer? Thought not.
- Make the CM usefull again in a group.
LMAO as someone who opposed the kicking CMs just go I can tell you you're talking rubbish iof you think altering buffs on pools CMs don't even target will make a difference.
- Make the choice of weapon and special something important.
Nope fixing specials will do this.
- Racial bonus used with the right profession/weapon/armor matter.
Nope that is a whole other issue.
- Make much easier to balance PvE as everybody is equal in combat as long as they know how to play their profession.
Nope you have to fix profs to do that, everyone can buff equallly now and as one of the current PvP kings (rifleman) is heavily mind dependent (so weaker buffs by your reconing) your argument is totally flawed.
- Make the palyer having to choose between having high protection but killing himself if spamming special, or being able to spam special but having limited protection (that's how playing unbuffed is right now).
Yes but right now unbuffed means dead. Unbuffed and armour means very dead, don't you pay attention?
- Utility of a group in combat.
Is a matter of Buffs and armour combined, % stats is only a partial answer.
- Increase of the different type of armor available (with some modification on armors)
Would be another part of the solution, not an effect of comparable % buffs.
- Increase the different type of food people will use
- Increase the number of tactical choice a player will have to make.
LOL no, until specials work properly this won't happen, I don't see SWG making use of dead ground (know what that is?), terain related target visbleprofiles or any other basic infantry tactical advantage. You can't even provide good tactics for goodness sake, so WTH would you know.
- Increase the use and variety of spice.
What does it not solve :
- Too powerfull mob to deal with even in a group (very limited number of mob)
You made your choice, I made mine.
Indeed you did you chose to wonder onto a doc forum not meant for discussion of core ssytem issues such as this to whine complain and generally antagonise. Well fine suit yourself just don't expect hero worship for it.
Gift.
PS don't make me post the relavent threads on HAM to you, because I will, consider it fair warning.
The buff's/armor are overpowered because now any player can buy armor and get buff's that
MorvenDee wrote:
This nerf is a good thing. The game is broken right now because buffs and armor are ridiculously overpowered in PvE. Rebalancing the individual mob types would take months - rebalancing buffs and armor can be done faster and better.
The only people who object to these decisions are the MMORPG newbies who haven't played games like EQ, DAoC, AC, etc. PvE in those gamesis much more fun than SWG because it's more of a challenge. Playing SWG PvE is like selecting the "easy mode". As a five-year veteran of MMORPGs and a one-year master doctor, this gets my 100% support.
Message Edited by Morganite on 08-05-2004 11:46 PM
You want RP aspect in this, ok, RL doctor = people that don't know what you have most of the time but know generic tools to have a chance to succeed, and are trainer to look as confident as possible in front of a patient.
Musician : Someone that took years to learn an art that can revive your soul.
Help you?
This is a game, the the combat system is a game mechanism.
In game mechanism doc are characters that build buff pack, buff player for money and heal tumbler for xp. Period.
Doc buffs require a patient to wait for you to administer the buff and so should provide a greater benefit for the inconvenience cf. chef buffs.
Chef buff last much less time than doc buff, overall boost stats much less than doc buff even if they were cut in half, and stomach don't empty when you die, a buff doc can be applied right away.
Entertainer buff last much less time to apply, require 2 different profession to buff primary and secondaries, and take much more time to apply than doc buff.
Spice have downer time, only 1 spice is allowed, and none of the spice don't mutliply 6 of your stat by a factor from 4 to 10.
Doc buffs cannot be stacked so should provide a greater benefit cf. Chef buffs.
Last time I checked, doc were able to apply 6 buff on someone.
Try to eat as much food as you can to have a total increase in your stat that is half of what a doctor can do.
Doc buffs require resources and time to produce so should be more powerful than Entertainer buffs.
Chef food and spice require resource too.
Entertainer can't use any of their skill in combat.
Entertainer can heal mind wound and battle fatigue.
To be able to buff primary and secondaries, they need much more skill point than a doc.
Their buff last less time than doc buff, are much lower AND take much more time to apply.
I've not seen you give a good reason why this shouldn't be so other than a vague notion that it will help chefs sell more buffs. I agree with lexy's assessment and it will do more for balance than your suggestion will. You just want to excessively penalise doctors, now if we can make self applied buffs then I might agree with you, but then what's left to distinguish a doc buff from anything else, zip and no matter what you think a game is more than a hack and slash dice roll what about a little content that makes you feel like you're actually a doc? Besides what you suggest will still result in professions over buffing their most heavily taxed stat, they'll just use a combination of doc, ent and food buffs in a fashion not disimilar to what we have now so back to square 1 namely fix HAM.
Because standing in coronet to apply buff make you feel like a doc?
How about healing wounds?
How about healing damage and states and poison and disease in a battle?
Don't talk rubbish, you just chose to ignore that aspect of the profession (despite this being an RPG I might add) and as I've said I've presented more than a purely intelectual argument for the matter, namely time/effort/cost/convenience.
1) Rp aspect : Combat system is a system, it's math, nothing else.
2) time/effort/cost/convenience : funny really, try to make a master musician as fast as you can make master doc.
Try again when looping macro goes byebye.
Try spending hours in a place, with about 20 people that have the same skill as you standing right next to you to make money.
time for doc : low, effort : low, cost : high, convenience : high.
for entertainer : time : high, effort : high, :cost : low, convenience : low.
Looks ok to me.
Right so let's get this straight, we are to hang around in person for long stretches of time selling our services and spend the rest of that time searching for large amounts of resourses and/or paying a small fortune for them but not have our buffs be any more effective than chefs (who don't have to do the former) or ents (who don't have to do the latter. Am I missing something here? Which bit of us having reduced strength but slightly more powerful buffs is having it all our own way?
I guess for you, the only thing that make a combat profession more powerfull than an other is it's damage output.
No
Did you PvP unbuffed vs unbuffed?
So why argue, you don't know what you're talking about.
And no again. you're still defeating your own argument but now you've decided to change your view again! Now riflemen will win all the time but it's balanced?
I'm not defeating my own argument.
Not that hard to understand really.
When a combat system is balanced, each profession have equal chance to win.
However, some profession are easier to use than others.
Pistoleer is easier to master (not the title, the actual player skill) than rifleman.
So, pistoleer has a better chance.
But if the rifleman know what he's doing and pistoleer don't, he'll win all the time.
That's what is balance.
Obviously we don't, I know exactly who I have to res most often for mind wastage, and I know if they're not buffed it's Riflemen and Carbineers. Like I say though why not pop over and ask them about it? I bet I know what they tell you.
You're defeating your own argument here.
If it's only because of mind, either mind buff aren't powerfull enough or health and action buff are too powerfull.
PvE experience tell me that it's the second, not the first.
LOL I'm not a rifleman, and you know what I'm saying is true, unbuffed you can take any prof and only be able to take oin a fraction of the mobs out there. BTW Do share these wonderful unbuffed solo tactics with me I'd love to hear them...
You said you were pistoleer, didn't knew it was melee.
As for the portion of mobs out there, it's true for ALL the combat profession.
As for the tactics, I don't wanna waste your fun, go on and try to find them all by yourself, that is part of the fun, being uber is not.
What's up run out of answers? Or do you admit the heavy HAM costs of these professions mean you don't even need to spam specials to earn an incap unbuffed?
as I said LOL.
There is no point in agruing here, as you play only buffed and I play almost only unbuffed.
A simple question, do you think the HAM cost of a TKA is high?
if no, I guess he can spam specials all the time when unbuffed right.
Why don't you make one and try. Or ask a friend to do it and watch him be killed by a shaprnaut.
Hurrah we reach agreement!
Either you missed what I wrote and we wasted alot of forum space for nothing or we don't.
I never said I was against % based, as long a doc buff are comparable or very close to ent buff.
Er no, you're not listening to me, I'm saying in it's current state buffs make a bad combat system playable. I'm not saying the buffs shouldn't be made weaker, but considering the time and effort doc buffs require I still think they should be a little stronger. And here is why:
and I say current combat system is fine and buff break it.
Resources - we need them for our buffs so they should be stronger. Now if chefs want to play that card them fine, but as they can stack one of our buffs should still be more powerful than one of there's.
I never said doc buff should be less powerfull than chef buff.
Do the math, 6 stats, 2.5K increase in each.
Total : 15K increase from doc buff.
Try to reach let's say 5K total increase with food.
Time, we've got to hang around to ply our wares and people have to come to us, chefs don't so we should have much longer duration buffs. Now if ent's want to play that card then I'm also fine with that give them duration.
Chef don't if they do have a shop, wich require skill point and maintenance cost.
Something doc don't have to care about.
LOL yeah and you're tactics for taking on storm troopers unbuffed are? Don't BS me, less specials actually means less tactical options either way you cut it and the scope for solo tactics is meagre to say the least. If you know different then by all means enlighten us with your tactical mastery, otherwise admit shooting and running away is about as good as it gets.
Never occured to you to think that in a Massive Multiplayer game at least some of the content was ment to be dealt by a group and not a single character?
To sum it up, you complain about the imbalance between profession.
And you deny it.
Your missing a big part of what I'm saying here, the subject of the thread.
profession a imbalanced to hell when buffed and perfectly balanced when unbuffed.
Doesn't that help you seeing where is the problem?
You accept to see that the buff is a part of the problem.
Wrong I accept buffs are part of the problem and so need to be altered along with other problems.
Never said it was the only problem.
I said, and still say that it is the main problem, and that fixing it will make the fixing of all the other problems much easier.
But you don't want them to be balanced.
Wrong again, I want them balanced and buffs balanced, don't warp what I have to say on the matter, I've been very clear.
As long as doc buff are much more powerfull than entertainer buff, it will be imbalanced.
Maybe you cannot admit it, but it's a mathematical fact.
All the other part of the combat system have been implemented based on the assumption that health action and mind are equal.
Playing unbuffed make that very clear.
And doc buff must be more powerfull because of your vision based on RL of what a doc and an entertainer is don't fit with the reality of this game.
Wrong yet again, I think the RL/RPG dynamic is just one aspect of it; you've totally chosen to ignore my other points.
one apsect of it, but only for the doc.
I didn't chose to ignore them, they just make me laugh.
You choose to totaly ignore the fact that doctor can do much more than buffing, chef and entertainer can do much less than a doc, but that, you don't wanna see.
So says the person who's come onto the Doc forum to whine and troll about one of our abilitites while demonstarting a supreme lack of understanding when it comes to the game dynamics. I've attempted to reason with you not complain, just because you can't decide whether the combat is balanced or not or who would win various unbuffed combats don't take it out on me.
Excuse me, but it's you that turned this into a troll.
And I never whined.
As for the lack of understanding of game mechanism, well, apparently you know much less than me, but we'll never agree on that. Even if I do play unbuffed and buffed, and you don't.
I will repeat it again one last time :
combat is balanced WITHOUT buff.
combat is imbalanced WITH buff.
If you don't know one of those aspect, how can you argue?
Now, what does make the doc buff % based but still very powerfull solve :
-Importance of balanced stat
What does it not solve :
- Imbalance between combat profession WHEN BUFFED
- Imbalance between doc buff and all the other kind of buff in the game
- Uselessness of healing in combat
- Uselessness of special, weapon, and armor ham cost.
- Racial specific stat options.
- ...
What does balance between health action and mind solve :
- Importance of balanced stat.
- Balance between combat profession WHEN BUFFED.
- Balance between doc buff with other buff type in the game
- Balance between doc abilities and other buffing profession abilities.
- Make the CM usefull again in a group.
- Make the choice of weapon and special something important.
- Racial bonus used with the right profession/weapon/armor matter.
- Make much easier to balance PvE as everybody is equal in combat as long as they know how to play their profession.
- Make the palyer having to choose between having high protection but killing himself if spamming special, or being able to spam special but having limited protection (that's how playing unbuffed is right now).
- Utility of a group in combat.
- Increase of the different type of armor available (with some modification on armors)
- Increase the different type of food people will use
- Increase the number of tactical choice a player will have to make.
- Increase the use and variety of spice.
What does it not solve :
- Too powerfull mob to deal with even in a group (very limited number of mob)
You made your choice, I made mine.
I know your uber IRL too, it's obvious for a while now.
My point was just that what you think of a doc should be based on IRL is irrelevant because everybody has a different view of what IRL doc and other profession for that matter are.
SWG doc aren't IRL doc, they're in a galaxy far far away and can make you almost immortal.
Dunno any IRL doc that is like that
Maybe you are...
That ma be what a ho,lo whole like you does but I've gopt news for you the people who post here have a genuine interest in the prof.
I'm not a hologrinder, neither a name caller btw.
The fact that you care or not doesn't change the fact that each profession has a role and abilities based on that role.
If you cannot accept that, that's your problem.
Oh scramble for excuses. did I or did I not point out chef buffs stack? and Did I or did I not point out that ents could have longer duration without my objection? Stiull amusing to see you back peddle. BTW yes Smuggler buffs have a downer but then they are self applied so I'm ok with that too, they traid off power and convenience for downer, Fine I'm happy np. Little tip for you know your oponents opioon before BSing.
You point out chef buff stack.
You didn't point out doc buff stack too.
You didn't point out that the sum of all the chef buff you can have is nothing compared to the sum of doc buff you can have.
I did.
Ent should not have longer duration.
It is normal that duration is smaller because they do not need resource and other stuff.
I'm ok with the downer effect too.
What is wrong is that there is no draw back to doc buff, no inconvenient, no problem, only pure godmode for 3 hours.
If at least doc buff weren't godmode, that would make things balanced.
As for power, as far as I know the most powerfull spice in the game does about 10 to 20% of a doc buff, for a 10 minute use with a downer. Imbalance? yes.
I know your opinion, it's pretty clear, all the other buff method are ok as long as doc buff still 5 to 10 time more powerfull.
Pretty obvious.
Last time I checked Chefs could buff every stat, Docs can't. Chefs need some limit, again you prove your poor reasoning on the matter. I guess I;ll write it off to english not being your native tounge.
That's you that is not reasoning at all.
Chef do have limits, and alot(stomach filling being the most obvious, short time duration, increase in stat limited).
Entertainer do have limits, alot too (cantina, time to make the buff, no use in battle,...).
The only limit of doc is mind.
Which is why I sugest they should be strong buffs; however, they can stack Docs can't so for a single buff docs should be stronger.
We already have god mode, and you're asking to have more powerfull buff?
You really love power.
And Doc buff do stack (6 stat, for 2.5K, 15K total, do the math). Much more than chef buff (do the math, how much increase can food buff give? 2K, 3K max).
And this has what to do with buffs? Niether can chefs should we nerf them too? What dire nonsense, I can cure poison/disease and res but do I get paid? no. Does it help people who die in combat? No. can I res myself? NO. So your point is?
Balance is balancing everything.
You can cure poison/disease/state, heal damage and wound, rez.
If this doesn't help anyone in combat, sorry but you sux.
Entertainer can buff themselves?
The paid part is the most fun.
Comparing entertainer income with poor doc income, that will make laugh alot of people.
Good for them I can heal wounds too (again at resource cost that no one pays me for.
The money argument again, still laughing.
Heh so make buffing require more doc points, most people on this board will suport you including myself.
And how does that help combat balance?
The issue here is combat balance, and buff screw it up.
But you're like the CM crying that poison is the only thing they can do and that they are now useless.
LOL except you can buff groups quicker this way, while simultaneously healing people ( I can'tdo either.) Besides I've already said I don't object to a duration increace so your objection is
My objection is that each profession has pro and cons, and that you deny it.
I give you load of pro and cons on all the buff method and buff profession.
All have a balance between pro and cons.
Except one.
Doc.
LMAO, know your enemy child, I don't do that kind of thing so nope. In fact I'd appreciate anything that gont me back into a serious combat healing role.
You're not my enemy.
I'm not a child.
If you want more stuff to make you come back in combat role, why not propose some?
Here we have a proposal that will help that, but you're against it, for powergreed reason and proposing nothing else but making others more powerfull and turn this game in Streetfighter online.
I'd like to see medics, but not docs getting paid for this, but as it stands none of us get paid for this becuase people like yourself are too tight to pay uip/ (and here's where I get really annoyed medic is a major charity profession because miserable swine are too tight fisted to tip; docs at least have buffs.)
LOL, this must be the funiest argument ever.
I don't tip doc for wound healing because they do not heal wounds.
Either they rush on you and sometimes of to pay you so they can heal your wound and have xp(only in coronet, where I don't go), or they just don't.
I take care of my wound by myself. With TKA meditate, scout/ranger camp or medic skills. Because otherwise, guess what, I never heal.
Beside, healing wound and disease and states and damage is not about making money as a service, it's helping a group.
when you're in a group, you have your share of money from mission and loot (well depend of the group) and you don't have to buy weapon and armor or hit mob for that.
Sure tip me and my prof for it tight wad.
If I'm in a group with a healer and he ask tip to heal me during a fight, if I'm the leader, I kick him from the group, and gladly drain aggro to him.
Did you tip that TKA of Fencer or Swordsman that just took aggro from you?
LOL yeah what rubbish, and if that's the best counter you have I've got news for you; don't play an RPG. Stick to whatever FPS you've been playing previously/
Just another proof that you don't know what you're talking about.
All RPG are based on mathematical system. Ask an RPG creator, he'll tell you.
FPS aren't.
HAHA Give me a vbreak try the crafting grind to get master, don't blame docs because your prof is difficult to master. Pewrsonally I look on the achievement with pride rather than bat others over the head because you don't think it was easy enough for your cas gaming tastes.
Assuming that you think that I am your enemy, know your enemy.
I'm all for achievement, I'm all against everything easy. but if you don't get that from my desire to reduce buff, I guess you'll never see it.
Try spending months looking for people to heal and gain XP. I could have grinded the prof. but unlike you I wanted a sense of achievement togo with my progression.
Main character : Master 3 profession in 6 months. Proud of all of the 3.
Yeah I'm sure all that afk time in Cnet and others is sooooo hard to do. Give us a break little man I hear a whine because someone wanted instant gratification here; well tough you're not getting it.
Keep up to date please, AFK leveling is going byebye.
I don't whine, I want that people that have instant gratification that ruin big part of the game realize the problem they are and stop being power greedy.
Not listening again are we? No combat profs are made powerful by the lay off between HAM cost and damage. not all have this balance right, but you ignore it as long as you're alright jack eh?
Exactly what I said.
If for balance in combat is only damage output vs HAM cost, indeed, you have no idea what balance is.
EEEE wrong answer, had you tried head to head you'd know exactly why/who and how PvP is ruled by different profs (buffed unbuffed) for different reasons. As it is I get hot air but no concrete rebuttle from you as to whyysome porfs are better than others on different contitions. Even if I did get a rebuttle YOU asserted that all profs were balanced, so there should be no clear winner! Caught up in your own BS I think. Whoops eh?
Yes I have.
That's how I know profession are blanced when unbuffed.
But if you limit combat to spamming powerfull damage special vs HAM cost, indeed some are much better than others.
LOL can I quote you on that? "some profession are easier to use than others" Keep digging.
Sure you can.
"When a combat system is balanced, each profession have equal chance to win."
"some profession are easier to use than others"
"So, pistoleer has a better chance.
But if the rifleman know what he's doing and pistoleer don't, he'll win all the time.
That's what is balance."
Might I suggest you try logic?
With all the sentence together in that order, you do understand better?
Pistol, easier than rifle.
To me that's pure logic.
LOL and we;re back here are we?
I know exactly who I have to res most often for mind wastage, and I know if they're not buffed it's Riflemen and Carbineers.
Whoops, taking my example of how "not buffed= balanced" is drivel and using it to BS the exact opposite?
Might I suggest reading a sentence before you erroniously quote it? LOL don't be a fool and admit you were wrong, no buffs does not equal balance profs.
Indeed, wrongly quoted.
That doesn't defeat the fact that a carbineer or rifleman that know what he's doing and how to play his profession won't die more than a TKA or a pistoleer that know what he's doing.
So why did say: "If you want to be a rifleman"?
used as an exemple
Surely you weren't trying to distort my stand point?
No, rifle and pistoleer are ranged, that's what does matter here
And prortions of mobs pros are able to tackle is not the same period. For example unbuffed pistollers HAM costs make it much more of a force to be recond with.
Special Spammage = time wasting
Whoops on the tactics eh? Caught in your own BS again. Well done.
Tactics, ok, how about using a tank (Melee player, pet, droid), taking cover, staying at limit range, drag aggro from other mob, use states,...
I cut the crap a little in case the is a limit in post size
LOL which he shouldn't be able to solo? But can with buffs, opps forget that can solo anything without claim again? LMAO don't tar me with your idiotic claims of unbuffed uberness; they are your stupid claim not mine.
He can easily solo it unbuffed. even with low armor.
fighting is not special spamming.
And unbuffed TKA is like all the other profession when unbuffed : he'll kill himself by spamming specials.
That doesn't mean he's imbalanced and useless without buff.
That just mean that he doesn't know what he's doing.
Well done Einstein, you've finally understood the problem! Buffs are not comparable, when you make it so I can buff with out like an ent, or hand buffsout for later use, then buffs will be comparable. Until then get a grip and understand your paper thin ideas are junk.
Well, at least we can be sure that you don't.
The only thing your answer explain is that you prefer changing a whole system than solving the problem.
That is possible.
That is very ineffective.
But as long as you're powerfull, that's fine.
Because for you, the only thing that matter is raw power.
Sorry, but I don't agree with that.
LMAO suit yourself, you just head out to the NS caves and give it a go then. Or better still find somepeople to try unbuffed PvP with. Don't forget to clone first.
Try solo with buff.
Try solo without.
Result?
Whoops arguing for a change that would make buffs comparable using the curent syttem as an example" Did I say keep the current system? NO. Did I say whatever the new system a non-stackable Doc buff should be better than a single chef buff? Yes. Face it you've BS'ed yourself into a hole, give it up; you cannot justify busting the major income scource of a Doc this way. 1 Doc buff should not = one chef food consumption. Like I said you've a poor arguement for dumping on docs with no benefits.
Like I said before.
1 doc buff vs 1 food buff argument is pointless.
To have balance, you have to take everything in account.
Beside, Even if 1 doc buff = 1 chef buff for 1 stat, the total of the buff from doc still much higher than for food, last much longer, and can be applied right after death.
Looks very powerfull to me.
Look I don't care what you are jealous of, the fact remains Doc needs some renumeration for the methods and resources we need for buffs. In anycase I never said much more powerful anything, I said slightly more powerful you've just chosen to B*tch about this idea.
I'm not jealous of anybody or anything.
How making the doc buff less powerfull drop your presiouse income? It's still a buff, it's still powerfull enough to have much higher chance to win a fight.
Sorry, but 200% is not slightly more powerfull for me.
105% is.
Want some cheese to got with that whine?
Fact, not whine.
And yes, please some cheese.
Hot preferably.
It'll not get any more true.
Maybe, but it might help you stop saying that I'm saying bull**edit** and say one thing and the oposite all the time.
Because that is not true.
Oh and the tag on disclaimer, did I hear back peddling? I'll highlight wherwe you are persistently being obtuse.
And you aren't?
Repetition and no, it'll just mean people still focus on the hardest pool to buff in a big way.
Hum, if you can buff all the pool the same way, wich one is the hardest to buff?
Nope again, glad to see you keep track of proposed chages. Go see the new HAM system. even now Ent buffs + Chef buffs will keep HAM comparable so nope BSing again. Just because a few profs can hit mind heavily again and again doesn't mean you're going to fix things with equal mind and health/action buffs.
Never noticed that some profession can heavily hit health or action?
Really now? We can match their income and patient healer productivity for what we offer? Thought not.
The money argument again. Still laughing.
LMAO as someone who opposed the kicking CMs just go I can tell you you're talking rubbish iof you think altering buffs on pools CMs don't even target will make a difference.
I was talking about CM heals, but as only power matters to you I guess you don't even know they exist.
Yes but right now unbuffed means dead. Unbuffed and armour means very dead, don't you pay attention?
Just LOL.
Would be another part of the solution, not an effect of comparable % buffs.
Read all the lines.
Lower buff is what I'm talking about here.
Lower buff solve that.
PS don't make me post the relavent threads on HAM to you, because I will, consider it fair warning.
Thanks I know this thread, and already stated in it what I think of it.