Doctor Archive
Thread: Views on Docs with Area heals vs CM... etc etc flame me
TenshiHanaKinu
Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:40 am
#66
yebach wrote:
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
Not in the current state of the game. Any stun-composite-wearing hobo with a PSG and novice medic immediately nullifies any effort of a Master Pistoleer.
Then don't play a Pistoleer. Play a Rifleman or a Carbineer. Maybe a melee class. Mix it up a bit if you are unsatisfied. Overall it sounds to me like you are jealous CMs are getting so much attention over your current skillset.
That's a left-field assumption. Incorrect also.
Is that your reasoning for everything?
Jedi are killing us all . Your response, "Be a Jedi" or perhaps "Drop your entire template and pick up some Melee stacker template with Doc Dabbler."
CMs are able to wipe out everyone in PvP. Your response, "Everyone pick up Doc."
You fail to address the issues of imbalance. Perhaps that is why you think that this is unfair to CMs because when the issue is addressed -- that is, making it so that a support profession isn't the end-all of PvP -- become balanced that you are upset.
"A good defense is a good offense." Being able to attack your enemy is a way of defending yourself. If I chased down someone who had absolutely no way of hitting me back, but the ability to heal, I'm not going to have to be cautious at all. They can't hurt me, and they can't heal indefinitely. Just have to wear them out.
However, if someone is tossing poisons & diseases, that is a method of detering your opponent. Whomever has more poisons / antidotes wins out, if you have your Synthsteak, PSG, Stun helmet as you so say.
I don't quite see the point you are trying to make.
... *sigh* You see no logic behind being able to defend yourselves. When people speak of being able to defend themselves it is not just about "I can stop someone from hurting me by blocking everything" (which isn't the issue since blocking isn't an option), it's "I can stop someone from hurting me by making them stop."
Recovering from pain and stopping someone from giving you pain are two different things. If someone shoots you in the leg and you have the ability to mend your wound, do you want to get shot again? Or do you want that person to not shoot you again. Seems to me like you would want to stop the person from shooting you again, because even though you can mend it, you can't mend forever, and it hurts to get shot.
I have places to be, and running to a Harvester with 10 people protecting me is a bit much at 3am EST. I am always overt because I'm a roleplayer. However, the only way to make sure that I'm protected from a rifleman even with X player defense is to be sure that my bodyguard squad involves a Rifleman or a melee stacker. Not everyone is a carbon-copy and kiting is not difficult.
Well if you choose to be overt 24x7 then you are just asking for trouble. Sorry but if you choose to be meat for the gank squad then you deserve to be ganked.
Seems we're two different kind of players, then. Sure, there is the option to be overt and covert when it suits you. You apparently do not know what it's like to play the way I do (overt even when you don't have an army to back you up) so you cannot judge me. I have played in your shoes (overt when it suits me) before I reached my current rank, it's very easy. No stress. Hey, I don't wanna get killed now, I'll be covert. Hey, there's 20 Imps nearby, I'll be covert.
So, you don't know what you're talking about when you're making these suggestions to me, since you're not overt without a gank squad.
At least you could never kill me. /Flourish 2 is not an attack option.
Delays. Does you no good if you have no where to run.
I have Synthsteak, Muon Gold, Verticupi, Blue Milk, Brandy, Canape, all foods to help against the menace, along with a Stun Composite Helmet & a Stun PSG.
All that and you still can't fend off some headshots? I don't know what to say.
*shrug* Unbalanced system. Overpowered armor and medic makes it so certain professions do not gain the ability to combat. "Well change it," sorry, I don't know if you can understand this, but I play for "fun", I don't play to win. I enjoy pistols. And when the Revamp comes Pistols will be as viable as anything else.
If you're always-overt I'm impressed.
One can choose to be or not be overt.
Indeed. I am overt through thick AND thin.
That's using items unrelated to the Doctorprofession. You'reavoiding the point.
Sorry I didn't realize our profession should be able to counter headshots.
Actually, in Beta we could. It was nerfed because of the screwed up HAM system, but it sounds like it will be back.
Good luck lobbying that ability.
Actually, in Beta we could. It was nerfed because of the screwed up HAM system, but it sounds like it will be back.
We get even less.
The point is that the profession that has the least chance of using their skills directly under fire has defenses when the support professions that are under fire get no defenses. That is messed up.
Weird, we have a 6m healing range. Something tells me we're front-line healers. At least that's the impression I get. Obviously with a limited healing range we have to be in the thick of combat. Combat Medics heal from afar. You know, with ranged stims and all this fabledly useless stuff.
This is a game, not real life. You want to apply this logic to any other MMORPG? I wonder if I would see Priests running around miles from their churches NOT spreading the gospel but instead fighting monsters. Or clerics, they would be sitting in the study , not running around outside.
Actually I have debated it. I have Marksman 0/4/0/1 and I've thought about giving up Novice Entertainer for those last 3 tiers of the Ranged Support Tree. Will that give me Terrain Negotiation or Ranged Medical abilities? I don't think so.
No but if you chose to invest 20 points into CM you would get that grandiose ability you seem to think is so worthwhile along with the ability to use AE and ranged stims. Or you could choose to invest 24 points into Exploration 3 from Scout and gain other abilities.
Counter point, CMs can invest 6 points and gain the ability to heal states that they seem to be so jealous of. 6 vs. 20/24. Hmm. I wonder who gets the better deal.
Not enough points and my ability to fight would be diminished. Everyone can master 3 professions. You can Master 3 professions as well and have the added bonus. I gain Terrain Negotiation using Food & a Flight Suit (Overt Rebel Clothing) and it's very useful in unpleasant terrain. The fact that you don't realize the worth of Terrain Negotiation, especially 50, means you're not very seasoned combatants in a wide variety of situations.
Oh I never said I don't realize it's worth. I just don't feel that it is worth the points you say it is when I could just as easily pick up Scout 3000 for 24 points.
6 vs. 20.
Check again. This has just become invalid.
Yes I realize that and I stand corrected. It is thanks to the CMs who fought tooth and nail however, not due to us Doctors that such a progression towards balance was made. Had they just shut up and stayed quiet like many of my fellow Doctors wanted them to, they would not have realized those issues.
Yes, because all doctors want to be overpowered. Just as ALL CMs hate the changes and want to rule PvP.
Generalizing.
Okay, so what does a Doctor do? They can't fight AT ALL. We're talking about basic professions apparently. So many people picked up Doctor because of CMs -- the "geta doctor" bit, now they can drop it. PvP is not supposed to be a one-person show. One person is not supposed to be able to "Cut swaths through crowds of players."
It is apparent to me you are not looking towards being a support class.
You have the deductive skills of a turnip. I don't want to be a support class yet I run around with Entertainer AND Doctor? Woah damn, I'm going to rule PvP with that.
You just want the Doctor profession to be easily dabbled and used by Bots.
The opposite. Perhaps you should run some searches on my posts before you make such idiotic assumptions. I have been vying for Master Doctor "prestige" for a long time.
When I am PVPing with my friends, I drag, I heal, I buff, I cure, etc.
As do I. It's my primary combat function.
I heal mind wounds I buff mind substats quickly and I get them back in the fight.
I heal mind wounds & battle fatigue as well. I only recently switched my template from MD / Trickshot / Dancer 0/0/1/0 because I was getting killed in PvP too quickly so I dropped enough of Dancer to gain extra defenses.
I look for no personal glory and my PVP rating is happily at 983. I am a Doctor not a fighter. You seem to be looking for ways to substantiate your so called "combat skill". Try playing a full support character sometime.
You're either an illiterate bafoon or a complete retard, either way, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Boring to you but for me and other true support players we find it very fulfilling.
You're either an illiterate bafoon or a complete retard, either way, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
The point is we're support professions. We sacrafice ourselves to assist our group. Your insistence that a player should not have to rely on another player is against the 'social' nature of the game. CMs are the only players that can heal mind. There is no dedicated "Mind Stim" beyond the Damage Pack that any medic can use, and therefore the skill comes out of your mind, just like /QuickHeal does for Doctors, which is a high-level Stim-less Damage Heal. It costs a ton of Focus & Willpower wounds to use.
Your comments from above talk about how you want Doctor to be more than just a support profession yet you state here again we are a Support profession.
You seem to be vacilating so please decide which it is going to be. This is no way to run a debate.
Of course it isn't. You shouldn't draw conclusions with lacking or insubstantial evidence -- which you have blatantly done above.
In the above block you state I try to make the doctor profession into a combat profession:
Okay, so what does a Doctor do? They can't fight AT ALL. We're talking about basic professions apparently. So many people picked up Doctor because of CMs -- the "geta doctor" bit, now they can drop it.
This removes dabblers from Doctor , one thing I am very happy about. This disproves your assumption that I advocate the dabbling of the Doctor Profession. I am very-much against it. I hate 4/0/4/0 stackers.
You made a comment about CMs vs. Doctors. Again, a Doctor cannot fight "AT ALL." A CM can, that is a completely basic point. Why is it so hard to grasp?
PvP is not supposed to be a one-person show.
We're supposed to rely on the abilities of others. Many of my Rebel friends rely on my Doctor abilities. Those're what I am proud of. With pistoleer the people I can fight are select and limited. My PvP rating is much higher than yours, so what. While I'm a Support toon (my choice of Pistoleer was based around SUPPORT, but you wouldn't know that because you don't have any clue why I made my choices. I could dig up a post where I stated that. Oftentimes when I make an assumption about someone I check past posts of pertinence. Obviously you didn't. ) Insert foot in mouth, please.
One person is not supposed to be able to "Cut swaths through crowds of players."
Thunderheart quote.
So what then, when Doctors run out of Stims that's it? Should the cost of quickheal be removed, too, because "we shouldn't need another class to participate in PvP." ? I'll certainly /quickHeal someone if it ensures the longevity of our team, just as I would /mindHeal someone if I was a CM.
CMs have been saying to "get a Doc" for quite a while now amidst players complaints they shouldn't need another profession to go PVP. My statement was an observation of how hypocritical the situation has become when we expect CMs to have other professions in their group just so they can use one of their core abilities.
They can use their "Core ability" without having these other professions. Nothing stops them, except maybe the fear of dying. /shrug
Invalidated. See 9.4
Yes I am aware now of the changes so I stand corrected.
I have no "animosity" for CMs. However I am responding against the animosity that is being displayed by them against us. I have a tremendous sense of "fairness" and I don't see anything unfair about AoE's, the ability to miss, or a minimum cap. I think the "buffs" went a bit too far, but they provide non-doctor players a chance to fight. Now if something could be done about the irreversibility and ease of access of Mind Damage....
The fact that our cures are indiscriminate to the stat is a bit out of balance. Like Gnuut has pointed out in other threads if we want to be a true counter then we must be limited to stat for stat cures.
I have no problem with that.
I don't hate CMs. Never have. I have grown frustrated over CM Exploiting (throwing from water, throwing through buildings, throwing from beyond firing range, throwing at 1s), but never have I hated a CM or CMs in general.
Frustration can border on hate and believe me I have read alot of your posts concerning CMs and alot seem to be riddled with irrational hate.
Please quote me. I would like to see some of my irrational hate for CMs beyond the use of exploiting --- "cheating."
My whole argument is based around the fact that they're not useless. YOU GUYS are the ones saying they are. Not me.
They are practically useless. They have 5 core abilities. Poison and Disease. Still easily negated by non-Master Doctors vs Master CMs. Area and ranged heals. Negated partially by buffs and mostly by StimBs in the hands of dabbler medics. Last ability is mind heal which is useful but is debilitating unless the CM is a TKA, entertainer or has an SL, entertainer or Jedi with them. As many points as a Master BH and yet only these few abilities? Medical XP or not they are still paying the pioints they need some worthwhile skills.
If you want to consider a CM useless that's fine with me. The CMs I PvP with sure don't consider themselves useless. But hey, your call. I still feel better having a CM in my group.
So you're telling me that that CM can't throw again? That's kind of sad, just throw once and let the doctor get rid of it. Nice. 3 Second throw cap, you should be able to stack another poison on and encourage a tick before the poison is removed. That is a resource issue, just as the power of poisons is a resource issue.Not all servers will have these abilities.
The majority of the cries for nerfing the CM profession were based on resource issues.
Throw spamming? Line of Sight exploitation? Use in areas where the player cannot be attacked? The ability to land a poison 100% of the time?
That is a resource issue, just as the power of poisons is a resource issue.Not all servers will have these abilities.
Like I said the majority of the crap CMs recieved was due to resource issues.
Throw spamming? Line of Sight exploitation? Use in areas where the player cannot be attacked? The ability to land a poison 100% of the time?
I will toss a bone and contend that this is usually true. My poison kits have always been able to one-shot any CM's tick, even spider poisons. However, consider this: perhaps PvP wasn't meant to be settled by Poisons and Cures? We are support professions, after all. We're not supposed to decide the direct outcome of a battle -- the grunts are. A poison shouldn't be the end-all of PvP.
No I agree but then again what is the outcvome supposed to be determined by? Nerfing every profession to uselessness is not the answer. Fix it but make the profession worth playing.
"Worth playing." So suddenly you decide what is and isn't "worth playing" now. Is it all about "teh win" with you? A profession should be played because it fits a person's style and because they enjoy what they do, not because of it being useful in a broken system (such as your "switch to Rifleman or Carbineer" suggestion above).
Morath360
Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:08 am
#67
--foggy-- wrote:
My take on the issue as a long term doc/cm:
Field Surgeons = a doctor who is on the field, BUT NOT THE FRONT LINE. They sit in the camp a bit off of it healing people who were hurt on the battlefield. The Combat Medic is the medic running through dodging gun fire trying to help the guy who just got shot. Though limiting the doctors to the camps would be more realistic, it would be unfair to doctors. I think doctors should have strong single target heals, but give the area/ranged heals to CM's. Doctors should be in charge of buffing and putting the inoculationson the troops before battles and healing their wounds afterwords.
Fine then take away poisons and diseases and I will buy this argument. According to your definition then a combat medic would be just what it says and not a chemical warefare specialist. A doc on the battlefield is more realistic than a combat medic heaving Biological weapons. If they want to do it right maybe they should keep CM as they are except ditch poisons and disease but make it like Scout, brawler, or marksmen. Make the requirements for SP less.
An idea someone also had onthe CM forum was make a success rate for stims while in combat. Novice medic = 75% chance of failing, master medic = 50% chance fo failing, master doc = 25% chance of failing, master CM = no chance of failing. This again, would keep doctors good healers, still also making them very effective out of combat, but keeping CM's true to their name, Combat Medics.
The whole reason we are having these problems are buffs and armor. If everyone wasn't running around a robocop with 3000 HAM and 80% resists to everything, half the things in the game wouldn't be a problem anymore. CM's would of never been the only thing that could quickly decide a battle, riflemen wouldn't of been the only viable damageprofession because of stun damage and armor peircing, combat medics would actually use their skills for healing health/action, grouping would be needed, people couldn't run around soloing everything, the game would be a better place. But no, we need space ships...
Im so tired of seeing this argument. You appently have not PVP'd prior to armor. If so do you remember the days of dieing in 10 seconds? It is so much better now. Battles should be long and raging. No one wants to die that quickly and no one should be able to avoid all forms of protection except one counter profession. The problem again is not armor and not ranged vs point blank. The problem is the poisons and diseases and the fact that they go through anything. Like it or not, that is why docs are getting these things. It is unbalanced and now it will be better.
Gnutt said earlier that CM's dont ask to be damage dealers. That is utterly bunk. They have fought so hard to keep their precious damage high on poisons and disease. If you guys want to be true healers on the battlefield and want docs to be less then be willing to give them up. Until then, my vote is for docs to counter every piece of you with extreme prejudice... 
yebach
Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:11 pm
#68
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
Not in the current state of the game. Any stun-composite-wearing hobo with a PSG and novice medic immediately nullifies any effort of a Master Pistoleer.
Then don't play a Pistoleer. Play a Rifleman or a Carbineer. Maybe a melee class. Mix it up a bit if you are unsatisfied. Overall it sounds to me like you are jealous CMs are getting so much attention over your current skillset.
"A good defense is a good offense." Being able to attack your enemy is a way of defending yourself. If I chased down someone who had absolutely no way of hitting me back, but the ability to heal, I'm not going to have to be cautious at all. They can't hurt me, and they can't heal indefinitely. Just have to wear them out.
However, if someone is tossing poisons & diseases, that is a method of detering your opponent. Whomever has more poisons / antidotes wins out, if you have your Synthsteak, PSG, Stun helmet as you so say.
I don't quite see the point you are trying to make.
I have places to be, and running to a Harvester with 10 people protecting me is a bit much at 3am EST. I am always overt because I'm a roleplayer. However, the only way to make sure that I'm protected from a rifleman even with X player defense is to be sure that my bodyguard squad involves a Rifleman or a melee stacker. Not everyone is a carbon-copy and kiting is not difficult.
Well if you choose to be overt 24x7 then you are just asking for trouble. Sorry but if you choose to be meat for the gank squad then you deserve to be ganked.
Delays. Does you no good if you have no where to run.
I have Synthsteak, Muon Gold, Verticupi, Blue Milk, Brandy, Canape, all foods to help against the menace, along with a Stun Composite Helmet & a Stun PSG.
All that and you still can't fend off some headshots? I don't know what to say.
If you're always-overt I'm impressed.
One can choose to be or not be overt.
That's using items unrelated to the Doctorprofession. You'reavoiding the point.
Sorry I didn't realize our profession should be able to counter headshots. Good luck lobbying that ability.
We get even less.
The point is that the profession that has the least chance of using their skills directly under fire has defenses when the support professions that are under fire get no defenses. That is messed up.
Actually I have debated it. I have Marksman 0/4/0/1 and I've thought about giving up Novice Entertainer for those last 3 tiers of the Ranged Support Tree. Will that give me Terrain Negotiation or Ranged Medical abilities? I don't think so.
No but if you chose to invest 20 points into CM you would get that grandiose ability you seem to think is so worthwhile along with the ability to use AE and ranged stims. Or you could choose to invest 24 points into Exploration 3 from Scout and gain other abilities.
Not enough points and my ability to fight would be diminished. Everyone can master 3 professions. You can Master 3 professions as well and have the added bonus. I gain Terrain Negotiation using Food & a Flight Suit (Overt Rebel Clothing) and it's very useful in unpleasant terrain. The fact that you don't realize the worth of Terrain Negotiation, especially 50, means you're not very seasoned combatants in a wide variety of situations.
Oh I never said I don't realize it's worth. I just don't feel that it is worth the points you say it is when I could just as easily pick up Scout 3000 for 24 points.
Check again. This has just become invalid.
Yes I realize that and I stand corrected. It is thanks to the CMs who fought tooth and nail however, not due to us Doctors that such a progression towards balance was made. Had they just shut up and stayed quiet like many of my fellow Doctors wanted them to, they would not have realized those issues.
Okay, so what does a Doctor do? They can't fight AT ALL. We're talking about basic professions apparently. So many people picked up Doctor because of CMs -- the "geta doctor" bit, now they can drop it. PvP is not supposed to be a one-person show. One person is not supposed to be able to "Cut swaths through crowds of players."
It is apparent to me you are not looking towards being a support class. You just want the Doctor profession to be easily dabbled and used by Bots. When I am PVPing with my friends, I drag, I heal, I buff, I cure, etc. I heal mind wounds I buff mind substats quickly and I get them back in the fight. I look for no personal glory and my PVP rating is happily at 983. I am a Doctor not a fighter. You seem to be looking for ways to substantiate your so called "combat skill". Try playing a full support character sometime. Boring to you but for me and other true support players we find it very fulfilling.
The point is we're support professions. We sacrafice ourselves to assist our group. Your insistence that a player should not have to rely on another player is against the 'social' nature of the game. CMs are the only players that can heal mind. There is no dedicated "Mind Stim" beyond the Damage Pack that any medic can use, and therefore the skill comes out of your mind, just like /QuickHeal does for Doctors, which is a high-level Stim-less Damage Heal. It costs a ton of Focus & Willpower wounds to use.
Your comments from above talk about how you want Doctor to be more than just a support profession yet you state here again we are a Support profession. You seem to be vacilating so please decide which it is going to be. This is no way to run a debate.
So what then, when Doctors run out of Stims that's it? Should the cost of quickheal be removed, too, because "we shouldn't need another class to participate in PvP." ? I'll certainly /quickHeal someone if it ensures the longevity of our team, just as I would /mindHeal someone if I was a CM.
CMs have been saying to "get a Doc" for quite a while now amidst players complaints they shouldn't need another profession to go PVP. My statement was an observation of how hypocritical the situation has become when we expect CMs to have other professions in their group just so they can use one of their core abilities.
Invalidated. See 9.4
Yes I am aware now of the changes so I stand corrected.
I have no "animosity" for CMs. However I am responding against the animosity that is being displayed by them against us. I have a tremendous sense of "fairness" and I don't see anything unfair about AoE's, the ability to miss, or a minimum cap. I think the "buffs" went a bit too far, but they provide non-doctor players a chance to fight. Now if something could be done about the irreversibility and ease of access of Mind Damage....
The fact that our cures are indiscriminate to the stat is a bit out of balance. Like Gnuut has pointed out in other threads if we want to be a true counter then we must be limited to stat for stat cures.
I don't hate CMs. Never have. I have grown frustrated over CM Exploiting (throwing from water, throwing through buildings, throwing from beyond firing range, throwing at 1s), but never have I hated a CM or CMs in general.
Frustration can border on hate and believe me I have read alot of your posts concerning CMs and alot seem to be riddled with irrational hate.
My whole argument is based around the fact that they're not useless. YOU GUYS are the ones saying they are. Not me.
They are practically useless. They have 5 core abilities. Poison and Disease. Still easily negated by non-Master Doctors vs Master CMs. Area and ranged heals. Negated partially by buffs and mostly by StimBs in the hands of dabbler medics. Last ability is mind heal which is useful but is debilitating unless the CM is a TKA, entertainer or has an SL, entertainer or Jedi with them. As many points as a Master BH and yet only these few abilities? Medical XP or not they are still paying the pioints they need some worthwhile skills.
So you're telling me that that CM can't throw again? That's kind of sad, just throw once and let the doctor get rid of it. Nice. 3 Second throw cap, you should be able to stack another poison on and encourage a tick before the poison is removed. That is a resource issue, just as the power of poisons is a resource issue.Not all servers will have these abilities.
The majority of the cries for nerfing the CM profession were based on resource issues.
That is a resource issue, just as the power of poisons is a resource issue.Not all servers will have these abilities.
Like I said the majority of the crap CMs recieved was due to resource issues.
I will toss a bone and contend that this is usually true. My poison kits have always been able to one-shot any CM's tick, even spider poisons. However, consider this: perhaps PvP wasn't meant to be settled by Poisons and Cures? We are support professions, after all. We're not supposed to decide the direct outcome of a battle -- the grunts are. A poison shouldn't be the end-all of PvP.
No I agree but then again what is the outcvome supposed to be determined by? Nerfing every profession to uselessness is not the answer. Fix it but make the profession worth playing.
yebach
Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:35 pm
#69
Tenshi I am going to skip over the majority of your response which seems to be nothing more than elitist garbage anyway and focus on two of your responses.
"If you choose to not have any offense in your template then that is your shortcoming. You have pistoleer which is some offense in my book."
Your response:
"Not in the current state of the game. Any stun-composite-wearing hobo with a PSG and novice medic immediately nullifies any effort of a Master Pistoleer."
You seem to dislike anyone who is better than you in combat or who you cannot beat in combat. I make this assumption from your statement above because you are focusing on Pistoleer ability rather than Doctor ability as this is what this discussion is really about. It seems you are mightily pissed that "Any stun-composite-wearing hobo with a PSG and novice medic" can negate your ability to do damage.
"No I agree but then again what is the outcvome supposed to be determined by? Nerfing every profession to uselessness is not the answer. Fix it but make the profession worth playing."
Your response:
"Worth playing." So suddenly you decide what is and isn't "worth playing" now. Is it all about "teh win" with you? A profession should be played because it fits a person's style and because they enjoy what they do, not because of it being useful in a broken system (such as your "switch to Rifleman or Carbineer" suggestion above).
It seems to me that you want all players to be just like you in the mindset we must all roleplay in this game. I know you are big into RP and all that but some players just don't go for that. You need to learn to respect the other player even if they have a different playstyle. Some players enjoy playing full combat professions others like myself play a full support role. More often than not I find my template is used by bots. Oh well to each his own. That is my playstyle.
I think you are trying to make a point that if you as a pistoleer must suffer with limited abilities then so should CMs. That kind of thinking is flawed. Every profession should be worth playing in this game. I don't make the decisions on what is worth it and what isn't but I listen. I listen to points made by my fellow Doctors and I listen to points made by CMs. Most CMs understand that a nerf was necessarry for balance but I wholeheartedly agree that the way this nerf was being carried out, it was going to make or break the CM profession. Thankfully there are several CMs out there who are articulate and mature enough to respond and defend their profession despite the elitist attitudes of other players.
Overall I have to say I am glad that you are not part of the decision-making process. Your views are so obtuse and your jealousy so obvious that I don't think it is possible to have an objective thought on the matter. That and you smell like poo. 
jk
Gnuut
Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:41 pm
#70
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
Doctor Max Healing Range: 6m
CM Max Healing Range: ~40m + Area of Effect
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Who belongs where?
CMs belong on the front lines and Doctors belong in the rear with the gear. I don't see how it can be made any more clearer than that.
Max healing range does not matter when Doctor buffs and Super StimBs are used. Our great and powerful mind heal ability is limited to a range of 6m. You were saying?
TenshiHanaKinu
Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:14 pm
#71
Gnuut wrote:
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
Doctor Max Healing Range: 6m
CM Max Healing Range: ~40m + Area of Effect
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Who belongs where?
CMs belong on the front lines and Doctors belong in the rear with the gear. I don't see how it can be made any more clearer than that.
Max healing range does not matter when Doctor buffs and Super StimBs are used.
So, you're saying the Doctor profession is useless on the field? I would like to see what it is you are fighting that you would never need a Doctor on the front lines since Buffs won't save you from high-end content. Buffs + armor will, since those 90% resists may help you curb a lot of damage.
However, my take on this is that you've never been hit with a Dizzy and knocked down. You've never been intimidated or set on fire, or hell, any other state. You've never been poisoned or diseased during combat. That's my take on things. You've never died. You need to get out more.
Go fight something challenging. Especially with NPCs using specials again.
Our great and powerful mind heal ability is limited to a range of 6m. You were saying?
Okay, so you have an ability that you have to be in the thick of combat for.
If that's true, and all Doctor abilities have a range of 6m, that only strengthens the reasoning that Doctors belong in the thick of combat.
A CM can heal group damage from far away, a Doctor cannot. A doctor who sits 31m away from Combat is useless, that is not true for a CM.
You two can continue to one-star me simply because I disagree with what you say. Try presenting information beyond reasonable doubt.
Gnuut
Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:36 am
#72
Morath I have stated planty of times, the majority of CMs only wish our profession to be worth the points we spend.
AE heals? Doesn't cut it.
Ranged heals? Doesn't cut it.
Mind heal? Doesn't cut it.
Poisons and Diseases with the new Doctor changes? Doesn't cut it.
I'd be happy to give up all offensive ability if CMs were given more healing power in combat. You say this would nerf Doctors? So be it. You ffkers don't belong on the battlefield anyway. You all belong in the rear with the gear.
DoogieHozer
Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:47 am
#73
I would have personally preferred that the Devs didn't jam the Doctors right up against the forward edge of the battle (required for point-blank cures to work) where they just get their heads blown off due to lack of defensive modifiers. At least a CM can -throw- their poisons/diseases.
Giving CMs poison/disease mitigants and requiring eventual cures given by Doctors would have been a lot more fun and more complementary. But that's just me.
--doogie
Giving CMs poison/disease mitigants and requiring eventual cures given by Doctors would have been a lot more fun and more complementary. But that's just me.
--doogie
TenshiHanaKinu
Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:59 am
#74
Gnuut wrote:
You ffkers don't belong on the battlefield anyway. You all belong in the rear with the gear.
Doctor Max Healing Range: 6m
CM Max Healing Range: ~40m + Area of Effect
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Who belongs where?
Brainplay
Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:49 am
#75
Please erase some of the previous color posted stuff. You're posts are getting extremely long.
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
Gnuut wrote:
CMs belong on the front lines and Doctors belong in the rear with the gear. I don't see how it can be made any more clearer than that.
Max healing range does not matter when Doctor buffs and Super StimBs are used.
So, you're saying the Doctor profession is useless on the field? I would like to see what it is you are fighting that you would never need a Doctor on the front lines since Buffs won't save you from high-end content. Buffs + armor will, since those 90% resists may help you curb a lot of damage. No he's saying Doctors SHOULD be useless on the field. All of you titles put you in the rear with the gear. Unfortunately that doesn't apply to all of your abilities now. The logic in giving most of those abilities to a Doctor was flawed.
However, my take on this is that you've never been hit with a Dizzy and knocked down. You've never been intimidated or set on fire, or hell, any other state. You've never been poisoned or diseased during combat. That's my take on things. You've never died. You need to get out more. Have been down that road and screaming for a doctor to get them off of me. Then I wonder to myself why a doctor is able to take care of my medical needsin the thick of battle better thanany of my combat medic abilitiesever could. Its really sad when the master of poisons and diseases can't do jack about them himself.
Go fight something challenging. Especially with NPCs using specials again. NPC specials are a joke. About the only thing that still requires any health or action healing centers around two places in this whole game. Hell even nighsisters are still easy. Unfortunatly I have to wear more expensive stun layered armor instead of the cheap 80% kinetic now. Their force powers are still a joke except when they blow up my speed thanks to buffs.
Our great and powerful mind heal ability is limited to a range of 6m. You were saying?
Okay, so you have an ability that you have to be in the thick of combat for. Yup and the more we use it the more ineffective we become at ALL other abilities and make ourselves more vulnerable to attack. Include MIND wounds and bf everytime you area cure and see how you like it.
If that's true, and all Doctor abilities have a range of 6m, that only strengthens the reasoning that Doctors belong in the thick of combat. No actually that doesn't, just the opposite. Novice medics get a range of 6m too. That means nothing.
A CM can heal group damage from far away, a Doctor cannot. A doctor who sits 31m away from Combat is useless, that is not true for a CM. Why is the doctor sitting? You aren't rooted for 4 seconds to use ANY of your abilities. I get rooted for poison/disease AND healing.
You two can continue to one-star me simply because I disagree with what you say. Try presenting information beyond reasonable doubt.
Brainplay
Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:09 am
#76
Vampiresa wrote:
Well! It's true that most doctors don't want to be sitting around just buffing... we want to be the "COMBAT DOCTOR" profession that's lost in the game.......But besides that the problem with CM in battle will not be solve with this new stuff they are going to give us. Correct, instead of a true fix which would be a HAM revamp which would allow MIND buffs and heals to mitigate any MIND poison or even better actually implementing that smuggler spice ahead of time that MITIGATED MIND poison without needing any medical skill we get resists that are easy to make (A's and B's) that resist even the best C poison packs relatively easy.
Why they will give that to DOC and not to CM? Did u see any CM healing in battle? wow I really want to see one! Most CM are there to use the great "mind poison/disease" did u realize it's all about that? if they will just use it against the other 2 bars (action and health) PvP would be different and none will be complaining nowOvergeneralized statement. Thanks for the insult even though I've seenof TK/doctorsnot using their abilites in a group andsavingit for themselves only. If you're a doctor then you should alreadyknow that healinghealth and action in PvP doesn't occure much PERIOD. Armor, buffs, and foods take care of that. Only MIND damage matters and the only profession that can heal that has to do it at a serious penalty and harm to themselves.
The problem is that the only ones that can "heal mind" don't do it because they can solo a big group! why to be healer when u are better than a Jedi? And u complain for the SP u need to master? No we do it alright but we also take big MIND wounds, battlefatigue, and damage everytime we use it jedi dont and they have a great ranged to use theirmind heal abilities. If you're not a Human who can get his focus that high then each use of /healmind is DEVESTATING especially if you're not a human (take that into serious consideration too, humans are spoiled).
The real CB will be no mind poison/disease........or help enter. with better mind buffs! No the real CB will have substat regeneration buffs drastically reduced, medical enhancements spread among various professions (this is the only game where thats not true) ahealable MIND pool, complete nerfing of defense stacking, reduction of armor resists, a serious penalty to melee vs. ranged, states that are tougher to cure, nerfing FR3, gee this list just goes on and on.
Heck, throw something in their for smugglers and commados..geez.
This entire game past meatlumps revolves around armor and more importantly buffs for which we are spoiled.
This is a flaming piece of garbage post.
Morath360
Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:56 am
#77
Gnuut wrote:
Morath I have stated planty of times, the majority of CMs only wish our profession to be worth the points we spend.
This is a whole lot different than saying that CM's do not want to be damage dealers. That is what my objection was to not the SP issue. The vast majority of people became CM for the offense and it is bunk to say otherwise.
AE heals? Doesn't cut it.
Ranged heals? Doesn't cut it.
Mind heal? Doesn't cut it.
Poisons and Diseases with the new Doctor changes? Doesn't cut it.
I'd be happy to give up all offensive ability if CMs were given more healing power in combat. You say this would nerf Doctors? So be it. You ffkers don't belong on the battlefield anyway. You all belong in the rear with the gear.
Nice language.. If you are gonna go that route then I would have say then that Doctors should be superior to CM in everything and they should take you down to medic status as far as SP are concerned. Since when has Doctor ever been inferior to a combat medic.. The reason Docs stay "In the rear with the gear" is because they are too valuable to lose not because they cannot heal as well.