Doctor Archive
Thread: resource requirments for new meds..for those thinking of doing BE crafting
dfnder
Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:46 pm
#53
My opinion on the current news...
They should make it so that the items are easy to make and not difficult to make - then people will do what they LIKE to do and not concentrate on MAKING CREDITS.
Make it a level playing field for all - easy to make buffs and stims means that players will not pay through the nose for them yet everyone will use them.
-
this means all can afford them and will use them -
this means Docs will sell them and make them -
this means people will PvP cause they are on a level playing field where skill matters
There is too much disparitynow between what is Uber and what is Standard.
Get Players PLAYING NOT WORKING!
I enjoy the surveying, there I admit it. I enjoy the crafting, I admit that too.
I like to compete, I admit it!
I do not like having to hoard for over a year to compete with the established Docs etc.Why should longevity have anything to do with success? On that note: don't make worthless their efforts and resourcesthey have accumulated over that time period either.
I really am not whining about it cause I saved up and got my tapes and got my Avian, Tat fibreplast, gas etc. /Shhh... I'm not really even selling my stuff cause it was never about $$ it was about the challenge (buff packs over 940 and blood buffs over 1000).
I hadn't made all I wanted to and this Crafting Change comes,now the "playing field" is changing and all of my hoarding etc. is going to go to waste.
My efforts are diminished and thats what it comes down to and no I don't want to expand the challenge I was just about to complete. I'll just abandon it I am thinking and see if something else will pique my interest ingame.
Either people willa) find new goals or proffesions b)won't careor c) will leave.
Will the post CU keep me interested? All my DOT pikes that I saved up forthe PvP I was GOING to do are also going. I will stick around to try it out but this crafting thing is leaving more of a sour taste than changing my weapons.
Maybe it's time to get into Smuggler like I was planning to with my Alt. (saved up about 300+ containers) Oh wait, aren't they getting rid of slicing as we know it?
IF I need an Uber weapon to compete in PvP and my pike is not nerfed too bad then I will find a place in SWG I think
Message Edited by dfnder on 04-09-2005 05:10 PM
lyrial
Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:51 pm
#54
Hmm as a MasterBE/MasterDoc the list doesn't seem so bad to me, then again I'm rahter used to having to get lots of these as a BE. I'm not sure that its gonna be so bad, you'll just have tons of people harvesting mollusk now instead of everyone going after herb meat and avian meat. I like to think of it as making crafting more interesting 
Carnye
Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:29 pm
#55
It seems to me that instead of just "fixing" things we're getting an entirely new game in so many aspects. I would remind the Devs about their promise to us... if you had uber armor/weapons/etc before... they would be uber after the CU... I want them see them extend that to all aspects of the game: a 12pt Med Suit should still work... huge stockpiles of uber resources should still be useful, If I'm an uber Med/Armor/weapon crafter now, I should be one after the CU... NOT have to start over again, NOT have to totally relearn my trade and NOT have to be in the same position as the totally new player that has ground to Master the day before the CU takes place. If this isn't the case, you've essentially preformed a player-wipe of the server. With the exception of some trinkets and buildings and not having to BECOME what I want to play, you're expecting me to totally start over. THAT is the gaulling part that has so many people up in arms.
At the same time... if you MUST make such grand sweeping changes... out with the old... in with the new... then add some of the things needed to make the transition easier: Harvesters for some of the new, non traditional resources. A fishery, Lobster traps, Oyster Farms, Hatcheries... make it possible to harvest these new resources in a way that is familiar to us that allows us to produce things in a way we're used to... Better yet... add some of the other buildings that have been asked for in the past as the solution for some of these. CH Corrals, BE Menageries to name just a few...
At the same time... if you MUST make such grand sweeping changes... out with the old... in with the new... then add some of the things needed to make the transition easier: Harvesters for some of the new, non traditional resources. A fishery, Lobster traps, Oyster Farms, Hatcheries... make it possible to harvest these new resources in a way that is familiar to us that allows us to produce things in a way we're used to... Better yet... add some of the other buildings that have been asked for in the past as the solution for some of these. CH Corrals, BE Menageries to name just a few...
Broom
Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:29 pm
#56
Marrow1 wrote:
Ok, I am not sure why you guys are complaining. Personaly I think this is very good news. Let me explain.
1. For the most part all of our resouces that we currently use are still being used. So we will not be taking a blood bath on our resouces we currently have.
2. For the most part the same stats for those resouces are used in the same way (OQ/PE for power, etc). These means a great tat fiber will still be a great tat fiber. Avian is used which assuming the products are valuable will mean that our stores of avian will be of use.
3. Lots of new resouces. This will prevent a doc today from just jumping in and dominating the BE prof. Since it takes very few skill points to become a "master" BE crafter (0004) unlike any other crafter resouces will become the barrier to entry. As a long time crafter I would much rather have resouces be the factor and not skill points. If the resouces were easy to get then any newby 0004 BE could start pumping out high end meds. This will reward long time crafters.
4. Lots of new resouces will also mean that the many resouce deads that many of us purchases will be very helpful. Maybe not worth the 150 cpu that we paid but at least will not be junk. If all of the resouces were easy to get then the deads would be worth much less.
5. For those that enjoy crafting for the challange this is great news. Assuming using great resouces make for a noticably better product then those that enjoy resouce hounding, crafting, etc this is good news. Think how boring it would be if you only need org and inorg for everything. This will put the craft back in crafting.
6. The amount of resouces per item. Until we start making them it will be hard to tell if 100 units of avian is a big deal. Lets say the final product has 5 charges that last 5 min each. Then it will be painful. However, if the final product has 100 chargs and lasts for 3 hrs then it will be great. The large number of subs needed will result in smaller batch sizes. Again, it will depend on how long the final product lasts as to the over all impact.
I am a relatively new doc crafter. I have also been a BE for about a year. I do not have the money for resource deeds, so I am screwed. And I can tell you the new organics (already used in BE tissues) are extremely hard to get. Reptilian meat and milk are a pain. As for Mollusc (shelfish harvesting tool), that is just about as bad as they come. You have to stand in wated using the tool. You harvest 2 different shellfish resources, and they do not stack. You cannot go afk for even 10 minutes, because your inventory gets cluttered with little stacks of 2-8 items. With about 10 hours of non-stop harvesting (and paying attention all that time) you may be able to get some 10K of the resource needed. I won't even get started on fish, that is even worse. Bottom line is,these organics are so un-fun to gather, you cannot get people to do it for love or money.
For me, this is pretty much end of the line.
Linna
xixi
Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:03 pm
#57
dfnder wrote:
My opinion on the current news...
They should make it so that the items are easy to make and not difficult to make - then people will do what they LIKE to do and not concentrate on MAKING CREDITS.
Make it a level playing field for all - easy to make buffs and stims means that players will not pay through the nose for them yet everyone will use them.
Finally, someone talking some sense.
If SOE is hoping to avoid making the same old mistakes, they would make these resources much, much easier to get. Keep them as diverse as they like, but simple to come across.
To do otherwise is forgetting one very important thing: how badly SOE/SWG underestimated its player base. I suspect--if they're actually keeping this resource list--that the fish/mollusk/milk thing was intended to make enhancers impossible to get in any quality/quantity. That was probably the same thing they thought about Enhance pack D's when they first devised the crafting system, and we know how that turned out.
People worked hard, adapted, scrounged, bargained, bartered, threatened, and banded together to make enhance D's the standard, not the 'if only'.
Same thing will happen here. Judging by the resource list (or at least the intent--which won't change, no matter what they do to the list that goes live), they're once again making enhancers feel impossible/rare-and-therefore-uber-desirable. In doing so, they're only revvinng up the same old machine that made Doc what (some people think) it is today. But of coursethis time, you'll be adding BE and CM to the money-grubbing gamekiller list.
If, on the other hand, their goal was to eliminate the enhancement system by making the resources unreasonably hard to get, then why didn't they just completely remove enhancements? I mean, if this is simply their means of easing the transition to the new playstyle (by leavingsome sort of enhancement system in place so people don't feel like everything has changed completely), then this is even more insulting than some of us already believe it to be.
So. If they're going to leave some semblance of an enhancement system in play, they need to rethink this list, or repeat the same old mistakes, and re-incite the same old combat whiners this rebalance was intended to silence in the first place.
What will happen is the same thing that happened last time--at first, while the resources are being compiled by the power gamers (should the enhancements prove at all useful) and only some people can afford/access them, there will be a big separation between the haves and have-nots.
While you're imagining the whining during that stage, think ahead to the next step, when these new enhancers start becoming the norm. Then... guess what? If people always have them so they can do things they 'really shouldn't be able to do' like solo krayts or whatever, the system will then be deemed out of balance once more, and we're back to square one.
If you don't agree that with this new CU we can ever reach the solo-everything point we're at again because grouping is the keyword du jour, please think again. You KNOW someone will find a way to solo using exploits, loopholes, or whatever else. It's inevitable.
In the meantime, don't jerk everyone around. If we're to have enhancers, make them accessible to everyone, not just those perceived to be the power gamers. New beginnings call for new approaches, and this looks suspiciously like the same-old, same-old to me.
And briefly, let me leave logic behind to rant for a second: I want the game I bought.I should be able to log in with some reasonable expectation that I will still be able to do the things I like to do, the way I like to do them. I don't want a new game that is worthless to me where the old one I paid $45/mo to play should be.
Worse, I'm now sitting on about $105 of software that will be useless to me once the CU hits, and what do I get? I get people telling me not to be upset that my favorite timesink is fundamentally changed.They may have their playstyle benefited, or be willing to adapt to the new system, so they're getting what they want with thisalleged upgrade. I understand that, and bully for them.
I, however, am having something taken away from me. I don't have either the time or desire to learn an entire new bag of tricks, so I will be as upset as I like (which, admittedly, isn't all that upsetfor various reasons, but being told not to be upset in that habitual condescending tone these people use adds annoyance to the upset)
For now, I'm gonna buff the h*ll out of myself, solo everything in sight, and enjoy it while I can. When the CU hits, I'll cancell all three accounts and never do business with SOE again. If they'll arbitrarily gank SWG, they'll do it with the next big thing, too.
/comfort docs
DoctorBill
Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:27 pm
#58
I am mad because our server had like 5-7 great avian spawns in a row, the docs on valcyn were amazed, I went from being a top buff supplier to just another doc, so docs pretty much became a dime a dozen as everyone mines for resources nowadays, so other than avian meat, nothing was very difficult to get, they also pump out the doc exp attachments so everyone is 12pts in a week or less. I now have about a million units of the best avians and wont really need them. 
I could keep rambling about how they screwed docs before these requirements came out, now the veteran crafters will have a challenge and those that bought several resource kits for roughly 3mill on our server are very lucky, but 100cpu for many new resource requirements will make the new meds very expensive. I enjoy the challenge to make new meds and to try and be one of the better crafters, but I dont enjoy seeing so many resources we already have become pretty much useless.
I actually enjoyed my business slowing down because it really cut down on the tells I was plagued with, now I cant imagine how many people will be screaming for new meds, I will give it my best to try and keep my vendors stocked, but its going to be very frustrating seeing so many things rendered useless.
You ask for recomendations on what to do.
1. Use avian instead of fish and mollusk, these are horrible to gather!
2. Milk isnt bad, but lower the amounts, you barely get 75 units on most animals.
3. Dont make resources planet specific, or specific types, thats just making it even harder to accept changes when there are such specific requirements.
A challenge is fun, making it near impossible isnt, making it so items cost an arm and a leg isnt fun either, the economy is starting to balance out IMO with the changes that have been made already, the way it sits now, the new meds will be outrageous in price, and yet everyone will need them because we cannot heal eachother anymore.
Maybe ask them to make resources so they can be any type of gas, ore, fish, mollusk and then give us more than 3 weeks before they go live as being specific, so make the changes but give us some time to gather stuff.
Combat people will be just as mad as us when they need meds we cannot provide due to the requirements.
I think SOE may be making things planet specific to try and get the population spread out over the galaxy, if this is true then give us more POI's to play at and grind experience or more caves to get more loot, make a cave with BioEngineer loot for us, just try and keep it fun instead of flat out bending us over.
Message Edited by DoctorBill on 04-09-2005 09:31 PM
Obata
Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:56 pm
#59
Rehavam wrote:
And concerning our old components -ABEC's are needed in one single schematic... ACDRM in two schematics... most schematic require the new components.
They aren't new components. Those are the (current) CM components.
I do agree, however, that the resource requirements are insane. In my mind, it's irrelevant though, as I highly doubt that any of the enhancers will have much purpose.
Istare
Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:01 pm
#60
pugguh wrote:
so to make for a fair and challenging gameplay experience for all in the post CU world changes had to happen. now we all look at milk,mollusk, and fish and get funny violent thoughts in our heads but lets try to look at it and see these resources from a all around perspective. these could work with just a little tweaking to pre CU harvesting, ranger already got the big boost they deserved to some extent and hopefully the boost to units per harvest also carried over to milking and fishing....and maybe it would be a good idea to boost these numbers even a little higher for the post CU hunters. try to remember that although we might feel like the most screwed over profession in all this rangers at least til today have had no attention or improvements to their borked skills and post CU skill point requirements. to master ranger will cost more points than any other profession in the game for almost no real gain for those points save a higher yield on harvesting.
It gets worse. More than half of the rangers posting on the boards are planning on quitting or canceling because 1) the skill points are just not worth the abilities gained. 2) Ranger is not a combat profession so critters hit rangers harder than they do docs, for example, and rangers have fewer health points. The ones that say they are sticking are doing so out of stubbornness, mostly, or the hope that maybe, someday, Rangers will get a revamp.
I hope you all know a lot of scouts.
Istare
Tannis D'Arien Master Rifle/Ranger (until CU)
Istare D'Arien Master Tailor/Craft Dabbler Extraordinaire
Tamesis Darien Novice BE (Medic Crafter?! Whose bright idea was that?! I just want to make tissues & blow bases!)
DesktopSaki
Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:17 pm
#61
I'm a Ranger, and I just want to say... Lord, I'm so sorry. That's one hell of a list. I didn't even know anything on Lok gave milk.
Despite being gimped by the CU, I'll do my best to help you guys out. /salute
DesktopSaki
Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:22 pm
#62
Istare wrote:
It gets worse. More than half of the rangers posting on the boards are planning on quitting or canceling because 1) the skill points are just not worth the abilities gained. 2) Ranger is not a combat profession so critters hit rangers harder than they do docs, for example, and rangers have fewer health points. The ones that say they are sticking are doing so out of stubbornness, mostly, or the hope that maybe, someday, Rangers will get a revamp.
I hope you all know a lot of scouts.
We ARE a combat profession, just not according to SOE. We're combat support--or combat supported, rather. We require Many Dead Things to do our thing, and that involves combat, and that involves us either being grouped or taking part in the combat, and that thrusts us into combat and therefore we're a combat class GRARRRR. (Can I say combat one more time?)
I mean--if you guys get guns and are considered a combat class, we should at least get a hunting knife or something. I don't know about the other Rangers, but I stopped skinning with my teeth a while ago. 
Sorry. Just had to rant--not at you, but at SOE's decision to label us crafters. ::sigh::
Anyone want to buy a tent?
Zekk-
Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:14 pm
#63
I am Ch and do alot of resource, and CH arent getting any health bonuses either, and personally i know more CH's that do resources than i do rangers. Oh and have fun with fish, thats just wonderful stuff to collect. And reptile meat, theres only like 4-5 planets that even has a creature that drops thats stuff.
Dawgypoo
Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:24 pm
#64
DesktopSaki wrote:
I didn't even know anything on Lok gave milk.
Probably the only thing on Lok that gives milk is a female GDK with the luck we are getting on this CU!
Marrow1
Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:27 pm
#65
Dawgypoo wrote:
DesktopSaki wrote:
I didn't even know anything on Lok gave milk.
Probably the only thing on Lok that gives milk is a female GDK with the luck we are getting on this CU!
Snorbal and Gurnaset
But for any significant amount you have to go with Snorbal and I do not believe you can get missions for them though I could be wrong.