Doctor Archive
Thread: CM's Nerfed, now it's our turn...
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
Novice Medic: Stimpack A Certification
Medic 0/0/3/0: Stimpack B Certification
Master Medic: Stimpack C Certification
Novice Doctor // Novice CM: Stimpack D Certification
Master Doctor : Stimpack E Certification ( I think MD's are great. We can't fight so let's get the good sh*t
Problem is that'd require moving some schematics around.
Though someone suggested putting certification in the Crafting trees., which may be a better idea.
Sevardos wrote:
Now it's OUR turn? Are you daft? Few fries short of a happy meal?
You're calling a nerf on the entire player base - all combat professions - NOT Doctors. This won't affect Docs one bit because no matter what they do to buffs, players will still want and need buffs.
Yup. That is exactly what he is saying.
And that is exactly what we need.
Doctor's buff is a BUFF. Something that gets ADDED to the current player's stats.
So either it will be meaning less, in which case they will not be used at all, or it will still be meaningful, which means people will still want it no matter the "amount" of nerf.
But although the current buff of "let's make you super solo uber killer" buff is good for making few doctors lots and lots of money, it is sorta killing our purpose in life, which is to heal folks.
The Poison/Disease innoculation have potential to really kill CM's usefulness by preventing someone from getting poisoned/diseased, but the doctor's Buff HAVE killed to a large extent doctor's usefulness by preventing combatant from getting hurt.
Let's nerf Doctor's Buff (i.e. lets nerf every combat profession)
And revive the half dead PURPOSE of the doctors, which is to heal, not just prevent someone from getting hurt.
So whenever anyone want to get off the "newbie" planet, they will have to take Doctor with them. (sure they can take CM, but with enough nerf, SOMEONE in the group will die eventually during the course of hunt and you'll need doctor for rez)
Lets pray for Buff nerf so that players need DOCTORS, notjustdoctor'sBUFFS.
WarFerret wrote:I think it should be that a pack of 1000 power (before or after bivoli, clothes, droid etc.. not sure) should add 200% of your attribute onto that attribute, but Doc buffs need resources whereas entertainer buffs don't, so I feel they should remain more powerful than ent buffs (especially since mind attacks will change form sooner or later, so having huge mind pools won't be the be all and end all of combat).... you still need to fix (at least relax)the species stat caps first though.
Entertainer buff have to be done in a cantina, doc buff always last longer than entertainer buff, and doc buff don't need 10 minutes to apply.
It's a matter of doc should do more because of this and that.
It's a matter of as long as health and action can be puched more than mind, there will be an imbalance in combat.
It's as simple as that.
Gavvot wrote:
Entertainer buff have to be done in a cantina, doc buff always last longer than entertainer buff, and doc buff don't need 10 minutes to apply.
It's a matter of doc should do more because of this and that.
It's a matter of as long as health and action can be puched more than mind, there will be an imbalance in combat.
It's as simple as that.
That's a good point but I still think Doc buffs should be more powerful, Entertainer buffs may be location specific, but then so are Doc buffs for the most part, i.e. outside starports; you go where the buisness is and this is convenient for the customer not the the Doctor (although ques are putting pay to that). Also time wise, yes 10 minutes is inconvenient but it pales into insignificance compaired to the time effort and money docs have to put into resource collection. Besides can't ten people watch an ent at once in preparation for a buff, surely that cuts down on time per cusotmer. (Apologies if I have that wrong but if true it does somewhat lessen the strength of your time arguement even more.)
What ever the case, nothing constructive can be done until the CB and HAM costs etc. are sorted out. We need to take a holistic approach to this problem, and if in the course of doing so Buffs need to be made weaker then fine, if it adds to the playability of the game I'm happy with it. What I don't want to see is combat made worse than it is by taking the knife to docs before fixing everything else, doing that will risk breakingcombat even more than it is already.
Gift.
All the things you can solo with buff, you can solo without.
All the things you cannot solo without buff, you cannot solo them with too.
Maybe the Doc buff should be stronger, but not in the amount of the buff.
Maybe in time or aditional resist or something else.
Entertainer buff is usually 2 hours, doc buff 3 hours.
But the amount of the buff should be very very close to an entertainer buff.
Because all the other type of buff, spice and food, are balanced in that way.
so are armor and weapons and specials ham cost.
They're all based on a balance between health action and mind.
And doc buff break that.
Do you know that there are exact same drink than brandy that buff the exact same way health or action?
Probably not, because no one make them.
Because everybody use doc buff.
If the doc buff weren't so powerfull, the player would have to make a choice : do I buff mind twice, or mind and action or mind an health or health and action?. (50% filling on each and each are drink).
For the moment, he doesn't. He just hit twice is brandy and go on.
Say X species has very weak quickness, well they sure don't want to die quickly to their action pool being hit much harder due to lower quickness than their other stats, so instead of 2 brandy and 3 canape, they use 2 Breath's of heaven (Str, Qui, Foc), a Kiwik Clusjo Swirl (quickness) and some canape. A well balanced HAM.
If the % buffs go in, the rest of the game systems fall into place...
Gavvot wrote:
Combat isn't broken atm.
'Fraid it is, why do you suppose only a handful of professions are in the asendency? When was the last time Carbineers could solo anything without bewing buffed to the nines? Don't take my word for it pop over to their forums and look at what's broken, even my combat profession pistoleer is hopelessly out classed in PvP.
All the things you can solo with buff, you can solo without.
I don't think so, I've tried taking stormtrooper camps unbuffed and a bleed shot later you're cloning without buffs. Try combining with armour and your statement is even less true.
All the things you cannot solo without buff, you cannot solo them with too.
LOL nope I can solo a Stormtrooper camp with a buff, can't without (you're repeating yourself here).
Maybe the Doc buff should be stronger, but not in the amount of the buff.
Maybe in time or aditional resist or something else.
Entertainer buff is usually 2 hours, doc buff 3 hours.
Right but it doesn't cost entertainers major cash to make their buffs, it does for Docs so we should have some benefit.
But the amount of the buff should be very very close to an entertainer buff.
Because all the other type of buff, spice and food, are balanced in that way.
But everything else can be self applied, doctors give special care and services these ought to be better than a quick snack or drink. How the buffs balance depends on how much damage a pool takes in combat, not on direct comparbility between strengths. Doctors are trained medical staff,chefs make a lot of effort but they are nevertheless cooks and therefore should not have comparable health enhacing capapbility to Doctors (we are after all supposed to have PhDs in physiology and medicine).
so are armor and weapons and specials ham cost.
Weapons are not balanced, nor is the HAM cost, if that were true every combat profession would be a good choice for PvP. Last I checked Riflemen and a handfull of others ruled the roost, wanna try a fistful of dollers? Who would win out of a rifleman vs a pistoleer...
They're all based on a balance between health action and mind.
And doc buff break that.
Alas not the aren't even the powerful rifleman is near impossible to play with out buffs and carbineer most certainly is, but like I say go see their forums if you don't believe me or better still go out in a group with them.
Do you know that there are exact same drink than brandy that buff the exact same way health or action?
Probably not, because no one make them.Because everybody use doc buff.
Chefs make mind buffing brandy all the time, and it sells well. Why is it a problem that some of their stuff doesn't sell as well? Even if the buffs were comparable you can only eat/drink so much to buff the chef way, and you're stuffed if you want food resists on top of that too, so people will always use their heads and get doc buffs of the Health/action stats to leave their stomachs empty for other enhancements. Regardless, chef buffs are food not medicine so should not be as strong, they are also self applied and to be honest I doubt many people would support your giving one thing every last break there is; why should chef buffs be self applied, of equal strength to doc buffs and stackable?
If the doc buff weren't so powerfull, the player would have to make a choice : do I buff mind twice, or mind and action or mind an health or health and action?. (50% filling on each and each are drink).
For the moment, he doesn't. He just hit twice is brandy and go on.
No the player would:
a, get a doc buffs
b, get ent buffs
c. stack as many chef buffs on top of this as possible
d. throw on armour
e. Oh and probably pick up TKA for that extra buff edge...
leaving the game:
f, in pretty much the same state it's in, same problem different causes i.e. broken combat specials costing a few professions disproportionate HAM, way way out of scale high end mobs etc. etc.
BTW just what combat profession are you and how high, theres no way you are telling me you can solo the same level of mob unbuffed as buffed regardless of what you are, it's one of the main reasons people are crying nerf as it is!
Gift.
Lexy wrote:
If % buffs get implemented, this would open up whole new markets for Chefs. Imagine all the schematics for Health and Action stat buffs that go wasted, because doc buffs are so strong that only Mind foods are needed. If the HAM was more balanced, instead of popping all mind food/drink, people would actually use a mix.
Say X species has very weak quickness, well they sure don't want to die quickly to their action pool being hit much harder due to lower quickness than their other stats, so instead of 2 brandy and 3 canape, they use 2 Breath's of heaven (Str, Qui, Foc), a Kiwik Clusjo Swirl (quickness) and some canape. A well balanced HAM.
If the % buffs go in, the rest of the game systems fall into place...
That sounds better although I still think doc buffs should be more powerful, medicine ought to be stronger than food afterall.If we don't move to a % system then reallyit would bebetter to scrap rubbish Chef schematics and replace them with more useful resistance food if they are dead weight.
However, Iagree just moving to % buffing would solve that problem as % buffing will stop silly stat migrations to the mind pools. In a% system people will have to consider more carefully what they allocate points to, and Chef food would come back into play as you would use it to bolster a weaker stat on top of a full set of buffs. Doc buffs could still be a little stronger IMHObut as the strengh is linked to % no one will be able to rely on buffs to pick up their character's woeful stats alone. A much much better idea than the current system I think.
Gift.
That is exactly what I just said.
Doc should have some benefit, but NOT in the amount of stat buff.
But everything else can be self applied, doctors give special care and services these ought to be better than a quick snack or drink. How the buffs balance depends on how much damage a pool takes in combat, not on direct comparbility between strengths. Doctors are trained medical staff, chefs make a lot of effort but they are nevertheless cooks and therefore should not have comparable health enhacing capapbility to Doctors (we are after all supposed to have PhDs in physiology and medicine).
Entertainer also give special care and services to cutomser.
I'll leave all the real life stuff out of it because it isn't real life, it's a game and we're discussing game mechanism.
Weapons are not balanced, nor is the HAM cost, if that were true every combat profession would be a good choice for PvP. Last I checked Riflemen and a handfull of others ruled the roost, wanna try a fistful of dollers? Who would win out of a rifleman vs a pistoleer...
Play any combat profession unbuffed and you'll see that HAM cost is balanced.
The funny thing in this is your exemple.
PvP, Rifleman vs Pistoleer, both unbuffed, the pistoleer win almost all the time.
The reason of imbalance in combat profession in PvP and PvE is the doc buff.
Play them unbuffed, and you won't be able to argue on that.
Alas not the aren't even the powerful rifleman is near impossible to play with out buffs and carbineer most certainly is, but like I say go see their forums if you don't believe me or better still go out in a group with them.
Yes they are.
You just have to keep in mind that you aren't supposed to spam speical all the time.
Play an unbuffed TKA, even in PvE.
Spamming specials, you'll drop dead against almost everything.
Chefs make mind buffing brandy all the time, and it sells well. Why is it a problem that some of their stuff doesn't sell as well? Even if the buffs were comparable you can only eat/drink so much to buff the chef way, and you're stuffed if you want food resists on top of that too, so people will always use their heads and get doc buffs of the Health/action stats to leave their stomachs empty for other enhancements. Regardless, chef buffs are food not medicine so should not be as strong, they are also self applied and to be honest I doubt many people would support your giving one thing every last break there is; why should chef buffs be self applied, of equal strength to doc buffs and stackable?
Currently, because of doc buff, people do not have to make choice in food they use.
So they don't.
Last time I checked, none of the chef food last 3 hours, and with balanced doc buff, you don't have any kind of chance to make better than a doc with only food.
Needless to say doc buff + Food will still own everything.
f, in pretty much the same state it's in, same problem different causes i.e. broken combat specials costing a few professions disproportionate HAM, way way out of scale high end mobs etc. etc
The ham cost is not disproportionate between professions.
Some profession have ham cost based on mind, others on health others on action.
The imbalance between Health Action and Mind due to overpowered doc buff create the profession imbalance and make all the profession on wich HAM cost is mind based sux.
BTW just what combat profession are you and how high, theres no way you are telling me you can solo the same level of mob unbuffed as buffed regardless of what you are, it's one of the main reasons people are crying nerf as it is!
Did almost every melee, some pistol with smuggler, and starting rifle.
I don't grind, so I have a pretty good idea of what can each profession fight at each level, and at every level, different profession can take the same kind of mob.
Except with buff.
The profession on wich HAM cost is based on health or action can take much higher than the one based on mind.
That is the problem, and that's what should be fixed.
The fact is every profession has a different way of playing, and if you play a pistoleer like you play a TKA, your pistoleer will sux.
But it's not because the TKA is overpowered, it's because it's easier to play, and you don't use the right tactics for your pistoleer.
Same also work the other way, if you play a TKA just like you play a rifleman, he'll sux.