Doctor Archive
Thread: On 10k buffs and fair pricing...
Waraugh
Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:04 am
#40
People complain, they always will, not everyone does but their will always be atleast one person, if it wasn't 10k it would be 8k. Doc's complain about meat prices, fighters complain about buff prices. I don't see it as a bad thing because it keeps the economy in check. Regardless you will know if your prices are fair and no matter what one or two people will still complain then. Its when your line empty's and everyone's complaining that you should take alook at the price your charging, unless your like me and you don't want a line. 20k buffs work really good for that. Theirs always 1 or 2 fighters that realize that 10 min. to an hour stading in line is alot less profitable than a 20k buff that gets you back out their ASAP.
Bladius
Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:53 am
#41
I play on Lowca and people are cheap ba$tards there...I started charging 15K even though I said I was going to do 20k as I didn't want to introduce sticker shock. Most people were fine, some were downright indignant, "15K!! thats to expensive" and of course there are the docs that are still buffing at 10-12k...so it may take some time. Lowca docs I hope you are reading this and jump onboard and stop undercutting each other. With the armor nerfs coming, buffs are going to be in higher demand I believe...so we need what money we can make just to keep up with supply prices.
Kingporteus
Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:41 am
#42
Personally I find 13K an acceptable price for a buff... mine are usually 2478 for 3hrs and even when people are buffing not 5 meters from me regulars come and get them from me. Does make me smile. Hell, even when I'm out on missions and people ask me and I bump the price up to 15K they still meet me half way and get a buff.
Never had anyone complain that my buffs were priced too high, still get people saying I give good buffs and I'm never lacking for customers.
That being said I do buy my buffpacks from two other Master Docs simply because I don't have the scout prof to harvest my own avian meat and others charge way to high for it.
Bladius
Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:30 pm
#43
You covered cost of materials..but what is your overall time worth? Personally I could spend hours trying to collect enough meat, or hours searching for a vendor selling the right materials that charge 100CPU. Not to mention I would like to have a piece of the pie that everyone else gets by using my 3 hour buff to make 300k or more (PvP does not count...stop PvP and run one mission to pay for your buff)....I need armor, weapons, mortgage payments, vendor payments, factory costs etc....I am afraid 100k profit per set of buffsis not that much when you figure in the time and cost of the other items I mentioned....hell I might as well just go get buffed at 10k from some other Doc who has not realized he's losing money and kill Jantas for 26k every 10 minutes....oh but wait I'm a Doctor..not a fighter (yet)....
Tlk
Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:48 pm
#44
Very good point Bladiius, and one I have not seen before. The time for gathering resources, hunting them, surveying for them or buying them of course would be incorporated into your price from an economic point of view. But I seriously doubt anyone thought 10k a buff or more is justifiedbecause of what you personally put into it. Buffs were going for2 to 6 k back in October. If it was profitable then, why not now? If you are buying your resources then it is udnerstandable why you charge more, to offset the miners/harvestors who saw the large cost of buffs and decided to charge more.
It is an inflation economy, people are able to make money easier, can buy more things, can make money even easier because of what they bought, so prices go up as a demand increases. Players really should prep themselves for the buffs to go up even higher. I don't think there will be a change in the economy until the combat revamp next summer. But the overall reason buffs cost what they do, is because people are willing to pay it.
Greenbulb
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:52 pm
#45
Good greif,everyone just kill the rangers selling at 300-400cpu for avain meat. 
allgoodnamestaken
Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:25 pm
#46
Well I for one listed everything that I take into account when setting the price of my buff. Doctor is my first and foremost chosen profession, I joined near the end of the hologrinding era thus never even considered dumping the trade. I also do not have the money nor the resources to compete with people that have been around for a year. I however have accomplished my goal, I'm a Master Doc. I can heal, revive and buff my friends. I enjoy hunting with my friends, our whole group joined at the same time and work together as a group all the time.
In my view, my time, delayed and separated from supporting my friends justifies a raise in price since my buffing is a service that I don't *have* to do. I also must recover the large start up costs for being an effective Doctor. I also want to be able to craft effectively so that means I must raise enough money to compete with those willing to drop 1mil+ on med exp SEAs, something I can't do. Granted being a 12pt Doc isn't a must, however my medical services should pay for that cost.
Also in part of my medical services, I dispense Stims, State Heals, and Cures. All of which I do willingly and don't ask for tips, although tips would be nice, it is something I rarely....and I mean rarely see. This means the cost for crafting them must be covered somewhere, which brings me back to buffs.
My buffs constantly cover the price of buffpacks, bivoli, batteries - All which are consumable resources. The buffs are still recupping the costs of my harvestors, resources, BE clothes, Droid. Time spentis a huge factor in buffing price, not only the time I "have" to spend buffing but also the time I spent gathering everything needed to do this function as well as expenses.
Tlk
Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:40 am
#47
I noticed some posters here and elsewhere seem to justify the cost of buffs due to the difficulty in making them, the cost to the doctor, how much money a customer can make with them, etc.None of these reasons justify 10k or more for buffs. The only reason buffs are selling for 10k is because there is a large enough population of players paying for them.When it comes to quality of the buffs, anything over 1500 really isn't needed for PvE.If the largely popular arguement of PvE solo group making x amount of credits so a doc should get x amount for providing the means to accomplish it, a chef should then charge x for the bivoli, and havla and other foods docs use for the same reason. Weaponsmiths should charge much more for the weapons they sell, and tailors should charge huge amounts for special clothes, especially for professions where they only need to buy 1 ever (such as an apron for doctors). We need to be careful about justifying what we charge for buffs (I personally do not buff non guildmates, so no matter what everyone here says, I will not be affected). We charge whatever we can charge, any other reason is just mirrors and smoke to try to avoid the real reason.
Numbers as follows are estimates for demonstration purposes:
1 full buff set = 6 items at 20 uses = 20 buff sessions
1 full buff set requires = 180 Avian Meat, 180 Reactive Gas, 100 Dolovite Iron, 100 Domesticated Oats, 100 class 4 Liquid Petrofuel, 100 Herbivore Meat, 120 Tatooinian Fiberplast, 120 Lokian Wheat
Master Doctor charging 10k a buff will recieve 200k in credits. In a 24 hour period at a 60% spawn spot, the doctor can pay 1500 credits for maintenance for a mining harvestor and get 2k or more resources, that is enough for at least 10 full buff sets. They only spent 9000 to collect the resources. To get the scouting resources, the price varies. They will earn 2 million credits by selling the buffs at 10k a buff. They only need to make 1 schematic of each and have a factory manufacture them. So we are in essence charging 100x mark up of the personal cost.
So it is not expensive to make buffs, not diffiuclt or overly time consuming. The only difficult part is to get the resources from the creatures and finding spawn spots of good quality (but once they are found, a forward thinking doctor will harvest as much as he can).
Message Edited by Tlk on 07-16-2004 12:46 PM
Fifer2
Sat Jul 17, 2004 8:19 am
#48
I used to be a Master Doc on Lowca. When I would go out to buy buffs, I would get two sets (all 6 stats, 25 uses per set). Never would I spend over 150k for those buffs. With my Bivoli and Wound Treatment clothes, I would buff 2300 for 3:10, and charge 8k. What do I make off of that? 400k. Take the cost of buying them, and I have a profit of 250k. That 250k will allow me to buy more buff packs. I believed the only buff worth paying 10k would be 2400+ for 3:30+. I never had a problem making a large amount of money buffing.
Raising the prices won't fix it. Your saying "Oh these people go out and make 1.2 mil on there Buffs running Jantas on Dant". Well, lets look at their expenses. Armor to grind up to the point where they can do jantas? 250k min (not counting in what many have to pay for repairs), considering armor prices are skyhigh on some servers. Buffs to do get up that far? For the powergamer, 50k depending on profession. For the casual player (most people), around 80-120k. Brandy costs? 250k a crate. Canape costs? 200k a crate, and they will run out before they master most likely, so another 200k for a crate. Weapons cost? Anywhere from 10k for a couple of VKs to 150k for some good rifles or PHs. Lets add up THEIR cost.
For the average player, thats about 1 mil they will most likely spend mastering a profession. People running jantas still have a 450k deficit to run off on food. Many comnbat players have a Crafting profession too. This isn't counting how much they pay for the maitenance on their house, how much they pay for power and resources and harvesters, and how much they pay to do these things. Combat players have expenses too. 20k a buff? Please, your just getting more money hungry.
Raising the prices won't fix it. Your saying "Oh these people go out and make 1.2 mil on there Buffs running Jantas on Dant". Well, lets look at their expenses. Armor to grind up to the point where they can do jantas? 250k min (not counting in what many have to pay for repairs), considering armor prices are skyhigh on some servers. Buffs to do get up that far? For the powergamer, 50k depending on profession. For the casual player (most people), around 80-120k. Brandy costs? 250k a crate. Canape costs? 200k a crate, and they will run out before they master most likely, so another 200k for a crate. Weapons cost? Anywhere from 10k for a couple of VKs to 150k for some good rifles or PHs. Lets add up THEIR cost.
For the average player, thats about 1 mil they will most likely spend mastering a profession. People running jantas still have a 450k deficit to run off on food. Many comnbat players have a Crafting profession too. This isn't counting how much they pay for the maitenance on their house, how much they pay for power and resources and harvesters, and how much they pay to do these things. Combat players have expenses too. 20k a buff? Please, your just getting more money hungry.
Zon-
Sat Jul 17, 2004 9:59 am
#49
I've made about 3 million in two hours buffing. I'm not complaining.
but I do charge 16k for buffs and 50k for line cutters.
Nornerator
Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:40 am
#50
Fifer2 wrote:
I used to be a Master Doc on Lowca. When I would go out to buy buffs, I would get two sets (all 6 stats, 25 uses per set). Never would I spend over 150k for those buffs. With my Bivoli and Wound Treatment clothes, I would buff 2300 for 3:10, and charge 8k. What do I make off of that? 400k. Take the cost of buying them, and I have a profit of 250k. That 250k will allow me to buy more buff packs. I believed the only buff worth paying 10k would be 2400+ for 3:30+. I never had a problem making a large amount of money buffing.
Raising the prices won't fix it. Your saying "Oh these people go out and make 1.2 mil on there Buffs running Jantas on Dant". Well, lets look at their expenses. Armor to grind up to the point where they can do jantas? 250k min (not counting in what many have to pay for repairs), considering armor prices are skyhigh on some servers. Buffs to do get up that far? For the powergamer, 50k depending on profession. For the casual player (most people), around 80-120k. Brandy costs? 250k a crate. Canape costs? 200k a crate, and they will run out before they master most likely, so another 200k for a crate. Weapons cost? Anywhere from 10k for a couple of VKs to 150k for some good rifles or PHs. Lets add up THEIR cost.
For the average player, thats about 1 mil they will most likely spend mastering a profession. People running jantas still have a 450k deficit to run off on food. Many comnbat players have a Crafting profession too. This isn't counting how much they pay for the maitenance on their house, how much they pay for power and resources and harvesters, and how much they pay to do these things. Combat players have expenses too. 20k a buff? Please, your just getting more money hungry.
I, am a master doctor. I also recently mastered Teras Kasi, it took 10 days of casual gaming taking low level missions I Tripled what I paid for Armor and Brandy. I didn't even use Ahrisa. A combat Proffessions investments all last a very long time, even Vasarian Brandy A crate last me 2 weeks. Very good Armor costs about 500k (non sliced) And comes with Repair kits (at least all mine have so far) Armor can easily last 2-3 months if it is repaired properly. So there is no doubt that they make easily 5,000 times in 2-3 months what the Armor cost them. Brandy is an expense, which is made up easily, and so is Ahrisa. (Canape is more for PvP, which doesnt make any money anyways) So For their investments they make Thousands of times more money than what they originally paid. So dont go on saying that Combat proffessions have a lot of expenses, because they dont.
Fifer2
Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:12 am
#51
Yeah we do. 1) Everybody but an Armorsmith will fail 3/5 times repairing their armor. The smart ones pay an AS to do it. 2) Your assuming that everybody that is getting a buff is going out to make 1 mil a buff set doing jantas. I would say maybe 1/4 of the people do. Most people try to have fun, and that usually doesn't entail doing Jantas for three hours.
And about expenses, look at me. I am a TKM / Fencer / Swords, entirely combat, and I have large expenses. Armor repairs (need to get my ubese repaired every other day) are about 50k. Weapons have to be repaired, and new ones have to be bought every few weeks. Thats just the tip of the iceberg. Saying we dont have expenses is being ignorant and stupid.
Now, your expenses are just the same as any other crafting profession. They all have to buy resources too, and they dont get mad at it. You dont see the chefs raising there brandy prices to 500k a crate, or DEs making a mouse droid cost 100k. You have to buy resources, get over it. Face it, some of your customers will always have more money than you, and most of the docs we see will always have more money than us. Face it. It is easy for you to make money, don't complain about it.
And about expenses, look at me. I am a TKM / Fencer / Swords, entirely combat, and I have large expenses. Armor repairs (need to get my ubese repaired every other day) are about 50k. Weapons have to be repaired, and new ones have to be bought every few weeks. Thats just the tip of the iceberg. Saying we dont have expenses is being ignorant and stupid.
Now, your expenses are just the same as any other crafting profession. They all have to buy resources too, and they dont get mad at it. You dont see the chefs raising there brandy prices to 500k a crate, or DEs making a mouse droid cost 100k. You have to buy resources, get over it. Face it, some of your customers will always have more money than you, and most of the docs we see will always have more money than us. Face it. It is easy for you to make money, don't complain about it.
Greenbulb
Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:49 am
#52
Your Wrong.
Fifer2 wrote:
Yeah we do. 1) Everybody but an Armorsmith will fail 3/5 times repairing their armor. The smart ones pay an AS to do it. 2) Your assuming that everybody that is getting a buff is going out to make 1 mil a buff set doing jantas. I would say maybe 1/4 of the people do. Most people try to have fun, and that usually doesn't entail doing Jantas for three hours.
And about expenses, look at me. I am a TKM / Fencer / Swords, entirely combat, and I have large expenses. Armor repairs (need to get my ubese repaired every other day) are about 50k. Weapons have to be repaired, and new ones have to be bought every few weeks. Thats just the tip of the iceberg. Saying we dont have expenses is being ignorant and stupid.
Now, your expenses are just the same as any other crafting profession. They all have to buy resources too, and they dont get mad at it. You dont see the chefs raising there brandy prices to 500k a crate, or DEs making a mouse droid cost 100k. You have to buy resources, get over it. Face it, some of your customers will always have more money than you, and most of the docs we see will always have more money than us. Face it. It is easy for you to make money, don't complain about it.