Doctor Archive

---

TarMangani wrote:

---

Traigus wrote:
If you go out and look, you will only see docs healing people they already know. All the current uber templates include only Novice medic, for Uber stim Bs. It is the way the game is currently being played. Nobody NEEDS us. You may have friends that WANT you... that's something else. Currrently, the only needed part of Doc are buffs, and 12 point crafting to make the best stim Bs to sell. it is worse for CM sicne tey got nerfed back to the stone age.. .they don't even have buffs ore saleable (to other people) stims.


There are plenty of things I don't like about the new system... I'm not a RAH RAH guy here... But you really need to step back and see how busted doc in now, a lot of you think its fine... not even close. A lot of the changes make a lot more sense if you can step back and see how it is all busted to hell (all the healing and combat together)it all is (though I still don't agree with a lot of the changes).

System-wise the docs pretty much make out well.

The largest screwjob we face is our massive investments of cash (and we are not alone here... Just about all gear related to combat will be converted... all weapons, armor, SEAs etc. are gonna be hit hard. they ahve to automate the conversion. The millions someone paid for a small increase in weapon stats may poof away to a gun with the same stats as soemone that paid less (but still a lot) for a different high end gun. I don't know any more on this then that. Overall, the economy is gonna get pounded.

---

If you go out and look, you will only see docs healing people they already know.

Until you go out to every server and every starport, you can't make a watered down, generalized statement like this. There are many of us that heal continuously, and strangers to boot.

Nobody NEEDS us. You may have friends that WANT you... that's something else. Currrently, the only needed part of Doc are buffs, and 12 point crafting to make the best stim Bs to sell

Again, NAIVE. Stop stereotyping man! We do heal and there are those that need us. The only aspect where your statements fit is within the average group players don't need us and that's because the buffs are strong enough they don't take damage. However, for the Master Doctors, we still have a role in combat in the higher level dungeons. DWB, Corvette, even the Warren, I've had my hands full healing players. Master Doctors = Masters of other elite professions healing.

I'm not a RAH RAH guy here... But you really need to step back and see how busted doc in now, a lot of you think its fine... not even close.

Please...There is NOTHING busted about the doc profession. The only thing that is wrong is the buffs are too strong. They could take leave the HAM alone and simply reduce the strength of buffs to 20% (per stat) and we'd be just fine. Where else are we busted?

The doctor profession is taking up the rear end because we're losing our variety and being relegated to nothing more than walking ambulances...

---

I have gone out and looked. 9 servers + TC (not all at once, I don't have that many char slots).

The devs made the changes for reasons that are pretty close to the ones I said (and no I didn't go and give them the idea). They have all sorts of stat programs running in the background of the game. They all also play the game. This isn't just me here seeing this.

Rant and rave all you like. The choice has been made. I don't like a lot of the solutions, but I'm not going to argue with the reeasons... because they are pretty obvious.

---

I8TheWorm wrote:

Again, losing crafting doesn't diminish the doc profession at all. You can still be a doc AND craft by picking up (some of?) BE. And when the CU hits, you only have to click a couple of times to do it.

The choice is really yours, but you're going to have to make one. History proves that complaint threads don't seem to sway the devs at all.

---

Answered in the other thread but same answer applies. We lose Skill Points if we take the BE line.

Besides, think of the logic of your statement. We're LOSING crafting, but that means we're not being diminished?

Also, we KNOW where to go to regain the crafting thread, (BE), the issue is the SP priceinvolved.

I'm more than aware of the choice that is being forced on us all, but tell me, what threads DO sway the devs? The "WOW! GREAT JOB!" kind?

No matter how carefully one words a post, if we disagree, it's construed as a complaint...

---

Traigus wrote:

If you go out and look, you will only see docs healing people they already know.

Nobody NEEDS us. You may have friends that WANT you... that's something else. Currrently, the only needed part of Doc are buffs, and 12 point crafting to make the best stim Bs to sell

I'm not a RAH RAH guy here... But you really need to step back and see how busted doc in now, a lot of you think its fine... not even close.

---

Now those are good points, but I will say it does sound like penalising a profession because it opperates through it's network of friends rather than as shop front. In anycase I'm happy with the change in buff situation, and I understand how that helps. However, I can't see how the loss of crafting will help with stims, the probelm will just be knocked on to medics and BEs. They'll make the best stims they can to replace the ub3r StimBs, they may not be as gooc but now everyone can use them so its really a further errosion of Doc not a bolstering move.

Gift.

---

Traigus wrote:

I have gone out and looked. 9 servers + TC (not all at once, I don't have that many char slots).

The devs made the changes for reasons that are pretty close to the ones I said (and no I didn't go and give them the idea). They have all sorts of stat programs running in the background of the game. They all also play the game. This isn't just me here seeing this.

Rant and rave all you like. The choice has been made. I don't like a lot of the solutions, but I'm not going to argue with the reeasons... because they are pretty obvious.

---

There is no ranting and raving, I simply disagree with you that the profession is busted. BUFFS are broken, and as a result, ppl don't need us. Fix the buffs, and ppl need us.

Look at what you're saying. NOBODY needs us..., you're statement is wrong. Players DO need us, they just don't need us as much with buffs being as they are. you will only see docs healing people they already know... Not true. There are still docs that heal people they don't know.

So to make these "absolute" statements causes rebuttals.

IMO,the devs saw things they didn't like with how the game is being played and decided to change it. That's their perogative I guess, they have that power.

However I've said it and I'll say it again, all that is broken is the buffs, not the profession. I asked you to explain to us what part of the profession besides buffs is broken and you didn't, you only told me to rant and rave all I want, the decision is made. So WILL you answer the question?

Let me clarify, this isn't a whine thread, it's a debate thread. People say something, others disagree and give their reasons why. That's what I'm doing...

If you want to continue the discussion, I'd be more than happy to do so. However don't concede the point with "rant and rave all you want, the devs agree with me so there!" type statements.

Also, I've never once posted in here asking the devs to NOT do it. The choice has been made, we can't change it, all the threads in the world can't change that. All I've ever asked ANYONE to do is be honest.

My statement is the CU will cause crafting docs to lose millions. This is because with buffs being dimished, the demand is being dimished.

I don't need someone to tell me WHY it's being done, I already know all the justifications...

---

I8TheWorm wrote

I think, just like when folks started their templates, there will have to be sacrifices made to continue on as they'd planned

I think that resources will still be necessary, even those purchased with vet rewards.. use 'em or sell 'em

We have yet to see anything specifically doc related pertaining to the CURB

---

I concede your point, however I'll ask you to concede mine, especially when you already have.

You said:

Again, losing crafting doesn't diminish the doc profession at all. You can still be a doc AND craft by picking up (some of?) BE.

Then you say:

---

TarMangani wrote:

---

I8TheWorm wrote

I think, just like when folks started their templates, there will have to be sacrifices made to continue on as they'd planned

I think that resources will still be necessary, even those purchased with vet rewards.. use 'em or sell 'em

We have yet to see anything specifically doc related pertaining to the CURB

---

I concede your point, however I'll ask you to concede mine, especially when you already have.

You said:

Again, losing crafting doesn't diminish the doc profession at all. You can still be a doc AND craft by picking up (some of?) BE.

Then you say:

there will have to be sacrifices made to continue on as they'd planned

I agree with your second statement. If the crafting role is not longer done by a doctor, then the doctor profession is dimished...and a sacrifice.

Yes or no?

---

Touche... and conceded. I suppose what I meant was that it will be possible to do both, but you're right, just not as a master doctor.

---

Cafa wrote:

Ultimately, for me, it matters a lot what that fourth column now holds. Looking forward to seeing the results.

Cafa Asia

---

I agree, I'd like to seesomething new and useful, however judging from Texxie's posts in another thread we probably shouldn't get our hopes up.

Gift.

---

TarMangani wrote:

---

Traigus wrote:

I have gone out and looked. 9 servers + TC (not all at once, I don't have that many char slots).

The devs made the changes for reasons that are pretty close to the ones I said (and no I didn't go and give them the idea). They have all sorts of stat programs running in the background of the game. They all also play the game. This isn't just me here seeing this.

Rant and rave all you like. The choice has been made. I don't like a lot of the solutions, but I'm not going to argue with the reeasons... because they are pretty obvious.

---

There is no ranting and raving, I simply disagree with you that the profession is busted. BUFFS are broken, and as a result, ppl don't need us. Fix the buffs, and ppl need us.

Look at what you're saying. NOBODY needs us..., you're statement is wrong. Players DO need us, they just don't need us as much with buffs being as they are. you will only see docs healing people they already know... Not true. There are still docs that heal people they don't know.

So to make these "absolute" statements causes rebuttals.

IMO, the devs saw things they didn't like with how the game is being played and decided to change it. That's their perogative I guess, they have that power.

However I've said it and I'll say it again, all that is broken is the buffs, not the profession. I asked you to explain to us what part of the profession besides buffs is broken and you didn't, you only told me to rant and rave all I want, the decision is made. So WILL you answer the question?

Let me clarify, this isn't a whine thread, it's a debate thread. People say something, others disagree and give their reasons why. That's what I'm doing...

If you want to continue the discussion, I'd be more than happy to do so. However don't concede the point with "rant and rave all you want, the devs agree with me so there!" type statements.

Also, I've never once posted in here asking the devs to NOT do it. The choice has been made, we can't change it, all the threads in the world can't change that. All I've ever asked ANYONE to do is be honest.

My statement is the CU will cause crafting docs to lose millions. This is because with buffs being dimished, the demand is being dimished.

I don't need someone to tell me WHY it's being done, I already know all the justifications...

---

I thought I covered it... te part of DOc that is broken most of all is the way healing works in the game. The whole of Doc. The devs made and error when they made the game. They made the healer classes also a crafting class... it is a fundimental cross of player types that limits traditional player roles in the game.

The only reason that it has not caused a major trainwreck in the game itself is because buffs and stim Bs are so unbalanced that the traditional healer role is taken by self healers with B's in te field. There were major complaints by healers about the crafting requirements in both the betas and after the game went live. When many of te core MMOG healer types left, nobody noticed... becuse people weren't using live doc healing in game very much.

Look at these boards... look at the posts before the CU stuff hit... 99.9% of the posts were on 2 topics... 1.) Buffs (including resources and howto get 12 pt doc) and 2.) buffbots (pro /against)... the 3rd type, and more rare was some threads on jedi XP villige stuff (which is way outa wack).

Zero threads on healing, fun adventure healing, or any other healing topic. There used to be, but I haven't seen them... not in a long time.

I'm sorry if I read your posts as ranty... Your word choice leads me to read that that way. if I am mis-reading them, I am sorry.

-T

I thought I covered it... the part of Doc that is broken most of all is the way healing works in the game. The whole of Doc. The devs made and error when they made the game. They made the healer classes also a crafting class... it is a fundimental cross of player types that limits traditional player roles in the game.

I'm not sure what is being said here. Are you saying that healing is broken because doctors are crafters? To clarify, let's separate the two.

Aside from the fact that doctors are crafters, is there a problem with the way healing works in the game? If so, is that issue SPECIFIC to a doctor, or the healing system itself? (i.e. if you were to say totally change the buff strength, is healing still broken)?

Now to the crafting. Why is it that crafting causes a problem? Are they saying that people who are doctors that craft but don't heal is an issue?

Zero threads on healing, fun adventure healing, or any other healing topic. There used to be, but I haven't seen them... not in a long time.

From the sounds of it, are the devs trying to force doctors into one specific category then, straight healer? If so, then what, if any, defense do they have that we won't be anything more than walking ambulances?

Also, if we're trying to look at a r/l comparison, it's the medics and combat medics that travel with adventurers, doctors are rear echelon support. Since poison and disease are cured not via doctor "surgeon" skills, but rather via med packs, this could easily be done by say a Master Combat Medic.

It seems to me that what is left of the doctor profession won't provide very much fun since the majority of the healing can be handled by a combat medic during adventures, with the exception of maybe poisons and/or heals...

I'm sorry if I read your posts as ranty... Your word choice leads me to read that that way. if I am mis-reading them, I am sorry.

They're not rants, they're passionate disagreements. You're arguments have been statements of absolute arguments, (NO doctors are healing unless they know the person). A better presentation would be "TOO MANY doctors..."

However I've been around enough to believe, (cynical but true), that devs make up their own minds on the core changes, then take player thoughts into consideration on the minor issues. (i.e. I think they will separate crafter from doctor no matter what ANY player says, no matter how many players say it, and no matter how they present it). It presents a sort of totalitarian form of game changes.

---

---

TarMangani wrote:

I thought I covered it... the part of Doc that is broken most of all is the way healing works in the game. The whole of Doc. The devs made and error when they made the game. They made the healer classes also a crafting class... it is a fundimental cross of player types that limits traditional player roles in the game.

I'm not sure what is being said here. Are you saying that healing is broken because doctors are crafters? To clarify, let's separate the two.

Aside from the fact that doctors are crafters, is there a problem with the way healing works in the game? If so, is that issue SPECIFIC to a doctor, or the healing system itself? (i.e. if you were to say totally change the buff strength, is healing still broken)?

Now to the crafting. Why is it that crafting causes a problem? Are they saying that people who are doctors that craft but don't heal is an issue?

Zero threads on healing, fun adventure healing, or any other healing topic. There used to be, but I haven't seen them... not in a long time.

From the sounds of it, are the devs trying to force doctors into one specific category then, straight healer? If so, then what, if any, defense do they have that we won't be anything more than walking ambulances?

Also, if we're trying to look at a r/l comparison, it's the medics and combat medics that travel with adventurers, doctors are rear echelon support. Since poison and disease are cured not via doctor "surgeon" skills, but rather via med packs, this could easily be done by say a Master Combat Medic.

It seems to me that what is left of the doctor profession won't provide very much fun since the majority of the healing can be handled by a combat medic during adventures, with the exception of maybe poisons and/or heals...

I'm sorry if I read your posts as ranty... Your word choice leads me to read that that way. if I am mis-reading them, I am sorry.

They're not rants, they're passionate disagreements. You're arguments have been statements of absolute arguments, (NO doctors are healing unless they know the person). A better presentation would be "TOO MANY doctors..."

However I've been around enough to believe, (cynical but true), that devs make up their own minds on the core changes, then take player thoughts into consideration on the minor issues. (i.e. I think they will separate crafter from doctor no matter what ANY player says, no matter how many players say it, and no matter how they present it). It presents a sort of totalitarian form of game changes.

---

---

Sorry, I don't use IE, so I don't get neat color options unless I hand code ;(

1.) Yes, healing and combat are broken down at their foundations (so is crafting BTW.. there are strange math bits that get results that should not happen.. SOme were fixed during BE craftign changes, but there are some still lurking in there).

It is a demographic problem. Healers are teir own subtype of player. Crafters are as well. there are overlaps. There are some crafters that like to heal, and some healers that are hardcore combat people, but by and large the studies show healers are their own type. Since healers and crafters are basically different types of players, creating a profession that really relies on the player wanting to be botha crafter and a Healer is a fundimental flaw. SWG made this error with many professions (Commandoes used to have to craft as well.. they took the crafting out).

It is not thet peopel that like crafting and healing are bad or wrong... just that there aren't enough of them to cover the healing needs of the game. SWG drives away healer types with its massve crafting, mercantile (resource gatering/purchasing) and other non-healing oriented activities. Traditionally games allow you to mix (say Doc and Weaponsmith) if you want to be a crafter. SWG doesn't really give you the option... you have to craft to level (and macros aren't the answer here... the design is for Doctors to craft).

I'll admit just lessening the crafting would have probably been enough (making generic packs instead of packs for every stat, every state etc.) to get the traditional healers in. Overall, I think the devs went too far in the new system in most places.

The changes were made to make Doc appealing to traditional MMOG healers, not to the crafter/merchant hybrids most remaining docs seem to be.


2.)Docs seem to be getting both long and short term buffs (short term are probably ones you need to be grouped with.. I have seen no info on them (Blue glowies were booted out of the corre forum today. earlier then we were told we would be). Docs will also have rez packs and the like. I haven't seen it all, but it looks to be groups woudl liek to ahve both a CM and Doc along... In most games the CM/DOC would be 1 person, SWG seems to have the roles split into 2 professions.

3.) Hey, I never said I wasn't ranting
In many ways I'd agree... one of the reasons a lot of us are retired. The issues that are brought up here were brought up by Corre's and glowies, then by Sandbox people, now by the general public. But, stuff is still going to go the way it goes. You'll see more personal opinions by the glowies on the CU because we are "banned from the ranch" and not privvy to stuff. A lot of us don't like various aspects of the proposed CU, and generally have mention most of the ways you all won't like it. I don't see them stepping back fro mthe big changes. I dunno in te timeframe if they will even step back from the small stuff. The yare hemmed in by RoW, and they don't want to have to rebalance all the encoutners in that as well as the existing game after the CU.

-T

---

Traigus wrote:

Sorry, I don't use IE, so I don't get neat color options unless I hand code ;(

My apologies on the color limitations...

The changes were made to make Doc appealing to traditional MMOG healers, not to the crafter/merchant hybrids most remaining docs seem to be.

I hope that once and for all this will silence ANYONE who says that docs aren't being made to look like EQ, WOW, and other MMOG's...

In many ways I'd agree... one of the reasons a lot of us are retired. The issues that are brought up here were brought up by Corre's and glowies, then by Sandbox people, now by the general public. But, stuff is still going to go the way it goes. You'll see more personal opinions by the glowies on the CU because we are "banned from the ranch" and not privvy to stuff. A lot of us don't like various aspects of the proposed CU, and generally have mention most of the ways you all won't like it. I don't see them stepping back fro mthe big changes. I dunno in te timeframe if they will even step back from the small stuff. The yare hemmed in by RoW, and they don't want to have to rebalance all the encoutners in that as well as the existing game after the CU.

Did they tell you guys anything specific regarding the economic effects, etc.?