Doctor Archive

Thread: why be a doctor after the CURB

Traigus
Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:31 pm
#27



TarMangani wrote:


MorvenDee wrote:
I think doctors will be needed as healers in and around battles, like priest classes in fantasy games.


Sure, but after being able to do that already, plus craft, it's a demotion...




Not really, no.

Nobody needs you to heall now... They are gonna need a lot of healers after the CU.

The need for both doctors and CMs will shoot up.

Right now in SWG, a doc is a glorified buff dispenser (or a bot). Everyone pretty much self heals with Stim B's and uber templates.

it is hard to be demoted from a vending machine.

-T



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"We've got a blind date with destiny -- and it looks like she ordered the lobster."

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Marrow1
Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:01 pm
#28






Traigus wrote:





TarMangani wrote:





MorvenDee wrote:
I think doctors will be needed as healers in and around battles, like priest classes in fantasy games.





Sure, but after being able to do that already, plus craft, it's a demotion...






Not really, no.

Nobody needs you to heall now... They are gonna need a lot of healers after the CU.

The need for both doctors and CMs will shoot up.

Right now in SWG, a doc is a glorified buff dispenser (or a bot). Everyone pretty much self heals with Stim B's and uber templates.

it is hard to be demoted from a vending machine.

-T




I dont really get where people say "docs are not needed to heal today". Every night I log in someone wants me to either roll with them pvping or go down the DWB, NS hunting, or some such thing. I all I got is healing (doc/cm) so it isn't for my marksman skills.


If all you are T is a vending machine it is because that is what you have made of your toon.


Yes, others will need more healing after the CU but that kind of healing is best served by CM, not doc.








__________[Marrow]__________
____[*aka Fringing, Babwe, Hurtz *]____

__/\_/\___/\_____[last of the known Doctor Correspondents]/\___/\_/\__
TarMangani
Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:20 am
#29






Traigus wrote:
Not really, no.

Nobody needs you to heal now... They are gonna need a lot of healers after the CU.

The need for both doctors and CMs will shoot up.

Right now in SWG, a doc is a glorified buff dispenser (or a bot). Everyone pretty much self heals with Stim B's and uber templates.

it is hard to be demoted from a vending machine.




That's a naive statement. I happen to heal plenty of times in the game.


Nobody is saying our role isn't going to change, we're saying we're losing our shirts from the crafting angle, which is true.


And not all docs are buff dispensers either. I've been a MD for a very long time and rarely buff unless the mood (or necessity strikes me). Statements like this are stereotypical. Many of us can roleplay the profession just fine as it stands....


The need for doctors and CMs IS going to shoot up, but please tell me how we are going to NOT be glorified ambulances, the way clerics and healers are in EQ and WOW...


It IS a demotion. Before we could heal, buff, craft, and sell. Now we're nothing more than glorified band aid dispensers...


Message Edited by TarMangani on 03-21-2005 09:22 AM



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I8TheWorm
Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:32 am
#30



TarMangani wrote:


Traigus wrote:
Not really, no.

Nobody needs you to heal now... They are gonna need a lot of healers after the CU.

The need for both doctors and CMs will shoot up.

Right now in SWG, a doc is a glorified buff dispenser (or a bot). Everyone pretty much self heals with Stim B's and uber templates.

it is hard to be demoted from a vending machine.

That's a naive statement. I happen to heal plenty of times in the game.

Nobody is saying our role isn't going to change, we're saying we're losing our shirts from the crafting angle, which is true.

And not all docs are buff dispensers either. I've been a MD for a very long time and rarely buff unless the mood (or necessity strikes me). Statements like this are stereotypical. Many of us can roleplay the profession just fine as it stands....

The need for doctors and CMs IS going to shoot up, but please tell me how we are going to NOT be glorified ambulances, the way clerics and healers are in EQ and WOW...

It IS a demotion. Before we could heal, buff, craft, and sell. Now we're nothing more than glorified band aid dispensers...

Message Edited by TarMangani on 03-21-2005 09:22 AM





I realize emotions and opinions differ regarding the changes to the doc profession. As a non-crafting doc, I can only sympathize, rather than empathize, with some of the docs out there.

I also realize the game is not RL, but in RL, what doctors make their own medicine? Maybe decades/centuries ago, but now, medicine crafting is done by companies that specialize in it.

This change also makes players more interdependant, which is something SOE has been shooting for for some time now. Change sucks, but it only takes some getting used to.



Rimy the Shrubber

XFire userid = i8theworm


"It is better to sit in silence and appear ignorant, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain

TarMangani
Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:35 am
#31






I8TheWorm wrote:
I also realize the game is not RL, but in RL, what doctors make their own medicine? Maybe decades/centuries ago, but now, medicine crafting is done by companies that specialize in it.

This change also makes players more interdependant, which is something SOE has been shooting for for some time now. Change sucks, but it only takes some getting used to.




The argument is simple. Before we could do a lot, now we're nothing more than glorified ambulances, just like in WOW and EQ.


And please tell me in what way, under the current system, players are not dependent on doctors...


Change sucks, but so does losing 150 million in credits.


For the crafting docs, it's like saying "sexual assaultsucks, but you get past it..."





Message Edited by TarMangani on 03-21-2005 09:36 AM

Message Edited by TarMangani on 03-21-2005 09:37 AM



JEYHREL FOXAUMER
Iconic Profession Nomad
Because sometimes being ruthless just isn't good enough...
Aspraven
Iconic Trader or soon to be cancelled account
Saving you money so you'll give more of it to me...
Vendors: 200, -3200, SUNS Mall, Kor Mesa, Corellia



Traigus
Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:51 am
#32



Marrow1 wrote:


Traigus wrote:


TarMangani wrote:


MorvenDee wrote:
I think doctors will be needed as healers in and around battles, like priest classes in fantasy games.


Sure, but after being able to do that already, plus craft, it's a demotion...




Not really, no.

Nobody needs you to heall now... They are gonna need a lot of healers after the CU.

The need for both doctors and CMs will shoot up.

Right now in SWG, a doc is a glorified buff dispenser (or a bot). Everyone pretty much self heals with Stim B's and uber templates.

it is hard to be demoted from a vending machine.

-T

I dont really get where people say "docs are not needed to heal today". Every night I log in someone wants me to either roll with them pvping or go down the DWB, NS hunting, or some such thing. I all I got is healing (doc/cm) so it isn't for my marksman skills.

If all you are T is a vending machine it is because that is what you have made of your toon.

Yes, others will need more healing after the CU but that kind of healing is best served by CM, not doc.







No, I never buffed at starports, I was never a bulk crafter doc either.

If you go out and look, you will only see docs healing people they already know. All the current uber templates include only Novice medic, for Uber stim Bs. It is the way the game is currently being played. Nobody NEEDS us. You may have friends that WANT you... that's something else. Currrently, the only needed part of Doc are buffs, and 12 point crafting to make the best stim Bs to sell. it is worse for CM sicne tey got nerfed back to the stone age.. .they don't even have buffs ore saleable (to other people) stims.


There are plenty of things I don't like about the new system... I'm not a RAH RAH guy here... But you really need to step back and see how busted doc in now, a lot of you think its fine... not even close. A lot of the changes make a lot more sense if you can step back and see how it is all busted to hell (all the healing and combat together)it all is (though I still don't agree with a lot of the changes).

System-wise the docs pretty much make out well.

The largest screwjob we face is our massive investments of cash (and we are not alone here... Just about all gear related to combat will be converted... all weapons, armor, SEAs etc. are gonna be hit hard. they ahve to automate the conversion. The millions someone paid for a small increase in weapon stats may poof away to a gun with the same stats as soemone that paid less (but still a lot) for a different high end gun. I don't know any more on this then that. Overall, the economy is gonna get pounded.

-T

-T



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"We've got a blind date with destiny -- and it looks like she ordered the lobster."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I8TheWorm
Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:56 am
#33



TarMangani wrote:


I8TheWorm wrote:
I also realize the game is not RL, but in RL, what doctors make their own medicine? Maybe decades/centuries ago, but now, medicine crafting is done by companies that specialize in it.

This change also makes players more interdependant, which is something SOE has been shooting for for some time now. Change sucks, but it only takes some getting used to.

The argument is simple. Before we could do a lot, now we're nothing more than glorified ambulances, just like in WOW and EQ.

And please tell me in what way, under the current system, players are not dependent on doctors...

Change sucks, but so does losing 150 million in credits.

For the crafting docs, it's like saying "sexual assault sucks, but you get past it..."


Message Edited by TarMangani on 03-21-2005 09:36 AM

Message Edited by TarMangani on 03-21-2005 09:37 AM





The question isn't wether or not players are dependant on docs. Rather, it's wether or not docs are dependant on other players. It's very possible to be a doc and never need any other players ingame, except for bivoli purchases once in a while.

Try to see the big picture, not just what's happening to you...



Rimy the Shrubber

XFire userid = i8theworm


"It is better to sit in silence and appear ignorant, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain

Giftmacher
Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:02 am
#34








I8TheWorm wrote:


I wasn't here before buffs, so I don't know what kind of tips docs recieved for stateheals/rez's in combat groups






I hate to tell you, but nothing what-so-ever. Think of the money you made as a medic and you're there.


Gift.
TarMangani
Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:38 am
#35






Traigus wrote:
If you go out and look, you will only see docs healing people they already know. All the current uber templates include only Novice medic, for Uber stim Bs. It is the way the game is currently being played. Nobody NEEDS us. You may have friends that WANT you... that's something else. Currrently, the only needed part of Doc are buffs, and 12 point crafting to make the best stim Bs to sell. it is worse for CM sicne tey got nerfed back to the stone age.. .they don't even have buffs ore saleable (to other people) stims.


There are plenty of things I don't like about the new system... I'm not a RAH RAH guy here... But you really need to step back and see how busted doc in now, a lot of you think its fine... not even close. A lot of the changes make a lot more sense if you can step back and see how it is all busted to hell (all the healing and combat together)it all is (though I still don't agree with a lot of the changes).

System-wise the docs pretty much make out well.

The largest screwjob we face is our massive investments of cash (and we are not alone here... Just about all gear related to combat will be converted... all weapons, armor, SEAs etc. are gonna be hit hard. they ahve to automate the conversion. The millions someone paid for a small increase in weapon stats may poof away to a gun with the same stats as soemone that paid less (but still a lot) for a different high end gun. I don't know any more on this then that. Overall, the economy is gonna get pounded.




If you go out and look, you will only see docs healing people they already know.


Until you go out to every server and every starport, you can't make a watered down, generalized statement like this. There are many of us that heal continuously, and strangers to boot.


Nobody NEEDS us. You may have friends that WANT you... that's something else. Currrently, the only needed part of Doc are buffs, and 12 point crafting to make the best stim Bs to sell


Again, NAIVE. Stop stereotyping man! We do heal and there are those that need us. The only aspect where your statements fit is within the average group players don't need us and that's because the buffs are strong enough they don't take damage. However, for the Master Doctors, we still have a role in combat in the higher level dungeons. DWB, Corvette, even the Warren, I've had my hands full healing players. Master Doctors = Masters of other elite professions healing.


I'm not a RAH RAH guy here... But you really need to step back and see how busted doc in now, a lot of you think its fine... not even close.


Please...There is NOTHING busted about the doc profession. The only thing that is wrong is the buffs are too strong. They could take leave the HAM alone and simply reduce the strength of buffs to 20% (per stat) and we'd be just fine. Where else are we busted?


The doctor profession is taking up the rear end because we're losing our variety and being relegated to nothing more than walking ambulances...





JEYHREL FOXAUMER
Iconic Profession Nomad
Because sometimes being ruthless just isn't good enough...
Aspraven
Iconic Trader or soon to be cancelled account
Saving you money so you'll give more of it to me...
Vendors: 200, -3200, SUNS Mall, Kor Mesa, Corellia



TarMangani
Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:49 am
#36






I8TheWorm wrote:

The question isn't wether or not players are dependant on docs. Rather, it's wether or not docs are dependant on other players. It's very possible to be a doc and never need any other players ingame, except for bivoli purchases once in a while.

Try to see the big picture, not just what's happening to you...




I see the big picture...


You say a doc may never need any other players in the game, but ONLY if that doctor is also a merchant, combat profession, artisian and scout. Not every profession is like this, but can't other players also be independent if they gather enough professions to themselves?


So tell me, if I am nothing more than a Master Medic, Master Doc, how am I not interdependent on a merchant to sell my stuff, an artisian to gather my resources, and a ranger to gather my organic resources?


What's more, for those docs who also become BE, even if they have novice scout and novice artisian they can gather resources, so how exactly are doctors going to be more dependent after the CU?


Regarding "not just what's happening to you..." I've acknowledged that the healing aspect of docs makes sense, however have also stated time and again it relegates us to "walking ambulances" just like EQ and WOW.


Losing the crafting diminishes the doctor profession, it doesn't increase it, because we can already heal...


So please tell me how I'm only seeing things as they pertain to me...




JEYHREL FOXAUMER
Iconic Profession Nomad
Because sometimes being ruthless just isn't good enough...
Aspraven
Iconic Trader or soon to be cancelled account
Saving you money so you'll give more of it to me...
Vendors: 200, -3200, SUNS Mall, Kor Mesa, Corellia



I8TheWorm
Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:54 am
#37



TarMangani wrote:


I8TheWorm wrote:

The question isn't wether or not players are dependant on docs. Rather, it's wether or not docs are dependant on other players. It's very possible to be a doc and never need any other players ingame, except for bivoli purchases once in a while.

Try to see the big picture, not just what's happening to you...

I see the big picture...

You say a doc may never need any other players in the game, but ONLY if that doctor is also a merchant, combat profession, artisian and scout. Not every profession is like this, but can't other players also be independent if they gather enough professions to themselves?

So tell me, if I am nothing more than a Master Medic, Master Doc, how am I not interdependent on a merchant to sell my stuff, an artisian to gather my resources, and a ranger to gather my organic resources?

What's more, for those docs who also become BE, even if they have novice scout and novice artisian they can gather resources, so how exactly are doctors going to be more dependent after the CU?

Regarding "not just what's happening to you..." I've acknowledged that the healing aspect of docs makes sense, however have also stated time and again it relegates us to "walking ambulances" just like EQ and WOW.

Losing the crafting diminishes the doctor profession, it doesn't increase it, because we can already heal...

So please tell me how I'm only seeing things as they pertain to me...






You said it yourself. You could be independant as a crafting doc by only using your crafted buffpacks to buff. Also, there are docs who have merchant in their templates, making them extremely independant.

Again, losing crafting doesn't diminish the doc profession at all. You can still be a doc AND craft by picking up (some of?) BE. And when the CU hits, you only have to click a couple of times to do it.

The choice is really yours, but you're going to have to make one. History proves that complaint threads don't seem to sway the devs at all.



Rimy the Shrubber

XFire userid = i8theworm


"It is better to sit in silence and appear ignorant, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain

Oback
Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:00 am
#38

HEAL PEOPLES WOUNDS!!!! what an idea!



pikesman

master commando

Rebel till the end
Giftmacher
Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:14 am
#39








I8TheWorm wrote:

The choice is really yours, but you're going to have to make one. History proves that complaint threads don't seem to sway the devs at all.


LOL So there is a cynic in you after all? Seriously though complaint threads do get listened to, ub3r buffs aregoing because of it to name one... What we really need is a bit of feed back from the devs, people will take a lot more upheaval with a little explanation, the main problem I have right now is there seems little rhyme or reason to a good number of the changes put on the table.


Gift.







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