Doctor Archive
Thread: What in God's Name?
Songe wrote:
bioshock wrote:
First of all, 6k is not underestimating the value of my service. I make a 60% profit selling buffs at 6k. What I refuse to do, is -overestimate- the value of my service. Thus "underestimating the value of my service" is not, as you say, a "problem". You can try to "spin" all you want - it doesn't change the truth.How can you tell that you are not underestimating the value of your service, then tell others that they are overestimating it? This isn't very objective.
Fact is, people pay willingly 10k for buffs, so it's not hard to think that people selling buffs at 10k are closer to the market price than you are, and that you are such underestimating your buffs. Furthermore, overpricers are not really a problem, because everyone is free to go to someone who charges less, but underpricers on the contrary attract customers at the expense of the other docs who charge the 'market price', which devaluates the profession eventually, because in average people pay less for their buffs. Or are you saying that seeing the average cost of buff decrease and thus the value of the doc profession decrease isn't a problem for you?
How can I tell? Because there are metrics to compare against. That is a far more objective approach then, "well people will pay X that so that must be the value".
People will pay that only because they have come to expect that they must, not because they felt that anything less was "too little". When doctors sold buffs for 6k, you didn't have everyone in line saying, "Man that is SOOOO CHEAP! You should charge 10k!". It didn't happen that way. Now that the going rate is 8k or 10k, you don't have people in line saying "Man that is SOO CHEAP! You should be charging 15k!". It's not happening, yet if the price is allowed to climb to 15k, then you will still be using the same argument you are using today, but with the number changed.
And that IS subjective.
As for your statement that, "overpricers are not really a problem, because everyone is free to go to someone who charges less" - that is not true. You are assuming that there will be someone who charges less, or that the people who feel they are being gouged will be able to find someone charging less. But that's not a given.
Another assumption you are making, is that those who are "charging less" are in fact charging less "enough" - which is also not a given. If overchargers do eventually push the price up to 15k, then that "someone who charges less" will likely be charging 10k. Yes, techinally the person needing the buff might still be able to find a buff which "costs less", but even that "costs less" buff will STILL be overpriced. So the patient is still screwed. Even if your logic was valid, your assumptions aren't.
"but underpricers on the contrary attract customers at the expense of the other docs who charge the 'market price', which devaluates the profession eventually" - I've already addressed this, but just to reiterate: it's total BS. There aren't enough "underpricers" to devalue the profession. If there were, you might have a point, but there aren't so you don't.
"Or are you saying that seeing the average cost of buff decrease and thus the value of the doc profession decrease isn't a problem for you?" - Allow me to be crystal clear on this: I AM ABSOLUTELY SAYING THAT THIS IS -NOT- A PROBLEM FOR ME.
A) If the average cost of buffs does decrease - this IS NOT A DEVALUATION OF THE PROFESSION - despite your continued attempts to characterize it as such.
B) If the average cost of buffs does decrease - fine with me, I already charge less than the average cost of buffs.
I charge a price based upon my costs. I do not charge a price based upon some vague and nebulous notion of "the value of the profession". I do not feel that the profession has a "value which is deterimined by the price of buffs". You keep acting as though the entire value of the profession is tied to buff prices and if the price of buffs goes down, thus goes down the value of the profession - as though we should all somehow feel "bad" about our "poor profession" if buff prices don't keep rising.
Horsesh*t.
bioshock wrote:
I AM ABSOLUTELY SAYING THAT THIS IS -NOT- A PROBLEM FOR ME.
The problem, as someone else stated in another thread, is that you judge everything according to your point of view. Open up a bit, and ask around to the other docs if they appreciate seeing someone undercut them.
As others have said charge whatever you want for your buffs and don't be concerned about what others are charging. There are always enough people around wanting buffs so there is enough to go around. If they say well "so and so only charges this much" tell them to go have that person buff them then.
Especially if you're on a planet like Endor you can run one mission for 11k credits. Takes a whoopin ten minutes max for them to make the money back from what I charge which is 10k. I never advertise that I'm selling buffs and never put my Doc tag up so I only buff when someone asks me and if they don't like the price then they don't have to buy the service.
Others can and should do it for free because for all anyone knows maybe that makes them feel really good about themselves and that they are helping others. I really don't believe that they affect how much money you can make. If I can get by without ever once advertising and never putting my Doc flag up then surely someone advertising it should be able to get by and I always get 10k for my buffs if I ask for it. Again if someone complains that so and so does it cheaper then tell them to have them do it......more than likely all that will happen is a bit of grumbling but they'll pay you what you ask for the buffs because they won't want to hasstle with it so that extra money you're charging suddenly loses it's importance to them.....this has been my experience anyway.
How do you know why I am talking? How can you assume to know what I am thinking? You can't. I sell my buff packs at a price I feel is fair considering their stats and theprice of some resources and knowing that people can still make a 100% profit reselling buffs if they want to. After that, it does bother me to see people who can get 1 million in 4 hours running missions accusing docs of overpricing when they are making a third of that in an evening selling buffs at 10k, and it does bother me even more whenpeople who have the same profession contribute in decreasing the profits of the profession as a whole by selling buffs for almost nothing. It's not a question of having a set price or anything... but of letting docs make enough profit to make it still worthwhile to sell buffs instead of running 20k missions, which is not the case when you make barely 3k of profit per set of buff.
Message Edited by Songe on 04-30-2004 05:40 PM
My statement was based on this comment.
Unstable1 wrote:
let me explain songe's interest in this: i buy her buff paks cause she makes the best ones on the server and my policy is only to sell the best buffs possible. if another doctor is charging 4k for buffs (effectively at my cost) I can't afford to buy her buffs. she loses a customer. i enjoy buffing, which some people may find crazy. i like the interaction; its a welcome break from hunting. but i can't do it at a loss. docs who sell at a tiny markup ARE griefing other docs. how do i know this? cause i do not charge a set price. i only ask people to pay what they feel te buffs are worth. my average tip is 10k. THAT is the value people have associated with the service. i get much higher tips all the time, and i get much lower tips every once in awhile. got two sub-1000cr tips yesterday, but several 15k+ ones. i'm sure it all works out.
if you are sitting there selling 4k buffs to try and hurt my business, and face it, if the market values buffs at 10k, and you are selling them for 4k while someone else is asking the market rate, you ARE griefing that doc. be real, you aren't trying to be nice to the customers, you are trying to hurt the other doc's business. and not only are you hurting that doc, you are hurting the crafter that doc buys from.
whoa whoa whoa.... i was in NO way speaking FOR songe... its simply that i am one of her customers and was attempting to demonstrate how griefing hurts more than just the other doc sitting across from you.
i buffed for like 600k cr today... of course, it cost me half that. i coulda run what, 20 Janta missions to make the same amount in probably 2.5hrs (half the time) at a cost of what? one set of buffs for myself? 4k?
maybe i'm stupid for selling buffs in the first place.
of course, i'm still getting around 10k per.... today was good though, i had a lot of repeat customers and those guys usually tip more. had several 20k tips. if you are selling buffs at 6k for what? 2k profit per buff, i've got to ask why bother? i'm lucky enough to have a group of customers who seek me out and are very supportive.
wanna talk about market value? here's a conversation i had today with someone:
them "how much for buffs"
me "whatever you feel they are worth"
them "9k ok?"
me "of course, i have no set price"
after the buffs begin:
them "i tipped you another 1k, these are great buffs, they're worth 10k at least"
if that isn't the market talking, i don't know what is.
It is "market value" because in his mind, about 10k is the going rate, because most doctors charge that.
Is it market value? No.
New doctors see other doctors doing that, so they do it.
I seriously doubt most doctors buffing even take into consideration their cost, they just charge what others do.
Songe wrote:
Finally, you say yourself that you don't make money selling buffs, good for you, but you should have a bit more respect for your fellow docs who do depend on buff sales to make money.
What do I really care about others doctors income prospects? Doctors that depend on buff sales as their means of income aren't really adding anything special in the game, by and large they aren't more than bots. This does not account for what a doctor does outside of buffing. Buffs have become a commodity item in this game now and it hardly matters who does them.
If a doctor is finding it hard to make a worthwhile amount of money selling buffs, honestly, is that in anyway my problem or something for me to concern myself with? I am not their keepers. Really, it's just one less doctor in the marketplace to compete with. Enough doctors leave the profession and the prices will inevitably go up, once the price goes up enough, new doctors come in to fill in the demand, and the cycle continues on. I actually view this as a wonderful excercise in free-market economics. Creative destruction at its finest.
I have made a habit of extending courtesy to people until circumstances dictate otherwise but this notion of freely giving respect unearned has and will continue to puzzle me. Why should I respect other docs? Have other doctors done something so significant that I owe deference to any and all?
Now I'm sure this comes off as a super harsh way of viewing things, but economics is amoral, and objectively there is no right or wrong. Any other viewpoints places subjective judgment calls on others behaviors and while I will make my own, I am just as happy to keep them to myself.
The point of my post is basically if you want to sympathize for the cause of the poor doc who has a hard time making money, good for you, tip them some cash, give them some price breaks on their sales, subsidize them. But to ask others to share in your views is more than I am willing to concede.
Songe wrote:
You're right, paying 15 dollars per month gives people the right to behave selfishly. I guess it's what I will have learned from this thread.
Enlighten me oh opinionated one, how are they playing selfishly? Its your posts of entitlement that come across as selfishness.
I can not believe you still have this opinion.
DOCTORS ARE NOT ENTITLED TO MAKE A PROFIT FROM SELLING BUFFS.
That is not what the profession is about.
It isn't selfishness, griefing, or any other word you want to use for it.
They are playing the game the way that THEY want to. Its their account, their product, their time, their service, their profit or lack thereof, and their money.
Honestly, you make me want to go take my janta buff sets and buff ppl for FREE to prove you wrong.
The best part is, the original poster STILL MADE 500K.
That's right, the poster went to another spot in the galaxy :gasp: and sold their buff sets and amassed a 500,000 credit profit.
EVEN IF the guy selling for 2k would have followed her around and sold his buffs right next to her IT ISN'T GRIEFING its competition.
This is a MARKET PLACE. Competition drives down prices, and its good for EVERYONE INVOLVED.
Do you hold this opinion in YOUR EVERYDAY LIFE?
I assume so; you'd rather pay 50,000 for an H2 than 10,000; because the "normal" price is 50,000 and you'd hate to contribute to that damn selfish car dealer who is selling them for only 10,000! He might run the other 500 MILLION CAR LOTS ON EARTH out of business.
/sigh
This is the most ridiculous thread I have ever read.
It boils down to these simple things, which will not change:
1. You do not have the right to tell someone how to play their character, it is their REAL money they pay to play. As long as they abide by the EULA, they are free to play this game how they see fit, not how you do.
2. This game is based on a player driven economy; that means every player. NO ONE has the right to tell anybody what price is fair/unfair/high/too high/low/retarded for any product or service THAT THEY OFFER.
3. It is 100% absolutely unreasonable to assume that if 5% of the doctors playing this game gave buffs away for FREE that it would have any noticeable impact on the profits of the other doctors who buff for money. There are simply too many OTHER CHARACTERS who need buffs.
4. The only people who complain about doctors buffing for low amounts of money are people who are greedy, and think that they "deserve" a certain profit for their service, and are somehow "entitled" to it because of something they intrepret as market value. There is no market value in this economy, a product is worth whatever someone will pay at the time its being sold, period.