Doctor Archive
Thread: What in God's Name?
DarthXanthic
Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:24 am
#27
There are plenty of places to sell buffs in this galaxy, if you don't like a doctors price, go somewhere else, as this poster did.
YOU are not the person to tell another doctor what to do with their product.
Unstable1
Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:28 am
#28
Hear hear, Songe!
Some of us Docs don't have a lot of cash, or like to PvP (which costs a FORTUNE in armor, weapons, food/drink, you name it), and selling buffs is one of our primary means of earning money.
Docs who give away buffs because they don't need the money are hurting docs who do. Hey, if you want to be generous, give ME the buff paks, or sell them to me ridiculously cheaply. I really try to be the best buffer I can be, don't charge a set price, always take bivoli, etc. I would appreciate your generousity as much as the guy you are buffing.
There are two ways to look at someone charging 2-4k a buff: either he's generous or he's a griefer. But its awfully hard to tell from my perspective.
-Unstable
tkm/doc
bioshock
Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:41 am
#29
Marrow1 wrote:
The economy has never been as rich as it is now on any server.
I think I would argue that the economy has never had as much inflation as it has now on your server.
Songe
Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:18 am
#30
relaxin wrote:
Songe, I think your first mistake is that anyone is at all obligated to make you feel good, whether it be your profession, your ingame financial situation, your life in general. No one has any reason to make your existence any easier other than yourself. That someone by chance actually does so is just kindness and should induce your gratuity. If you want to improve your situation, recognize that it will be you to do it, not the behavior of anyone else. You don't like how so-and-so handles his business, too bad unless you do something about it. Why whine about the situation? Does it make you feel any better? Remember that you will always find jerks in this life and that complaining is more likely to get your razzed than it will to induce better behavior.
Huh did you even read my posts? It's not at all my situation I am complaining about because, as I said, I don't sell buffs at all. I didn't even start the thread in the first place. I'm not whining (why does everyone blame people for whining anyway assoon as they don't agree with them? lol), but accusing people doing that kind of stuff of screwing up voluntarily the other docs. Are they allowed to? Absolutely. Will I go ahead and say that they are doing it out of kindness as they pretend and that what they do is right? No. They don't care about the others as long as it's profitable to them. Yes people are jerks, but is it a good reason to find them excuses becausemost people are that way? Sorry but I don't agree.
Finally, you say yourself that you don't make money selling buffs, good for you, but you should have a bit more respect for your fellow docs who do depend on buff sales to make money.
Message Edited by Songe on 04-30-2004 10:20 AM
bioshock
Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:53 am
#31
Songe wrote:
as they pretend and that what they do is right?
You are not my conscience. You do not have the right, NOR the ability to tell me the difference between right at wrong.
If you want to talk ethics (which is a perfectly acceptable subject for doctors to discuss) then:
I buff people at 6k each.
vs.
Say 2 other doctors who happen to be in the same area and are charging 10k each.
The other 2 doctors had a line as long as mine the whole time.
Who was hurt? Not the two doctors, since they had full lines the whole time. Not the patients since they got the buffs they needed. Not me since I made a very hefty profit.
Who was helped? The patients who got their buffs at a fair price. Me.
No one hurt, patients (the most important thing) and me both helped = RIGHT.
I'm not "pretending" it was right - I KNOW it was right. If you don't think it was, then YOU are the one with an inadequate grasp of ethics, NOT ME.
Now if the all the patients came to me, and the other doctors got nothing, that still doesn't make what I do wrong, because the other doctors have the option of dropping their price if they want. If their buffs are so expensive, and their costs are so high, that they can't compete with me - when I buy buffs off the shelf and still turn a 60% profit - then they are definately paying too much for buffs. It would not be fair or ethical for me to raise my prices, in turn screwing the patients, in order to prop up the business of a doctor who pays way too much for his buffs.
So, either the other doctors are paying way too much for their buffs, or they are charging way too much for their buffs. Either way it is NOT my fault, nor my responsibility.
Again, ethically I would still be RIGHT.
The bottom line of what we are really discussing is GREED. It's just that simple. If you want to argue that "greed is good" that's fine, then get on with it. Don't bother pretending that I'm injuring any other doctors, because we both know full well that's BS. As does everyone else who isn't allowing themselve to be ruled by greed and the desire to take advantage of their fellow man.
I'm not hurting other doctors by charging the prices I charge. If I hurt their -greed-, well....GOOD.
Songe
Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:11 am
#32
bioshock wrote:
I'm not hurting other doctors by charging the prices I charge. If I hurt their -greed-, well....GOOD.
Actually 6k is ok in my book, as you can still buy buff packs and make a profit at this price. I will never understand why people underestimate the value of their service so much but I guess it's your problem. Now I disagree with how you stample the 'greed' word on people who charge more. I won't discuss here why in my opinion it's perfectly normal to charge more. However, buffing people for 2k *is* hurting other doctors, as it is totally 1/ devaluating the profession, 2/ making it impossible for other docs to compete if they have to buy their buff packs. That, Sir, has nothing to do with greed. Of course, people will always call the ones who value their time a bit more 'greedy', I guess it's in the line of calling whiners peopleyou don't agree with.
Message Edited by Songe on 04-30-2004 12:13 PM
Message Edited by Songe on 04-30-2004 12:14 PM
Ariven
Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:18 am
#33
Songe wrote:
NullTensor wrote:
I don't think people are stupid, if they see someone selling buffs at 2k and someone else at 10k, I highly doubt they will go see the 10k guy. Free market is something, undercutting so much that others have no chance of selling their products is another.
I was on one of the outer worlds and ended up getting doctor TEF and people started asking me to buff them. I don't buff for pay normally, just free to guildmates and the random rare buff.. I find them a hassle when I am likely to miss my shuttle when going from point A to point B. Well to cover my desires to NOT buff I charge higher than normal, and was charging 15k a buff and had 6 people in line (sigh, missed my shuttle), and had a doc come up and berate my customers because he was offering FREE buffs.
Not a single one of my customers walked away from me to get a free buff.. each one paid my 15k and were nice and polite at the same time.
The difference, I think, is I was nice to them and didn't call them names.
Unstable1
Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:24 am
#35
let me explain songe's interest in this: i buy her buff paks cause she makes the best ones on the server and my policy is only to sell the best buffs possible. if another doctor is charging 4k for buffs (effectively at my cost) I can't afford to buy her buffs. she loses a customer. i enjoy buffing, which some people may find crazy. i like the interaction; its a welcome break from hunting. but i can't do it at a loss. docs who sell at a tiny markup ARE griefing other docs. how do i know this? cause i do not charge a set price. i only ask people to pay what they feel te buffs are worth. my average tip is 10k. THAT is the value people have associated with the service. i get much higher tips all the time, and i get much lower tips every once in awhile. got two sub-1000cr tips yesterday, but several 15k+ ones. i'm sure it all works out.
if you are sitting there selling 4k buffs to try and hurt my business, and face it, if the market values buffs at 10k, and you are selling them for 4k while someone else is asking the market rate, you ARE griefing that doc. be real, you aren't trying to be nice to the customers, you are trying to hurt the other doc's business. and not only are you hurting that doc, you are hurting the crafter that doc buys from.
bioshock
Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:27 am
#36
Songe wrote:
bioshock wrote:
I'm not hurting other doctors by charging the prices I charge. If I hurt their -greed-, well....GOOD.Actually 6k is ok in my book, as you can still buy buff packs and make a profit at this price. I will never understand why people underestimate the value of their service so much but I guess it's your problem. Now I disagree with how you stample the 'greed' word on them. Buffing people for 2k *is* hurting other doctors, as it is totally 1/ devaluating the profession, 2/ making it impossible for other docs to compete if they have to buy their buff packs. That, Sir, has nothing to do with greed. Of course, people will always call the ones who value their time a bit more 'greedy', I guess it's in the line of calling whiners people you don't agree with.Message Edited by Songe on 04-30-2004 12:13 PM
First of all, 6k is not underestimating the value of my service. I make a 60% profit selling buffs at 6k. What I refuse to do, is -overestimate- the value of my service. Thus "underestimating the value of my service" is not, as you say, a "problem". You can try to "spin" all you want - it doesn't change the truth.
The statement about "stampling" (
) greed doesn't really fit the context of the statements before or after it, so I don't really have any idea what you might be referring to so I'll just let that one alone.Now, as for the "buffing for 2k hurts other doctors": Nonsense.
Those who are "buffing for 2k" or "buffing for really low prices or even for free" are not devaluing the profession. IF there were a SIGNIFICANT number of people who were doing it, then it might, but there are not so it doesn't. Nor are there enough of such to in ANY WAY make it "impossible" for any other doctor to do do ANYTHING - even compete as a buff seller.
Reality is what it is.
Unstable1
Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:27 am
#37
darthxanthic, your loss leaders are definitely not tools designed to get customers to come BACK to the store, they are designed to get them IN the store in the first place. i guarantee you that Best Buy has no expectation that even with loss leaders a customer represents a non-profitable transaction to them. they fully expect that the profit the store makes on the OTHER stuff that customer buys will cover the cost on the loss leader.
its like me taking bivoli. i don't charge extra for it. its my loss leader. i always offer my best possible buff, and i expect that the profit on the buff pak sale covers the loss on the bivoli.
bioshock
Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:49 am
#38
Unstable1 wrote:
THAT is the value people have associated with the service.
Actually, I think that is the value that people "have been led to" associate with the service. If every doc out there buffed for 1k, and you came along and said "tip what you feel it's worth", you'd be getting tips for 1500 not 10k. If every doc buffed for 20k, you'd be getting tips for 25k.
Most people are basically good and nice. If the "going rate" is 8k and you say "tip your conscience" then most will in fact tip over 8k.
But the going rate is not determined by those people, the going rate is determined by us, the doctors. We choose the going rate which they then exceed out of kindness.
And the going rate is mostly too high if you ask me. I make a 60% profit selling at 6k. You say you pay 4k per buff set for your buffs, so at 6k you would only turn a 30% profit. If I make a 60% profit, I certainly couldn't in good conscience tell you you shouldn't. Yet at 8k you are up to 100% profit (
yes I know the flaw in what I just said...do you?).In any case, the determination of how much profit is enough to satisfy you is yours alone. I make 60% and that's good enough for me. I won't be bullied or guilted into changing my determination of right and fair - I will decide that for myself, and I -will- act upon it.
Message Edited by bioshock on 04-30-2004 09:50 AM
Songe
Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:55 am
#39
bioshock wrote:
First of all, 6k is not underestimating the value of my service. I make a 60% profit selling buffs at 6k. What I refuse to do, is -overestimate- the value of my service. Thus "underestimating the value of my service" is not, as you say, a "problem". You can try to "spin" all you want - it doesn't change the truth.
How can you tell that you are not underestimating the value of your service, then tell others that they are overestimating it? This isn't very objective.
Fact is, people pay willingly 10k for buffs, so it's not hard to think that people selling buffs at 10k are closer to the market price than you are, and that you are such underestimating your buffs. Furthermore, overpricers are not really a problem, because everyone is free to go to someone who charges less, but underpricers on the contrary attract customers at the expense of the other docs who charge the 'market price', which devaluates the profession eventually, because in average people pay less for their buffs. Or are you saying that seeing the average cost of buff decrease and thus the value of the doc profession decrease isn't a problem for you?
Edit : nevermind, obviously you just don't care if the doc profession isn't valuable for other players.
Message Edited by Songe on 04-30-2004 12:57 PM